Should a Christian Tithe?

[Jethro Bodine]

These scriptures are not talking about the sin nature.

Context, Deborah. Context!

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The law condemns sin. In Christ that sin is removed. With sin removed the law no longer has the hook of the flesh to provoke sin in us and keep us in bondage to that sin and condemn us. That is what it means to be 'dead to the law'. Sadly, the church has twisted 'dead to the law' to mean 'I don't have to do things in the law anymore--that would be works'.

While it's certainly true that there are various literal stipulations of law that we simply don't have to do anymore (tithing being one of them, IMO) that hardly means we don't have to fulfill the requirements of the law anymore because that would be trying to be saved by works of the law. How ridiculous. But that is what so many people think.

To condemn NT giving is to condemn the Word of God.

What is worthy of condemnation is when grace doesn't produce abundant giving, but instead produces an excuse to be tight fisted.

To judge people who give by grace is to condemn them using the Law of Moses to do it.

How is giving little to nothing while chanting the mantra 'I don't have to be generous because I'm not under the law anymore' NT grace?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What post is that, I like to read the whole thing in context.

Sheesh....

They said, God doesn't want us under the Law......

That's true.

"in any way shape or form". Don't ignore what I emphasized in that quote. That's the point.

Being under obligation to keep the law of Moses.

Simple.

Too vague and meaningless for as complex a subject as the law is. And because it gets presented so many times in the church in this vague meaningless way it gets understood as 'I don't have to do anything in the law, I'm under grace'. Not knowing that God gave us grace to fulfill the law, not abolish it.

 

[JLB]

"in any way shape or form". Don't ignore what I emphasized in that quote. That's the point.



Too vague and meaningless for as complex a subject as the law is. And because it gets presented so many times in the church in this vague meaningless way it gets understood as 'I don't have to do anything in the law, I'm under grace'. Not knowing that God gave us grace to fulfill the law, not abolish it.

Learning from the examples of those who were under the law is not being "under the law" yourself!

Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 1 Corinthians 10:6

It is profiting from the scriptures.

We are not under the law of Moses in any way what so ever, at all!

There is only one Law of Moses and that is the literal law of Moses that requires a Levitical Priesthood, animal sacrifices, Sabbath rules...

The law of Moses requires literal fleshly circumcision!

The law of Moses requires a pilgrimage three times a year to Jerusalem to keep the literal feasts, by Jews who are circumcised.

This is why there were Jews from other countries in Jerusalem for the Pentecost.

God planned it that way for them to hear the Gospel and be filled with the Spirit and take the Gospel back to their country where they lived.

Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, "Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs--we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God." 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, "Whatever could this mean?" Acts 2:7-12

We are not under the law of Moses in any way what so ever.

We are under obligation to our King Jesus, the One who is resurrected from the dead!

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another--to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. Romans 7:4


JLB

 

[JLB]

"in any way shape or form". Don't ignore what I emphasized in that quote. That's the point.



Too vague and meaningless for as complex a subject as the law is. And because it gets presented so many times in the church in this vague meaningless way it gets understood as 'I don't have to do anything in the law, I'm under grace'. Not knowing that God gave us grace to fulfill the law, not abolish it.

I'm not under the law, I'm under Grace.

I am not obligated to sacrifice animals, of be physically circumcised, or keep the strict Sabbath rules, of report to Jerusalem for the required feasts, or put my neighbor to death if he violates the Sabbath.

I am, however to literally keep God's law that says do not murder.

The only way to keep that law is to not murder, as well not harbor murderous thoughts toward others.

I am not exempt from literally keeping this law that says do not murder, because I have faith in Christ.

I myself must literally obey this command from God.

This command from God has been His command since before the foundation of the world, but was specifically stated in the 10 commandments.

Abraham was commended by God, that He obeyed His Voice and kept His commandments, 400 years before the Law of Moses was added!

Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." Genesis 26:4


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Grace has a stricter obligation than Moses Law.

Which is the exact point I've been making. Somehow 'not being under the law', but now under grace means the love of God in a person causes them to give less than what the inferior and sinful way of the law commanded. The point being, grace has ended up making the church LESS generous, not as much or more generous than what the inferior way of the law commanded, even though this same church boasts of how we serve God all the more successfully and effectively through this new and better way of grace.

The church, in general, has made grace an excuse to do less for God and to be content with that. That is how the church has made license out of the grace of God.

 

[JLB]

Which is the exact point I've been making. Somehow 'not being under the law', but now under grace means the love of God in a person causes them to give less than what the inferior and sinful way of the law commanded. The point being, grace has ended up making the church LESS generous, not as much or more generous than what the inferior way of the law commanded, even though this same church boasts of how we serve God all the more successfully and effectively through this new and better way of grace.

