Should a Christian Tithe?

[jasonc]

If people were honest about their feelings, you would meet a lot of people who tithe grudgingly. If you are short on money, struggling to pay bills and you tithe, most likely you are tithing grudgingly. I know I did. There is a difference between teaching a required tithe, then grace giving. No where in the bible does it say anything for a Christian to give a minimum of 10%. Teaching how a Christian should give by grace and not out of obligation I am all for, but putting your congregation under a law, is the policy of evil.

(Edited ToS 2.4 No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Obadiah.)

that is a great assumption with a broad brush. while I do see that with doctrine with err. I also know men and woman whom tithe and are blessed and my church has this doctrine. and many do give. I wish more would give and I add that I ought to myself.

 

[Deborah13]

Please post the scripture you have reference.

Lev 27:30 And all tithe of the land, of the seed of the land, of the fruit of the tree, is Jehovah's--holy to Jehovah.
Lev 27:31 `And if a man really redeem any of his tithe, its fifth he addeth to it.
Lev 27:32 `And all the tithe of the herd and of the flock--all that passeth by under the rod--the tenth is holy to Jehovah;

"passeth under the rod: The Rabbins say, that when a man gave the tithe of his sheep or calves, he shut them in one fold, in which was a narrow door, to let out but one at a time. He then stood by the door, with a rod dipped in vermilion in his hand, and as they passed he counted them with the rod; and when the tenth came he touched it, by which it was distinguished as the tithe calf, sheep, etc."
http://www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/treasury-of-scripture-knowledge/leviticus-27-32.html

 

[Deborah13]

When it says that the firstborn of the animals belonged to God, I believe that meant the the firstborn were offered as a sacrifice. The firstborn children could not be sacrificed, so they were redeemed, and the money given to God. I believe it was similar with unclean animals, only people had a choice of either redeeming them or killing them without sacrificing them.

The TOG​

Yes, these were the ones who opened the womb of the animal or woman and nothing to do with the tithe.
So if you were a farmer who was just beginning a herd which animal would you buy in order to have increase, ones that had previously given birth. Then the next crop would be both male and female only those who were female would be considered here. The males could be sold to buy more female animals.

 

[Deborah13]

If people were honest about their feelings, you would meet a lot of people who tithe grudgingly. If you are short on money, struggling to pay bills and you tithe, most likely you are tithing grudgingly. I know I did. There is a difference between teaching a required tithe, then grace giving. No where in the bible does it say anything for a Christian to give a minimum of 10%. Teaching how a Christian should give by grace and not out of obligation I am all for, but putting your congregation under a law, is the policy of evil.

(Edited ToS 2.4 No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Obadiah.)

Over the years I have known many people who give a tenth and beyond, including my family. Some of them gave expecting a monetary 100 fold return and couldn't figure out why that never happened. One man was very angry that this never happened for him. Ours believed that God would curse them if they didn't and others gave because they believed that was what God commanded but they gave cheerfully. If I were going to a church right now where I live I would still give at least a tenth because all the churches barely get by. There is one church here that the Lord put on my heart a few years ago so when there is something the old church building needs we help out. If the new pastor needed something we would do that too. That pastor works as a maintenance person for a private retreat, his wife is a substitute teacher. He has been known to be still at the church doing maintenance at midnight with Lexy's guy friend at the church, installing ceiling fans/lights, etc. Sometimes the Lord just tells you to bless someone out of the blue and if you can do that without them or anyone else knowing where it came from that is pure joy.

 

[iLOVE]

Lev 27:30 And all tithe of the land, of the seed of the land, of the fruit of the tree, is Jehovah's--holy to Jehovah.
Lev 27:31 `And if a man really redeem any of his tithe, its fifth he addeth to it.
Lev 27:32 `And all the tithe of the herd and of the flock--all that passeth by under the rod--the tenth is holy to Jehovah;

"passeth under the rod: The Rabbins say, that when a man gave the tithe of his sheep or calves, he shut them in one fold, in which was a narrow door, to let out but one at a time. He then stood by the door, with a rod dipped in vermilion in his hand, and as they passed he counted them with the rod; and when the tenth came he touched it, by which it was distinguished as the tithe calf, sheep, etc."
http://www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/treasury-of-scripture-knowledge/leviticus-27-32.html

Thank you!

