Sheesh, what passes for "Christian" these days

[jasoncran]

i can see why ,pard, you said that, sheesh

seekandlisten fighting gives me an adreline rush, everytime i hit the mat for hours afterword i cant eat.

is that ok to you as that is a"natural" high, yet some will be a hurtin some times me or others.

 

[handy]

Handy, I think I remember you talking about that boy before. He is the guy who works at the grocery store, right? I feel that is a very responsible thing for you to do. Not only the whole "wait 'till you are 18" but also understanding that often times love does not car about the boundaries of age. My parents are hostile to me dating someone even two years younger than me! (Need I remind them that they are 3 years apart? :rolling )

Thank you, Pard. Yes, it is that guy. And, after the conversation I had with him back then, he and I have become quite good friends. He's truly a decent and honorable guy! I don't think age differences mean much, as long as both are willing to wait until the proper time.

 

[jasoncran]

pard, my wife is 11 yrs my senior. she has kids almost my age.

 

[Pard]

Ya, I got nothing wrong with ten years or even more. I was referring to that pornstar lady shaking up with that 90 year old. I forget both of their names.

 

[jasoncran]

Ya, I got nothing wrong with ten years or even more. I was referring to that pornstar lady shaking up with that 90 year old. I forget both of their names.

anna nicole smith is that pornstar/model.

 

[watchman F]

[quote="watchman F":342gnv4f][Sooo, hmmm, you think christian should be going around getting stoned?

I really want to do a psychological analysis on why so many Chrsitians I've met always flop to extremes on topics.

This post was not in reference to anything you said

[quote:342gnv4f]No issue is black and white.

The bible is indeed black and white you are either all the way in or you are not in at all.

What I'm saying is that claiming marijuana is some great sin, in a culture of Christians that use both Caffeine, Nicotine, and food supplements. Is hypocritical.

[/quote:342gnv4f][/quote:342gnv4f]I agree we should cut out the caffeine, nicotine, and over eating. We should be willing to give up anything and everything for Christ.

 

[watchman F]

Yeah, seekandlisten, ...how to put it?

I mean, I'd hardly go onto a Buddhist site and start telling the Buddhist how to be better Buddhists. It does seem a bit...officious.

I have no problem with a Christian believing what a Christian believes. The unity in beliefs among the different sections of Christians seems to vary though. I agree with Jesus teaching and I read the Bible. There are just certain beliefs that, I think anyways, go against what Jesus taught or are added on links made that aren't there. That is neither here nor there but I don't think people should come off like they know who is and isn't getting into 'heaven' when the Bible, which you believe is the literal Word of God, doesn't support that concept. The Bible speaks of ways to recognize the 'spirit'.

I don't mean to offend but I enjoy conversations in regards to religions but I my beliefs are for me and that is all. While I may express my opinions that is all it is, my opinion.

cheers

The bible does tell us we can know who is getting in to Heaven and who is not. By the fruit they produce.

 

[watchman F]

There was still premarital sex and it is even written the "we are to have many partners before we find the one ordained by god" (excuse me if I don't remember the exact location of this verse).

The reason you don't remember the exact verse is probably because it isn't there. I've never heard of this one before, but I assume it's something like "God helps those who help themselves". A lot of people think that's in the Bible too, but it isn't. Neither is "Those whom God loves die young" nor a number of other things that people think are there.

Right nowhere in the bible does it suport pre-marital sex. It is out right forbidden

Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Any sex act outside of that between a man and his wife is sin.

 

[l'Chante]

What about Christians who smoke pot? Are they fake?

I would say yes

If I was to be wholly candid, Then I am a fake Christian...I smoke from time to time :verysad :verysad :verysad

Oats, if you want to know if something is right or wrong, ask yourself the question: What would I do if Jesus was standing right next to me? If it is okay to smoke weed, you would’ve offered Him some, right? But you won’t. Why? Because Jesus wouldn’t get high. Why? Because it is wrong.

I hope this helps, Sweetie. ;)

 

[GojuBrian]

A local minister was just busted in a local prostitution sting with alot of other guys.

Pray for his family and that church.

