Shekinah - The female side of God

[farouk]

God is Spirit. There is no gender. We are speaking about language here. Claudya? I thought you spoke German, yes? You, better than I, would know about masculine and feminine nouns, right?

Sparrowhawke: He is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Sparkey]

God is Spirit. There is no gender. We are speaking about language here. Claudya? I thought you spoke German, yes? You, better than I, would know about masculine and feminine nouns, right?

Sparrowhawke: He is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God is Spirit and fills all heaven and all earth. Are you saying that I should try to think of God under limit of personification? Personification is when you assign the qualities of a person to something that isn't human. God is not created. Our Father is the Creator. Yes, He does speak of Himself in masculine terms. He also uses feminine terms. For instance:

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!

English Standard Version (©2001)

Would you like me to insist that "He" should have called "Himself" a rooster there? I think no.

 

[Sparkey]

Right, there is no gender... then why would God need a female side?

Greetings Claudya,

You'll need to direct that particular question to the OP who made the title of the thread up. I'm not at all sure you could convince me that I've said that "God has (or needs) a 'female side'". Any more than you could convince me that I think of God as some big Man in the sky. Neither are true.

Cordially,
Sparrow

 

[Sparkey]

God exists. God exists before anything else. And by ‘anything else’, I mean everything that we see and observe on earth, in the skies with our telescopes, and under the seas with our cameras. This Altogether Other, the infinite-personal God of Judeo-Christianity created ‘from nothing’ everything that is ‘there’, including man in His image.

Suppose there is this Altogether Other who is omniscient in knowledge, omnipotent in power, and ultimately defined as 'LOVE", perfect in every way our minds can conceive of perfection. Eternal, from which there is no cause, always having been there. Then suppose He created ‘from nothing’ everything that now exists, including man and woman.

Now suppose, because He is infinite, everything else would be limited in contrast to His enough-ness, or infinite-ness. Man and woman are created as personal on the side of His personalness, yet finite as opposed to His infinite-ness. Would it be strange to think that this infinite, uncreated Personal Other, would not want to communicate to the created, limited personal to which He has created? To tell them of what He has done, the nature of the things around them, and something of Himself as their uncreated Creator? Of course, if this uncreated Personal Other were to communicate to this created personal, He would not exhaust Himself in His communication, but would tell her things that are true. He would not lie, for what would be the purpose?

It would also not be unexpected, if the uncreated Personal really cared for the created personal, to speak of things in a propositional nature; to communicate in the same way that the created personal communicates to other created personals. As a limited, finite reference point, the created personal if she began with herself, would not be able to know everything there is to know about everything if this uncreated Personal didn’t tell her those things. Of course, she wouldn’t know everything because that would make her God, wouldn’t it, but at minimum she would know those things that the uncreated Personal wanted her to know, and those things He wanted her to know would be true. Because He created the world she lives on, and the universe she lives in, He would also create in her a spirit of discovery; a rational mind to uncover other things about herself and the world around her. Her knowledge of those things would need to be in relation to Him; analogical to His knowledge though for them to be true to what is, and true to His creation of those things in the first place.

What we have in the above then, is exactly what the Judeo-Christian Scriptures, the Bible, claims for itself. It claims to be propositional revelation from the uncreated Personal Other to the created personal in verbalized form. God speaks, and we have His knowledge as non-created Personal, perfect and infinite, to tell us what He wants us to know as the created, finite personal.

(This thought and much of the text presented here was derived and or copied from Source: Francis A. Schaeffer, "He is There and He is not Silent," Tyndale House Publishers, Wheaton, IL, 1984).

 

[chessman]

If God has the feminine personification of a wife, does that mean when I (a husband) have an opinion and He tells me it's wrong, that I should just agree with Him, even though my opinion is right?

 

[JLB]

Our Father is the Creator. Yes, He does speak of Himself in masculine terms. He also uses feminine terms. For instance:

He shall be called Everlasting Father.

In this scripture, this is a reference to The Lord Jesus who is not called Everlasting Father at the present time, but shall be called Everlasting Father.

For Paul shares a great mystery with us -

31 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32

In this mystery we see -

The Man who leaves His Father and Mother - Christ

The wife - The Church

who are these other representing ?


