Should a Christian Tithe?

[Deborah13]

A prosperity teacher would tell you that even though he didn't have the tenth lamb to pass under the staff to give to the Lord that he gave by faith anyway trusting that God would then provide the tenth lamb, and more, as a reward for his faith. I don't question the doctrine. These days I question the motive for teaching it.

lol, IF that was the doctrine they taught I wouldn't question giving a tenth by faith from a giving heart. But the doctrine that one must give a 1/10 or they are robbing God is incorrect doctrine. Most teach a partial truth, teaching the tithe from the law and then only a part of the law. They keep the givers heart in bondage to the law but don't teach the truth of the law. They want to have it both ways. They don't have the faith to trust God to provide the needs of their ministry but expect the poor to have faith that God will give them more money that very week or month so that they can buy the meds. their child needs to be able to breathe or the meds they need to keep their diabetes from blinding them. Give to this ministry and have faith you won't go blind is what they teach.

The motive has not changed and neither has the law. If one teaches the law they need to teach all the law or they are a liar.

 

[veryberry]

No one robs God and gets away with it!

Why do you want to be yoked up in the bondage of a law? A law that we are not under? We don't give out of necessity or grudgingly. We give generously and cheerfully. If we can't give cheerfully, then don't give at all.

This whole robbing God crap(I am aware of Malachi) is nothing but a control factor by your pastor. If you are giving for this reason, you are not pleasing God. Any of you can say that you have always given a tithe cheerfully, I know better.

$1 given cheerfully is far more pleasing to God than any amount given grudgingly and out of necessity...

The pastor needs to be paid so that he can live. Well your paying a pastor to lie to you and guilt trip you for not "tithing" so that he gets a paycheck.

The church building has a mortgage to be paid. Well maybe you shouldn't have a church building. There are house churches....

Don't run a ministry that relies on other people to support you. Run a ministry that you can support yourself and if people like your ministry and want to give to you cheerfully then great, be thankful.

You decide what you can give and give cheerfully. You are not under tutors and governors. Your pastor has no right to tell you what you can or cannot do.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And every tithe of herds and flocks, every tenth animal of all that pass under the herdsman's staff, shall be holy to the Lord. (Le. 27:32 ESV)​

It depends on how you interpret "every tenth animal". It doesn't seem to be just counting the total and dividing by ten. The animals seem to have been made to pass under a staff in single file, and every tenth animal belonged to God. The way I understand it, the tenth animal is the one that comes after the ninth, so if there are only 9, then there is no tenth animal that passes under the rod, and therefore no tithe. The same principal would apply if there were 59 or 109 or some other number of animals that was not evenly divisible by 10. There would be no tenth animal in the last group, and therefore no tithe of those animals. That's the way I understand it, but some others might say that the first lamb belonged to God and then every tenth animal after that. In that case, a person with 9 lambs would tithe.

The TOG​

(Ah the joys of interpreting the law, lol.)

Not that it's really relevant anymore (most of us have never owned livestock), but I'm with you. The first one was yours to begin with, so it should be counted as part of the ten. It seems if one's heart is set on holding back from the Lord they would opt for not including the first animal as part of the number that gets tithed.

 

[JLB]

Why do you want to be yoked up in the bondage of a law? A law that we are not under? We don't give out of necessity or grudgingly. We give generously and cheerfully. If we can't give cheerfully, then don't give at all.

This whole robbing God crap(I am aware of Malachi) is nothing but a control factor by your pastor. If you are giving for this reason, you are not pleasing God. Any of you can say that you have always given a tithe cheerfully, I know better.

$1 given cheerfully is far more pleasing to God than any amount given grudgingly and out of necessity...

The pastor needs to be paid so that he can live. Well your paying a pastor to lie to you and guilt trip you for not "tithing" so that he gets a paycheck.

The church building has a mortgage to be paid. Well maybe you shouldn't have a church building. There are house churches....

Don't run a ministry that relies on other people to support you. Run a ministry that you can support yourself and if people like your ministry and want to give to you cheerfully then great, be thankful.

You decide what you can give and give cheerfully. You are not under tutors and governors. Your pastor has no right to tell you what you can or cannot do.

Is there a scripture that teaches us we are not under the Law?


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

lol, IF that was the doctrine they taught I wouldn't question giving a tenth by faith from a giving heart.