 

[l'Chante]

A local minister was just busted in a local prostitution sting with alot of other guys.

Pray for his family and that church.

Will do.

 

[Neo]

Ok,we want to talk about what is Christian right? I look at Christians today (of which many I have disassociated myself with) and see and very closed minded point of view. Christians were the fore runner in theological thought and spirituality. They were always seeking out to find the answers to god's creations. I don't see that now. Most people of the Christian faith are so against change that they are willing to cast out family and friends because they do not agree with them. This used to be a faith for all people and a faith that was constantly looking for answers, but now it seems like it is more of,"Well, we are comfortable where we are and we don't want anything else unless it makes what we think look right." You could be wrong. Everyone could be wrong. Faith in what you believe, no matter what it is, is what makes you a believer. It is not a church, a book, or a person that defines your religion. It is you. So, when you say "Sheesh, what passes for 'Christian' these days" you are not talking about your faith. You are talking about the faith of those people which may be different than yours. There is a very elitist mindset these days about Christianity and anyone who has anything different than the popular definitions is automatically cast out as being uninformed or needing more spiritual guidance. People are people and faith is faith. It is the only thing that we have that we can truly call our own. I think it is such a waste when people only have faith because they are afraid not to, so they agree with the status quo to the point to where there faith is no longer there own but everyone else's because they are afraid to be different. The fear of hell has been spread, and in my opinion, it has been cast wrongly. All we need is faith to go to heaven, or whatever you want to call it. We get so wrapped up in terminology that we forget what is truly important:what we believe to be true. If there was no threat of eternal damnation of not being Christian would you still believe as you do? Really let yourself dwell on that question and don't answer to be a "good christian". A lot of people would say no. That is there motivation for believing as they do. It is not because they truly believe in the what the church says. It is because they are afraid not to. It's "just in case" faith. I say malarchy. You may say that I am not a Christian and that is fine. Because, honestly, I look at a lot of people who claim to be Christian and say they are not because their faith is based on fear. The fear of the unknown. Jesus did not have that fear and that is what made him unique. In a time where fear was the driving factor of all faith he stood up and said, "I believe without fear". I believe without fear. You can tell me all day that I am going to hell because I do not agree with many things that are put forth by churches and all day long I will tell you that I do not believe in that hell. I do not fear the things that I do not believe and I refuse to believe them "just in case". I have real faith and whether you agree with me or not is irrelevant. I only try to open people's eyes that the world is not as cut and dry as what people make it out to be and neither is your faith. To answer you question: Not much.

 

[Caroline H]

There was still premarital sex and it is even written the "we are to have many partners before we find the one ordained by god" (excuse me if I don't remember the exact location of this verse).

Neo, did you happen to get that idea from the As Good As New "translation?" If so, I'm going to say this once,... any usage of that book here will not be tolerated as per:

3 - No active promotion of other Faiths is allowed:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Only scripture from accepted Christian bibles will be allowed to be posted on this board. The New World Translation is not considered Christian material on this site. Discussion about other scripture, documents, writings or material is acceptable but will not be permitted to be used as a basis of support within a debate or discussion.

All we need is faith to go to heaven, or whatever you want to call it. We get so wrapped up in terminology that we forget what is truly important:what we believe to be true.

Faith in what? Sounds to me like you hold to some sort of universalism as far as "fath" goes.

Because, honestly, I look at a lot of people who claim to be Christian and say they are not because their faith is based on fear. The fear of the unknown. Jesus did not have that fear and that is what made him unique. In a time where fear was the driving factor of all faith he stood up and said, "I believe without fear".

What does that even mean? Jesus did not have fear of the unknown? He is God's son, he knew exactly what he was here to do and he knew what the outcome of his actions would be. What do you mean he stood up and said "I believe without fear?"

 

[handy]

Neo, you seem to have faith in faith.

OK, many people do. What defines a specific faith is the object of the faith. The object of your faith seems to be faith and spirituality, and god, but not necessarily the God of the Bible.

Faith in faith and spirituality is a rather new age idea. It seems to be anchored in the philosophy that it truly doesn't matter what one believes as long as it promotes love and good will and the beliefs are sincerely held. Many times, adherents to such faith draw upon that which is "good" from many belief systems.