I will close with this on the subject of tithing - 2 Corinthians 9:6-15 ERV

6 Remember this: The one who plants few seeds will have a small harvest. But the one who plants a lot will have a big harvest. 7 Each one of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give. You should not give if it makes you unhappy or if you feel forced to give. God loves those who are happy to give. 8 And God can give you more blessings than you need, and you will always have plenty of everything. You will have enough to give to every good work.

9 As the Scriptures say,
“He gives generously to the poor;
his goodness will continue forever.”

10 God is the one who gives seed to those who plant, and he gives bread for food. And God will give you spiritual seed and make that seed grow. He will produce a great harvest from your goodness. 11 God will make you rich in every way so that you can always give freely. And your giving through us will make people give thanks to God.

12 The service you are offering helps God’s people with their needs, but that is not all it does. It is also bringing more and more thanks to God. 13 This service is a proof of your faith, and people will praise God because of it. They will praise God that you freely share what you have with them and with all people. They will praise him to see you following the Good News about Christ that you openly accepted. They will praise God because you freely share with them and with all people. 14 And when they pray, they will wish they could be with you. They will feel this way because of the great grace that God gave you. 15 Thanks be to God for his gift that is too wonderful to describe.


Then those who feared the LORD spoke with each other, and the LORD listened to what they said. In his presence, a scroll of remembrance was written to record the names of those who feared him and always thought about the honor of his name. Malachi 3:16 NLT

Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked.
The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God." Acts 10:4 NIV

 

[evenifigoalone]

whatever you do , do it for Gods Glory. Your sacrifice of praise and worship and living a life of justice and mercy to others is a tithe.

Ask yourself does God want new carpets for a church or or some shoes for a child that does not have any

To my knowledge most churches support a missionary board, either directly or through an organization. A portion of the tithes collected go to that.
A good church will also support or host outreach programs. There's a couple in my church who have a food ministry for the needy. My church also fundraises for some other causes, such as the local crisis pregnancy center. (Though that is separate from tithes to my knowledge.)
And yes a portion of the money will go to stuff like building repairs.

I'd ask the church leaders what the tithe money goes towards before assuming it's a waste or anything. I will say if a church isn't supporting some kind of ministry I'd find another church.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Is there a scripture that teaches us we are not under the Law?


JLB

Here are a few for you.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18 (ESV)

For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:14 (ESV)

realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 1 Timothy 1:9 (NASB) [I like the rendering of this translation in the NASB, it's a lot more clear]

 

[Deborah13]

Here are a few for you.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18 (ESV)

For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:14 (ESV)

realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 1 Timothy 1:9 (NASB) [I like the rendering of this translation in the NASB, it's a lot more clear]

It seems to me sometimes that people are afraid that if people understand that they are not under the law that they will somehow be lawless. This is the better covenant not a lawless covenant. To walk in the Spirit is life not death.
If there are problems with people acting lawless after hearing the Gospel of Grace the fault is either in the way it is taught or in the way it is received.

 

[TOG]

It seems to me sometimes that people are afraid that if people understand that they are not under the law that they will somehow be lawless. This is the better covenant not a lawless covenant. To walk in the Spirit is life not death.
If there are problems with people acting lawless after hearing the Gospel of Grace the fault is either in the way it is taught or in the way it is received.

What does it mean that we are "not under the law"? And what law is it that we are not under?

For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. (Rom. 7:22-23 ESV)
​

In just these two verses, we see...

1. The law of God
2. Another (unnamed) law
3. The law of Paul's mind
4. The law of sin

Which one is Paul referring to when he says in verse 4 that we have died to the law? And, just so I don't derail the thread too much, to which of these 4 laws does the tithe belong? If the answer to those two questions is the same, then we can safely ignore everything the Bible says about tithing, but if they are different, we need to take a closer look to see if the tithe still applies.

The TOG​

 

[JLB]

Here are a few for you.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18 (ESV)

For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:14 (ESV)

realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 1 Timothy 1:9 (NASB) [I like the rendering of this translation in the NASB, it's a lot more clear]

Those are good scriptures and I agree with them, however these state "if" we do something "then" we are not under the law.

What about if we as a Christian, don't walk in the Spirit, are we under the law of Moses?