But that is really what they teach. God pays back any and all giving the believer does. It is this promise that gives the believer the faith to trust God and be generous when everything around them says not to be generous. I'm not pretending that this is an easy doctrine. I'm just sharing what the Bible teaches. It's sad that many prosperity gospel teachers teach this Biblical doctrine for sake of gain, and not for sake of confidence that we can not harm ourselves by being generous and do not have to fear and be hard hearted toward the needy. .

But the doctrine that one must give a 1/10 or they are robbing God is incorrect doctrine.

It's only incorrect insofar as, IMO, we are no longer bound to that first covenant worship stipulation. That's probably what you mean, right?

Most teach a partial truth, teaching the tithe from the law and then only a part of the law. They keep the givers heart in bondage to the law but don't teach the truth of the law. They want to have it both ways.
[...]
If one teaches the law they need to teach all the law or they are a liar.

I agree. That's why I say pastors need to start teaching the part about the giver consuming part of his own tithe two out of every three years.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why do you want to be yoked up in the bondage of a law? A law that we are not under? We don't give out of necessity or grudgingly. We give generously and cheerfully. If we can't give cheerfully, then don't give at all.

This whole robbing God crap(I am aware of Malachi) is nothing but a control factor by your pastor.

Only because we are simply not bound by the literal tithe of the first covenant. Do you agree that's the only thing incorrect about it since Malachi plainly told the Israelites they were robbing God by withholding their tithe?

If you are giving for this reason, you are not pleasing God. Any of you can say that you have always given a tithe cheerfully, I know better.

I can honestly say I have never met a grudging tither. Honestly.

It seems in the church today that if you begrudge the tithe you won't give it, not give it begrudgingly. .

$1 given cheerfully is far more pleasing to God than any amount given grudgingly and out of necessity...

Biblically, this is true. The poor widow cast in more than the rich Pharisees, even though monetarily speaking her giving was nothing compared to their giving.

The church building has a mortgage to be paid. Well maybe you shouldn't have a church building. There are house churches....

Boo on this for reasons not related to the finances of running a church.

You don't have to spend a lot to have a meeting in a larger, neutral place that better meets the physical and personal needs of the body of Christ. But really that's another thread.

Don't run a ministry that relies on other people to support you. Run a ministry that you can support yourself and if people like your ministry and want to give to you cheerfully then great, be thankful.

You're half right.

It's unreasonable to think a single pastor can or should support the expenses of a legitimate church. But it's entirely Biblical that his success be based on whether or not the people in his care are being blessed and want to support what he's leading. Moses did not pay for the building of the Temple himself. And it succeeded because it was what God was doing and God moved the hearts of the people to fund it, and then some.

You decide what you can give and give cheerfully. You are not under tutors and governors. Your pastor has no right to tell you what you can or cannot do.

His responsibility is to teach you that you have a spiritual obligation to give to the teachers who feed you, and to give to others in need, and that you reap according to what, and how much you sow. The rest is up to the individual believer--that is whether or not they want to submit to God's way and purpose for giving.

 

[Deborah13]

And every tithe of herds and flocks, every tenth animal of all that pass under the herdsman's staff, shall be holy to the Lord. (Le. 27:32 ESV)​

It depends on how you interpret "every tenth animal". It doesn't seem to be just counting the total and dividing by ten. The animals seem to have been made to pass under a staff in single file, and every tenth animal belonged to God. The way I understand it, the tenth animal is the one that comes after the ninth, so if there are only 9, then there is no tenth animal that passes under the rod, and therefore no tithe. The same principal would apply if there were 59 or 109 or some other number of animals that was not evenly divisible by 10. There would be no tenth animal in the last group, and therefore no tithe of those animals. That's the way I understand it, but some others might say that the first lamb belonged to God and then every tenth animal after that. In that case, a person with 9 lambs would tithe.

The TOG​

If there was no 1/10 lamb they did not tithe from what they did not have. If a man had to give the first and he had one lamb and he had to give it as his increase that would be 100% of his increase. He would never be able to build his herd that way and eventually that one sheep that was giving birth to the tithe would die and he would be left with nothing and no way to care for his family.
What they try to pull with that is the firstfruits wave offering which was not a 1/10 of anything. It was an omar of processed grain left up in a bowl as thanksgiving for the crop.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If there was no 1/10 lamb they did not tithe from what they did not have. If a man had to give the first and he had one lamb and he had to give it as his increase that would be 100% of his increase. He would never be able to build his herd that way and eventually that one sheep that was giving birth to the tithe would die and he would be left with nothing and no way to care for his family.