Not bad as far as religious philosophies go.

Just don't confuse it with Christianity. Christianity is specific to the Bible. Not just the teachings of Jesus, and not just the New Testament, but historic Christianity is based upon the whole of Scripture. Both Old and New Testaments, both the teachings of Jesus as well as the teachings of Paul, Peter, James, and John. All of these writings have been the basis of Christian doctrine going back long before Nicaea. I know that many like to try to claim that Nicaea is the "beginning" of church doctrine, but they aren't paying much attention to history when that claim is made. Nicaea was just a time to clarify and solidify what was common Christian doctrine from the many other thoughts that were being added over the 300 years since the time of the Apostles.

So, Neo, you are more than welcome to your beliefs and your spirituality. But, please, please, in the interest of just holding to the common definitions of well known words, please don't label what you believe as "Christian". Or, think that it's OK for you to define what Christianity is, and that your definition of Christianity is better than my definition. It matters not how either you or I define Christianity, because Christianity has been defined now for over 2000 years.

A year or so ago, there was a big buzz all over about the "man" who was having a baby. Well, a man having a baby would certainly be a miracle...however, there was never a man who had a baby. The truth of the matter was that a woman, who was taking hormones to deepen her voice and grow facial hair, but who also refused to have her ovaries and uterus removed had a baby. She wasn't a man, she had ovaries and a uterus, so by the very scientific definition of "man" and "woman", she was a woman.

But, everyone had a field day calling her a "man". Because she wanted to be a man. What was truth, that she was a woman, didn't count. Since she wanted to be a man, and since she underwent hormone treatments so that she could grow a beard, hey-presto-chango she is now to be considered a man.

I bring this up to point out how far we go to change very basic definitions of very basic words just to suit our purposes. However, changing definitions doesn't change truth. The truth is, no man had a baby. A woman did.

And, there is also what is truth about Christianity, that it is based upon what the Bible teaches. The Bible doesn't teach "faith in faith". It teaches faith in God, and the Bible reveals Who God is. Reject the Bible, and one reject what Christianity is.

One can come up with an amalgamation of certain Christian tenents, add some Buddhist philosophies to it, as well as some feel-good politically correct new age spirituality. One can reject all spirituality of all kind and just be an atheist. Or, one can be a Christian.

But, please, let us be honest in our words and our definitions of words. No, Neo, you are not a Christian. That doesn't mean you are not a nice person. It doesn't mean that you do not have valid opinions. It doesn't mean that you have nothing to add to the thoughts expressed here at this forum. It just means that you are not a Christian. I am a Christian. This does not mean that I am better than you. It does not mean that I am smarter or prettier than you. It just means that I hold to the tenants of a religion that has been around for 2000 years, all of the tenants, not just the ones that fall in line with modern political correctness.

So, when I kvetch about what is passing for "Christianity" today, I am speaking to other Christians about how far the Church is straying into the world. The other Christians here "get it". I understand that you non-Christians wont and that's OK. But, my thread was aimed more to be a discussion aimed to and for Christians. Perhaps I should have put it in "Talk and Advice" except that I wasn't asking for advice and I wasn't "talking" as much as kvetching. Besides, I don't mind non-Christians chiming in. I just would ask that non-Christian please keep in mind what Christianity is and what it is not.

 

[Neo]