The church, in general, has made grace an excuse to do less for God and to be content with that. That is how the church has made license out of the grace of God.

I don't know of anyone who thinks that Grace is an excuse to do less for God.

However, that does not matter.

What matters is what scripture teaches.

We are not under the law but under Grace.

The law is not of faith.

The law was added until the Seed.

This is what the scripture teaches.


JLB

 

[veryberry]

I'm not under the law, I'm under Grace.

I am not obligated to sacrifice animals, of be physically circumcised, or keep the strict Sabbath rules, of report to Jerusalem for the required feasts, or put my neighbor to death if he violates the Sabbath.

I am, however to literally keep God's law that says do not murder.

The only way to keep that law is to not murder, as well not harbor murderous thoughts toward others.

I am not exempt from literally keeping this law that says do not murder, because I have faith in Christ.

I myself must literally obey this command from God.

This command from God has been His command since before the foundation of the world, but was specifically stated in the 10 commandments.

Abraham was commended by God, that He obeyed His Voice and kept His commandments, 400 years before the Law of Moses was added!

Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." Genesis 26:4


JLB

I agree with much of what you say. However I disagree with Keeping the 10 Commandments. Paul is specifically talking of the 10 Commandments in Romans 7 and he uses "Thou shalt not Covet". This commandment is the most dangerous of the 10. Coveting leads to all other commandments. You covet money, so lie, steal, kill, break the sabbath. You covet a woman, so you lie, kill, commit aldultry...etc etc.. Every commandment broken is always followed by coveting.

One thing the commandment "Thou shalt covet" does not do, is tell you how not to covet. Once that commandment comes, you will see all manors concupiscence. Different degrees of lust, weak lust, strong lust, little lust, lots of lust, etc... This is not how God wants you to live. He will teach you a new way to live under the power of grace. It is only through this that sin can be over come. He has already taught you that you are dead to sin and alive unto God.

Romans 13: 8-10:
8. Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Godly love does not need the law. God will teach how to think like him, act like him, and labor with him in his business.

 

[JLB]

I agree with much of what you say. However I disagree with Keeping the 10 Commandments. Paul is specifically talking of the 10 Commandments in Romans 7 and he uses "Thou shalt not Covet". This commandment is the most dangerous of the 10. Coveting leads to all other commandments. You covet money, so lie, steal, kill, break the sabbath. You covet a woman, so you lie, kill, commit aldultry...etc etc.. Every commandment broken is always followed by coveting.

One thing the commandment "Thou shalt covet" does not do, is tell you how not to covet. Once that commandment comes, you will see all manors concupiscence. Different degrees of lust, weak lust, strong lust, little lust, lots of lust, etc... This is not how God wants you to live. He will teach you a new way to live under the power of grace. It is only through this that sin can be over come. He has already taught you that you are dead to sin and alive unto God.

Romans 13: 8-10:
8. Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Godly love does not need the law. God will teach how to think like him, act like him, and labor with him in his business.

By writing His Law on our hearts.

By giving us a new Divine Nature whose desire is contrary to the desires of the flesh.

Do not kill, steal or lie... are eternal commandments that preceded the law of Moses and will always be commandments to be observed for those who are in God's Kingdom.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do not kill, steal or lie... are eternal commandments that preceded the law of Moses and will always be commandments to be observed for those who are in God's Kingdom.

But tithing preceded the.....

Never mind, lol!

I guess we'll save that for those who say we still have to tithe.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Godly love does not need the law.

Until we all become perfect in love I guess an occasional visit to the written word won't hurt.

God will teach how to think like him, act like him, and labor with him in his business.

And he just might do that through the written words of our Bibles. :yes

 

[Deborah13]

OP Should a Christian Tithe?

I believe that each family or individual should ask the Lord what He wants them to give, where to give it, and then do it.

 

[JLB]

OP Should a Christian Tithe?

I believe that each family or individual should ask the Lord what He wants them to give, where to give it, and then do it.

Ok.

Where should a Christian give his or her tithes?

What direction from the word do we have both in the law of Moses, Genesis and the New Testament, that teaches us the attitude that pleases God?


JLB

 

[veryberry]

OP Should a Christian Tithe?

I believe that each family or individual should ask the Lord what He wants them to give, where to give it, and then do it.

The beauty about being an adopted son/daughter is that we make our own decisions. We are not under tutors and governors. We are now a part of the our Fathers business and he teaches us how he thinks, acts, and we will labor with him bringing him much glory. God does not tell us what to give, we give what we think will bring him much glory.

God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil because God was teaching Adam himself the knowledge of what is good and what is bad. Bu Adam chose the wisdom of the world.