Wait, wait.....slow down, let me figure this out. Four quarts in every gallon, 12 inches in a foot, 24 hours in a day, take away one.....

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And every tithe of herds and flocks, every tenth animal of all that pass under the herdsman's staff, shall be holy to the Lord. (Le. 27:32 ESV)​

It depends on how you interpret "every tenth animal". It doesn't seem to be just counting the total and dividing by ten. The animals seem to have been made to pass under a staff in single file, and every tenth animal belonged to God. The way I understand it, the tenth animal is the one that comes after the ninth, so if there are only 9, then there is no tenth animal that passes under the rod, and therefore no tithe. The same principal would apply if there were 59 or 109 or some other number of animals that was not evenly divisible by 10. There would be no tenth animal in the last group, and therefore no tithe of those animals. That's the way I understand it, but some others might say that the first lamb belonged to God and then every tenth animal after that. In that case, a person with 9 lambs would tithe.

The TOG​

What did it mean for the first out of the womb to be holy to the Lord? What did the Isrealite do with the first born, holy animals and sons in his estate? I know this is a picture of Christ, the first born from the dead, who is holy (set apart) unto the Lord. Practically speaking, I don't know what that would have meant to an Isrealite in regard to his family and flocks.

 

[Deborah13]

But that is really what they teach. God pays back any and all giving the believer does. It is this promise that gives the believer the faith to trust God and be generous when everything around them says not to be generous. I'm not pretending that this is an easy doctrine. I'm just sharing what the Bible teaches. It's sad that many prosperity gospel teachers teach this Biblical doctrine for sake of gain, and not for sake of confidence that we can not harm ourselves by being generous and do not have to fear and be hard hearted toward the needy. .

Please give me one scripture where the law says that the poor give a 1/10 of their increase.

That is what this thread is about the tithe, the 1/10 of the increase.

The OP is not talking about giving generously to ministries and to helping the poor as the NT teaches. Surely we are instructed to do this. We are told to make sure our preachers have a roof over their heads and food in their mouths and clothes on their backs.

The tithe was provided to the Levites. Well just in the worship part of their duties that would include providing for the singers and the musicians as well as the pastors and the elders.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Please give me one scripture where the law says that the poor give a 1/10 of their increase.

That is what this thread is about the tithe, the 1/10 of the increase.

You're arguing a point I'm not defending.

I said this earlier in this thread:

But all surely had something. If you have nothing, then you owe nothing. Ten percent of nothing is still nothing. But ten percent of something is still ten percent of something.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

First fruits is not part of a tithe.
The Jews were to give first fruits, then a tithe, then leave some behind for gleaning.

 

[Deborah13]

Wait, wait.....slow down, let me figure this out. Four quarts in every gallon, 12 inches in a foot, 24 hours in a day, take away one.....

lol exactly. The tithing laws were very specific as to what they were, where they were to be taken, who would receive them, and at what time of the year. In the 7th year there was no tithe collected at all. :shock
What else happened in the 7th year....all debts were forgiven.
You won't hear either of these things preached from the tithe teachers.

Do Jewish rabbis accept tithes, they do not! They do not teach tithing, they in fact are more Biblical then these preachers. They teach giving to care for others.
How do they pay for the expenses of the synagogue then? Each member contributes a set amount each year that is predetermined by the actual cost, they pay for their seat and their family's. All members pay the same amount. If there are those among them who can't afford it the more fortunate pay for them, no one is left out. But their giving is personal to whomever or whatever they choose.
That sounds like NT to me.

 

[Deborah13]

First fruits is not part of a tithe.
The Jews were to give first fruits, then a tithe, then leave some behind for gleaning.

Amen

 

[iLOVE]

Why do you want to be yoked up in the bondage of a law? A law that we are not under? We don't give out of necessity or grudgingly. We give generously and cheerfully. If we can't give cheerfully, then don't give at all.

This whole robbing God crap(I am aware of Malachi) is nothing but a control factor by your pastor. If you are giving for this reason, you are not pleasing God. Any of you can say that you have always given a tithe cheerfully, I know better.

$1 given cheerfully is far more pleasing to God than any amount given grudgingly and out of necessity...

The pastor needs to be paid so that he can live. Well your paying a pastor to lie to you and guilt trip you for not "tithing" so that he gets a paycheck.

The church building has a mortgage to be paid. Well maybe you shouldn't have a church building. There are house churches....

Don't run a ministry that relies on other people to support you. Run a ministry that you can support yourself and if people like your ministry and want to give to you cheerfully then great, be thankful.