JLB

 

[jasoncran]

God is Spirit. There is no gender. We are speaking about language here. Claudya? I thought you spoke German, yes? You, better than I, would know about masculine and feminine nouns, right?

Sparrowhawke: He is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God is Spirit and fills all heaven and all earth. Are you saying that I should try to think of God under limit of personification? Personification is when you assign the qualities of a person to something that isn't human. God is not created. Our Father is the Creator. Yes, He does speak of Himself in masculine terms. He also uses feminine terms. For instance:

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!

English Standard Version (©2001)

Would you like me to insist that "He" should have called "Himself" a rooster there? I think no.

I agree. and yet in the tanach and jewish thought adam had both sides in him until eve was created. God is neither male nor female but uses the male chiefly to describe himself. anthropic principles. God doesn't have arms, legs, feet or a throne in heaven. he rules like a king, God uses something we can relate to so that we can understand him.

 

[Guest]

Genesis 2:22 And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made<sup class="footnote" value="[a]">[a]</sup> into a woman and brought her to the man.

 

[jasoncran]

men do have emotions. we do have that side. while im not for being effimate its ok to cry and also to care and be tender at times.

 

[Claudya]

You'll need to direct that particular question to the OP who made the title of the thread up. I'm not at all sure you could convince me that I've said that "God has (or needs) a 'female side'". Any more than you could convince me that I think of God as some big Man in the sky. Neither are true.

No I didn't mean to "convince you" that you said either of those things. You're right, it was more directed to the OP.
But what I was saying to you is that language is not just language, it shapes our thinking.
And unfortunately many people think of God as a male (although they'd intellectually agree God is spirit and has no gender). Suggest to a fellow christian to refere to God as "our Mother in heaven" instead of father, or as Goddess instead of God, and I promise you most christians would feel very awkward, even offended, about it, although when believing God has no gender or both genders the female forms of adressing Her/Him would be as valid as the male ones.

 

[jasoncran]

that is BECAUSE MOST female goddess in history and in the wicca thinking are into some non-Christian stuff. why? well is abortion ok, sex with whatever moves ok? think of Dianah ,Artemis, Athenah. all these might of have changed but are at first fertility cults.

 

[jasoncran]

You'll need to direct that particular question to the OP who made the title of the thread up. I'm not at all sure you could convince me that I've said that "God has (or needs) a 'female side'". Any more than you could convince me that I think of God as some big Man in the sky. Neither are true.

No I didn't mean to "convince you" that you said either of those things. You're right, it was more directed to the OP.
But what I was saying to you is that language is not just language, it shapes our thinking.
And unfortunately many people think of God as a male (although they'd intellectually agree God is spirit and has no gender). Suggest to a fellow christian to refere to God as "our Mother in heaven" instead of father, or as Goddess instead of God, and I promise you most christians would feel very awkward, even offended, about it, although when believing God has no gender or both genders the female forms of adressing Her/Him would be as valid as the male ones.

you seem to think of equality to the point of that stupid idea of no gender. ie if a man wants a baby and bear one. should men alter his body and go against nature to do so. sorry, I don't think we need to be that egalitarian.

 

[Claudya]

men do have emotions. we do have that side. while im not for being effimate its ok to cry and also to care and be tender at times.

Actually the most emotional people I've ever met were males.
Emotion has wide range, it includes love and tenderness but also anger and hate. Men fail at controlling themselves just like women do. Or even more, because parents teach their girls about understanding emotions much more than they teach their boys about it, so when boys are overwhelmed with some emotion they don't have the strategies to handle themselves.

 

[jasoncran]

uh, I don't know. while I know you wont like this. but I think men today at times are to wussified. Nathan for example whines about pain. he has no instintinal fortitude. I helped them move last sunday and man his Mom went off on him about his whining. she said you are just like your dad who is weak minded.

men, need men to lead. I have to get on him about that and I told her you protect him to much. she is a tomboy. that is why I had to laugh when she said that. while I have my soft issues and medina pushes me on that. even as tough as he is. he is gentile with the kids mma class. there has to be a balance of masculinity and feminity these days and in the past.

 

[Claudya]

you seem to think of equality to the point of that stupid idea of no gender. ie if a man wants a baby and bear one. should men alter his body and go against nature to do so. sorry, I don't think we need to be that egalitarian.