I don't claim to be a Christian in the traditional sense at all, and I am glad to see that you are open to new ideas even though you don't agree with them. That is all that I ask. I actually got that little piece of scripture from my mother use is a devout southern baptist. It was a while ago and I believe she said it was in the OT. The next time I talk to her I will ask her where she found it. I was kind of spouting off a little bit because people have no idea how difficult it is to be different. Really, take it from my side. I get it from both atheists and orthodox followers, but what can I say, I am a glutton for punishment. I love theological debates because my views are so outside what is the realm of normality. And you are absolutely right about the Nicaean councils. People do mistake it with the birth of Christianity which it is not. It was the birth of the Roman Catholic Church. The first real organized Christian faith was put together about 200 yrs prior at the Church of Jerusalem and then spread north into Europe into the Roman empire which is what brought on the Nicaean councils.
I do not think that the Bible is completely false nor do I think it is completely irrelevant. I look at it as more of a historical record. I do not hold any book to be holy. The only thing that is holy is your faith. I also agree with you and disagree with you on your premise of my beliefs. I do believe that there is a god and it is different than what is preached in sunday school, but I also believe that there is a CORRECT god and not different interpretations of god. Every major religion has a different take on what god is. My own views are a little contradictory and that is still something that I am working on, but I do not believe in a diety with superhuman powers (pardon the text but I knew of no better way of saying it). To me god is not human nor never was so to put human qualities on it to me is false. It has no sex nor does it have human emotions. It operates of efficiency and uses physics and science as its tools for creation and destruction. There are holes in my theory and I will concede to them, but I am still in deep study to figure out what I believe is the true nature of god.
You may not be an elitist, but many are. I have turned the corner away from Christian doctrine and while that is something that is sad for me, it is also something that is liberating as well.
Going to the point about not having fear. I do not fear hell. I do not fear death. I do not fear someone telling me that I am wrong. A lot of Christians believe "just in case". They don't necessarily agree with everything, but just in case, they believe. That is what I am referring to. Ask yourself honestly, If the fear of hell was not present would you still believe like you do? That is an answer that only you can provide

 

[Vic C.]

Neo,

could you extend us the courtesy of breaking up your posts into paragraphs? It's hard to read and some people might skip over your posts.

Thanks.

 

[LostSoul]

My daughter went on a sleep-over last Sunday night. The girl she stayed with is from a supposedly Christian family. They don't go to church regularly, but every time my daughter has stayed there or she's come to our place, there have been discussions about what kind of music she can't listen to, or what kind of movies she is unable to watch. I was under the impression that her folks were pretty strict.

So, when I drop my daughter off, their eldest daughter who is 19, has her boyfriend laying across her lap. I was somewhat bothered by the fact that he just laid there, across this young woman's lap, without getting up, but wrote it off to bad manners. One would expect a gentleman, or even just a decent guy, to get up and off of the lap when two relative strangers, a woman and a young girl especially, come in.

When I picked my daughter up on Monday, we were driving home when she popped out with "----- says that James (the boyfriend) hits on me more than any of her friends."

OK, so THAT was a major conversation. Seems as though James is a jerk with a low-life sense of humor. My daughter handled it, but Mama Bear was still fairly angry.

Then later, she casually mentions how she was the first person up in the morning, and had to step carefully over James and the girlfriend as they were sleeping together on an air mattress in the middle of the living room floor.

Is it just me, or isn't it wildly inappropriate for people who claim to be Christians to have their unmarried daughter and her boyfriend sleep together in the middle of the living room when there are underage girls in the house? I mean, the parents were home...

I cannot even fathom allowing either of my children sleep with someone they are not married too, under my roof. But, especially if my underage daughter was entertaining an equally underage friend.

Again, is it just me? Or are they ANY standards of behaviors in the so-called "church" anymore? :bigfrown

I am in no place to judge as I am a believer who does not go to church outside of my recent calling to work in a church nursery. There is still sin in my life which I am very gradualy trying to work with God on cleaning up from but does that make me any less a sinner? No....so in essence I guess I am no more a Christian than many of these 'false' clamiers are.

Think the real questions that need to be asked here are:

How might our lives better serve as a reflection of God's love in order to help our brothers and sisters away from their sinful ways?

Even more so, are we attentive to the sin in our own lives and what steps are we taking in our faith to work on those as well?

While I can surely understand concern even real infuriation in this situation. Judgement is somehing that i try not to cast as it is something of an issue I have had with family members with similar practices to this or others that I find even more so offensive.....after all....Jesus sat and ate with murderers, tax colletors and theives without letting their sin corrupt Him. Is t not our task as believers to try to walk in His footsteps?

As hard as it is......prayer if nothing else may be the real solution here, other than perhaps not allowing a loved daughter to go sleep over at this family's house anymore especially if there are things going on that just simply cannot be agreed with.