You decide what you can give and give cheerfully. You are not under tutors and governors. Your pastor has no right to tell you what you can or cannot do.

1. Tithing is something you do out of your love for God.
   1. My wife and I motive for giving a tenth to Jesus is not because it is required by the law or a specific commandment to tithe. We tithed because We love God.
2. Jesus never commanded people to tithe in the New Testament but the commandment to love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength encompasses all the laws in the Old Testament, including tithing.
3. When you operate in the law of love, you fulfill all the other commandments in the Bible.
4. When you keep the commandment of love, you will want to tithe out of your love and appreciation for God.
5. Your love for God should motivate you to give (Luke 10:27).
6. My wife and I enjoy seeing the supernatural overflowing blessings in our lives!

 

[iLOVE]

Did the man who had 9 lambs tithe?

Please post the scripture you have reference.

 

[veryberry]

Is there a scripture that teaches us we are not under the Law?


JLB

Sure there is.. Romans 6&7

 

[TOG]

What did it mean for the first out of the womb to be holy to the Lord? What did the Isrealite do with the first born, holy animals and sons in his estate? I know this is a picture of Christ, the first born from the dead, who is holy (set apart) unto the Lord. Practically speaking, I don't know what that would have meant to an Isrealite in regard to his family and flocks.

When it says that the firstborn of the animals belonged to God, I believe that meant the the firstborn were offered as a sacrifice. The firstborn children could not be sacrificed, so they were redeemed, and the money given to God. I believe it was similar with unclean animals, only people had a choice of either redeeming them or killing them without sacrificing them.

The TOG​

 

[Deborah13]

1. Tithing is something you do out of your love for God.
   1. My wife and I motive for giving a tenth to Jesus is not because it is required by the law or a specific commandment to tithe. We tithed because We love God.
2. Jesus never commanded people to tithe in the New Testament but the commandment to love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength encompasses all the laws in the Old Testament, including tithing.
3. When you operate in the law of love, you fulfill all the other commandments in the Bible.
4. When you keep the commandment of love, you will want to tithe out of your love and appreciation for God.
5. Your love for God should motivate you to give (Luke 10:27).
6. My wife and I enjoy seeing the supernatural overflowing blessings in our lives!

And I believe the Lord accepts what you give from a pure heart and you can stand on His promises of blessings in the NT that are given to the cheerful giver.
What you are giving is not a tithe as per the OT law even though it is a tenth of your increase. That is what you choose to give, is it not?
The Lord bless you richly for giving with pure intentions.
3Jn 1:1 The Elder to Gaius the beloved, whom I love in truth!
3Jn 1:2 beloved, concerning all things I desire thee to prosper, and to be in health, even as thy soul doth prosper,

 

[veryberry]

Only because we are simply not bound by the literal tithe of the first covenant. Do you agree that's the only thing incorrect about it since Malachi plainly told the Israelites they were robbing God by withholding their tithe?



I can honestly say I have never met a grudging tither. Honestly.

It seems in the church today that if you begrudge the tithe you won't give it, not give it begrudgingly. .



Biblically, this is true. The poor widow cast in more than the rich Pharisees, even though monetarily speaking her giving was nothing compared to their giving.



Boo on this for reasons not related to the finances of running a church.

You don't have to spend a lot to have a meeting in a larger, neutral place that better meets the physical and personal needs of the body of Christ. But really that's another thread.




You're half right.

It's unreasonable to think a single pastor can or should support the expenses of a legitimate church. But it's entirely Biblical that his success be based on whether or not the people in his care are being blessed and want to support what he's leading. Moses did not pay for the building of the Temple himself. And it succeeded because it was what God was doing and God moved the hearts of the people to fund it, and then some.



His responsibility is to teach you that you have a spiritual obligation to give to the teachers who feed you, and to give to others in need, and that you reap according to what, and how much you sow. The rest is up to the individual believer--that is whether or not they want to submit to God's way and purpose for giving.

If people were honest about their feelings, you would meet a lot of people who tithe grudgingly. If you are short on money, struggling to pay bills and you tithe, most likely you are tithing grudgingly. I know I did. There is a difference between teaching a required tithe, then grace giving. No where in the bible does it say anything for a Christian to give a minimum of 10%. Teaching how a Christian should give by grace and not out of obligation I am all for, but putting your congregation under a law, is the policy of evil.

If pastors stick to biblical truth rightly dividing, then there would be little if at all problems. (Edited ToS 2.4 No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Obadiah.)