JLB

 

[JLB]

Deb said -

It seems to me sometimes that people are afraid that if people understand that they are not under the law that they will somehow be lawless.

Just what I was thinking.


JLB

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Those are good scriptures and I agree with them, however these state "if" we do something "then" we are not under the law.

What about if we as a Christian, don't walk in the Spirit, are we under the law of Moses?


JLB

In Romans, Paul explicitly says that if anyone does not have the Spirit, they do not belong to God. Which is why he refers to their condition in Romans as such, "since you are not under law but under grace." This "since" is not a conditional statement, but a matter of fact statement as to their condition. We in the New Covenant are not under law, but under grace. We have died to the law through the body of Christ, and raised with Christ in order to serve in the New way of the Spirit, in order to bear fruit for God.

You see, God would not have us put under the law again, because it is only apart from the Law that we are able to truly bear fruit for God. If anyone goes back to the Law, they are accursed and cut off from Christ.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Those are good scriptures and I agree with them, however these state "if" we do something "then" we are not under the law.

What about if we as a Christian, don't walk in the Spirit, are we under the law of Moses?


JLB

In Romans, Paul explicitly says that if anyone does not have the Spirit, they do not belong to God. Which is why he refers to their condition in Romans as such, "since you are not under law but under grace." This "since" is not a conditional statement, but a matter of fact statement as to their condition. We in the New Covenant are not under law, but under grace. We have died to the law through the body of Christ, and raised with Christ in order to serve in the New way of the Spirit, in order to bear fruit for God.

You see, God would not have us put under the law again, because it is only apart from the Law that we are able to truly bear fruit for God. If anyone goes back to the Law, they are accursed and cut off from Christ.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

What does it mean that we are "not under the law"? And what law is it that we are not under?

For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. (Rom. 7:22-23 ESV)
​

In just these two verses, we see...

1. The law of God
2. Another (unnamed) law
3. The law of Paul's mind
4. The law of sin

Which one is Paul referring to when he says in verse 4 that we have died to the law? And, just so I don't derail the thread too much, to which of these 4 laws does the tithe belong? If the answer to those two questions is the same, then we can safely ignore everything the Bible says about tithing, but if they are different, we need to take a closer look to see if the tithe still applies.

The TOG​

Christians are no longer under the Law of Moses, and the Law of Christ which we are under now, sums up the whole purpose of the OT Law. Which is now that we do all things in love, now circumcision counts for nothing, rather faith working through love is what matters.

The institution of tithing as a necessary requirement therefore no longer applies, but this does not mean that Christians no longer give. The Church in Acts, gave away their possessions not just to some institution, but to each other. Generosity, is meant to be towards the people of God specifically, and it should also work towards the furthering of the kingdom and the provision of ministers.

It is is not compulsory or mandatory, but if one's heart truly is toward God's kingdom, it will be reflected with where they store their treasures.

 

[Deborah13]

What does it mean that we are "not under the law"? And what law is it that we are not under?

For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. (Rom. 7:22-23 ESV)
​

In just these two verses, we see...

1. The law of God
2. Another (unnamed) law
3. The law of Paul's mind
4. The law of sin

Which one is Paul referring to when he says in verse 4 that we have died to the law? And, just so I don't derail the thread too much, to which of these 4 laws does the tithe belong? If the answer to those two questions is the same, then we can safely ignore everything the Bible says about tithing, but if they are different, we need to take a closer look to see if the tithe still applies.

The TOG​

I believe in Romans 7 when Paul says the law of God, he is talking about the Law of the Spirit that is written on the tablet of his heart (inner man/spirit), not Moses' Law written on tablets of stone with all the details of what they entailed.

If we are to tithe by the law then people better get with the program because if they think their 10% is accurate under the tithing laws they are wrong, it's much closer to 19-23% when all the different tithes are paid. And the offerings are separate.
So these tithe preachers are even cheating them out of the blessing under the tithe laws that they stand on in Malachi. :shock

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It seems to me sometimes that people are afraid that if people understand that they are not under the law that they will somehow be lawless.

The problem is, Deborah, the church has been mislead as to what 'not being under the law' means. The meaning they have been taught has in fact led to lawless doctrines. Look around you. We dwell in the midst of a church that says since the law went away so that salvation is no longer by doing the works of the law (as if it ever was) that it doesn't matter what we do anymore--just do good if you can, it's doesn't matter toward salvation anymore.