I believe God has no gender.
As for humans, we do have genders. But what I believe is that our gender is not as super important as some people make it. It's one variable to describe a person. There are hundrets or thousands of variables that can describe a person, like nationality, age, IQ, education, interests, extraversion/introversion, faith, and so on. And I daresay that some of those variables say more about a person than gender does. So the meaning of gender is overrated imho.
And people should have the personal liberty to decide what they make of the sex they're given. Stick to traditional roles, rebel against them, ignore them, or whatever makes them most happy with themselves (because the more content a person is with her/himself the more s/he can be selfless and caring).

I certainly know I have a masculine side and I love it. :D It's no disgrace for a girl to say such a thing, so it shouldn't be a disgrace for a guy to just accept their female side.

 

[Atonement]

I was taught that Shekinah was referring to the dwelling place of God. Like our "mother earth" or other feminine words that describe a character in nature. Another example of this is the moon, the monthly cycle of the moon, in contrast to the annual cycle of the sun's path, has been implicitly linked to women's menstrual cycles by many cultures. But as Claudya kindly pointed out about the use for the word "cat." I believe this applies here as well; and rather not that God has or does not have feminine traits. After all, women and men are different by nature and our traits differ as well. God created men and women this way - He is the Father of all.

 

[jasoncran]

the jews allow for that. I understand that but the word shenikah isn't really the Name of god. the Name is always male in the jewish thought.

 

[Atonement]

the jews allow for that. I understand that but the word shenikah isn't really the Name of god. the Name is always male in the jewish thought.

No shenikah isn't a name for God but refers to a dwelling place or the Glory of God in some translations but not in reference to Himself

 

[Claudya]

uh, I don't know. while I know you wont like this. but I think men today at times are to wussified. Nathan for example whines about pain. he has no instintinal fortitude. I helped them move last sunday and man his Mom went off on him about his whining. she said you are just like your dad who is weak minded.

Yeah many are wussified, although whining about pain isn't real wussiness. Weak minded people are those that fail to accept the consequences of their actions, and people that are dishonest or cowardish or lazy because they shy away from discomfort and responsibility. Whining about pain, oh well, everyone does that. Just takes different amounts of pain for every individual.

I feel kinda sorry for Nathan because what his mother said is a very mean thing to say to a kid. It's like transfering the anger she feels for her (ex) partner onto the kid and since you, Jason, have been writing about self-loathing, I wouldn't be surprised if Nathan will get a massive self loathing problem later in his life, too, because I'd suspect this wasn't a single isolated incident.
You're right his mother shouldn't protect him too much, because that'd make him feel weak, dependent and imcompetent. But she shouldn't discourage him like that either, or give him such despisefull messages about himself. Giving him a positive idea about himself (that means unconditionally loving him, even if he fails at something) and his competences and encouraging him to act and take risks (instead of protecting him) would probably make him feel stronger and "manlier".
But now that's all off-topic. And I'm bad at parenting advise, I have no kids.

 

[jasoncran]

whining about a cut? really? im not talking about something serious, or whining about lifting something heavy or hard work. that is what I meant. if what something that I heard from my dad or belittling. No his dad is that way. trust me, my wife also has told me and I have seen it. I intimidated him with nary a word. just looked at him and had the tone. screw with me and my kid there and we will rumble. that dude wanted to fold in half.

Nathan is shy and wont take chances,. I have to coach him in not be afraid to drive my truck, and he make statements that I have never said nor would say. for example, I had Nathan help me take apart my rangers rear end. it was a simple job. I told him to clean the cover the axle shafts and also when to put the truck in neutral so that I could spin the third member to get the c clips out. I made sure that he knew not leave the keys in the run position and he did. he killed the battery. so I came in and showed him what happened and also chewed him out. I made sure that it wasn't a talk down but to show him that in life you will make mistakes and pay more attention. my wife is the one whom said I don't want him working on my truck. I told her how is he going to learn then?

I wouldn't say that to him.i told him he made the job easier as I could focus on the slide hammer and also beating the bearings in while he cleaned the parts that needed to be cleaned. I also have him take off tires etc. mentoring. but well you have to know him. with jaci. I don't see her becoming anything but another tom boy.

I make sure that I don't intimidate him. my concerns are that my habits with my wife may spread to him. but I will NOT go into that.Nathan at the age of 18 will likely visit me but not my wife. I hate to say that but its the truth.