In this matter of tithing, I'm of the opinion that the literal tithe belongs with the other ceremonial worship laws. They have been laid aside in favor of their new spiritual fulfillment (not abolished as the church thinks). It's easy to see right here in this thread how the church's walks out this attitude about the law I shared above. They say the literal command is gone, so just do what you can. That's all that God expects. Not knowing that God still expects faith to fulfill the principles of the law, just in the new way of faith in Christ, not in a 'if I can I will' way.

If there are problems with people acting lawless after hearing the Gospel of Grace the fault is either in the way it is taught or in the way it is received.

My vote goes with 'the way it is taught'. Again I point out that just in this thread alone we see believers thinking that grace means 'do good if you can, and if you can't it really doesn't matter; whatever you do is good enough'.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You see, God would not have us put under the law again...

Sadly, what many Christians are taught is that 'under the law again' means any and all attempt to know what the law says and then do it. But what it really means is do what the law says in the attempt to be justified by that attempt.

In this matter of tithing you aren't putting yourself back under the law by simply tithing. You are putting yourself back under the law when you think that tithing is how one justifies themselves before God and/or rejects the power of the Spirit to tithe in favor of a carnal legalistic effort to tithe. The point being, tithing itself is not categorically putting one self under the law.

...because it is only apart from the Law that we are able to truly bear fruit for God. If anyone goes back to the Law, they are accursed and cut off from Christ.

As proof of what I'm saying, if simply knowing what the law says and then trying to do it means going back to the condemnation and fruitlessness of spirit-less law keeping then that is precisely what James, for example, was doing to the church--putting them back 'under the law'. But I doubt you would say James was doing that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If we are to tithe by the law then people better get with the program because if they think their 10% is accurate under the tithing laws they are wrong, it's much closer to 19-23% when all the different tithes are paid. And the offerings are separate.
So these tithe preachers are even cheating them out of the blessing under the tithe laws that they stand on in Malachi. :shock

I think the important thing is to not bash tithing, but bash the inaccurate teaching about it, don't you agree? I'm hoping you agree that simply choosing to tithe is not the equivalent of 'putting oneself back under the law', and that the problem is the reason you are doing it. The reason being what determines if you are in fact 'putting yourself back under the law' by deciding to tithe.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Sadly, what many Christians are taught is that 'under the law again' means any and all attempt to know what the law says and then do it. But what it really means is do what the law says in the attempt to be justified by that attempt.

In this matter of tithing you aren't putting yourself back under the law by simply tithing. You are putting yourself back under the law when you think that tithing is how one justifies themselves before God and/or rejects the power of the Spirit to tithe in favor of a carnal legalistic effort to tithe. The point being, tithing itself is not categorically putting one self under the law.

I would say when one makes an institution of the law such as this necessary and compulsory, and something that distinguishes who are the people of God, then there is a problem. For example, it is not wrong to circumcise your children now, but it is wrong to think that the circumcision is any kind of indicator that this person in particular is part of God's Covenant people on that basis.

A person is not justified on the basis of tithing, nor does their failure to tithe disqualify them. A person who lacks generosity though, and is not rich towards God and his people however, has revealed their heart by their inaction. As John asked, how can the love of God be in a person who sees a Christian brother and sister and in need, and withhold their material possessions? Such a thing is not possible.

I also think calling it tithing causes more problems than it solves, mostly people try to manipulate through through the blessings promised to Israel in regards to tithing. When one examines the texts about giving money or possessions in the NT, they are not framed in the same way. Giving to the Lord, or his people should not be out of a hope for future personal gains.

The prosperity gospel is a terrible heresy that is infecting much of the American church.

As proof of what I'm saying, if simply knowing what the law says and then trying to do it means going back to the condemnation and fruitlessness of spirit-less law keeping then that precisely what James, for example, was doing to the church. I doubt you would say James was doing that.

Christians aren't supposed to act in that way though, we aren't supposed to do "Law-keeping," but rather through the Holy Spirit working by our faith we love in deed. In Galatians, Paul seems very clear that it must be by the Spirit through faith.

 

[phil marriner]

Whatever you do do it for Gods Glory not for your own. Each man is responsible for his own salvation so pray about it , there is no condemnation in Christ whatever you decide.peace and Love