Jesus Christ was taught by God. He had specific curriculum to go through to be about the Fathers business and he made decisions that brought Father the most glory. For example, He could have brought in 10,000 Angels or he could have died on the cross. Both would have been good for him to do, but he chose what brought Father the most glory.

We have specific curriculum to be about our Fathers business. Israel has theirs. All of the bible is for us, but not all of it is to us. This why we must rightly divide the word of truth.

 

[Deborah13]

Ok.

Where should a Christian give his or her tithes?

What direction from the word do we have both in the law of Moses, Genesis and the New Testament, that teaches us the attitude that pleases God?


JLB

I believe that each family or individual should ask the Lord what He wants them to give, where to give it, and then do it.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I believe that each family or individual should ask the Lord what He wants them to give, where to give it, and then do it.

Your point is likely to be well taken by God but i have another view on this. We are taught many things in the scriptures that are ignored today and that is sad. Contrary to the ever increasing view that we are not called to tithe we are taught to do so in the first book of the Bible and that is further expounded upon in the New Testament when we are instructed that the Man of God is worthy of his hire.

Now when we look at Matt. 10:7-10 we find an oft misused portion of scripture but when properly applied it does destroy the very legs these leaders of mega-churches stand on. J Jesus told His Disciples to take only what was required to complete their missions. Now, the legalistic will jump right in the middle of this to not pay the preacher but that is not true. The
text has nothing to do with being a penny pinching legailist.

If we pay the preacher his worth he is free to do as all ministers of the Gospel are instructed to do and study the Word in submission to God. And when we consider that our preachers are not itenerate, we must make provision for their wives, children, pets for the children, vacations to avoid burn out, gas and repairs for their auto and on and on.


So it is that I always teach that we must, to be pleasing to God, tithe our 10% or more to the assembly where we are blessed. But we must never get stuck on that 10% number. Some, not many but some, cannot give that much and if you are like me, 10% is not enough. I have never given, just, 10% and I do testify to the thought that this is likely why I have been repeatedly blessed so. I never give expecting a blessing but it does seem that god is always ahead of me.

 

[JLB]

I believe that each family or individual should ask the Lord what He wants them to give, where to give it, and then do it.

For the Christian today, it may be wise to counsel that what we hear from God, should line up with the word.

So that is why I suggest - What direction from the word do we have both in the law of Moses, Genesis and the New Testament, that teaches us the attitude that pleases God?

We wouldn't want a younger brother or sister in the Lord giving away their car, which could be their only way to get to and from work, thinking that God told them to do this, when the word says -

But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5:8


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

We are taught in the NT what we are responsible for in giving. This is what God has told us.
Paul specifically tells us us not to muzzle the ox. We see how no one was to be left without their needs met. We see the an evangelist should be supported in their ministry. We see that when there are needs outside our own church we need to take care of others in other assemblies. We see we are to help those who are not Christians at all, the homeless and hapless, the widow, and the orphan. I'm sure there's even more that I forgetting.

So I see that God has made it very clear the work that needs to be done. Paul appeals to the heart of the people to be generous in their giving, not to hold back when these needs are not fulfilled. Paul trusts that the Holy Spirit is powerful enough and that the people being true believers will be moved in their hearts to give. Surely if the Holy Spirit is powerful enough to bring people like you and me to salvation He is powerful enough to speak to us about giving.
Surely if God trusts man to do His work in spreading the Gospel we can trust God and man to provide the means to do it.
Praise God it is happening all over the world everyday and will until His return.
This prayer of John to his friend Gaius speaks loudly about how this works. First the soul must prosper and then when the soul prospers all things are added both prosperity and health. 1John 1:2
A prosperous soul will be a soul who gives cheerfully, not out of necessity or obligation.

 

[th1b.taylor]

We are taught in the NT what we are responsible for in giving. This is what God has told us.
Paul specifically tells us us not to muzzle the ox. We see how no one was to be left without their needs met. We see the an evangelist should be supported in their ministry. We see that when there are needs outside our own church we need to take care of others in other assemblies. We see we are to help those who are not Christians at all, the homeless and hapless, the widow, and the orphan. I'm sure there's even more that I forgetting.

So I see that God has made it very clear the work that needs to be done. Paul appeals to the heart of the people to be generous in their giving, not to hold back when these needs are not fulfilled. Paul trusts that the Holy Spirit is powerful enough and that the people being true believers will be moved in their hearts to give. Surely if the Holy Spirit is powerful enough to bring people like you and me to salvation He is powerful enough to speak to us about giving.
Surely if God trusts man to do His work in spreading the Gospel we can trust God and man to provide the means to do it.
Praise God it is happening all over the world everyday and will until His return.
This prayer of John to his friend Gaius speaks loudly about how this works. First the soul must prosper and then when the soul prospers all things are added both prosperity and health. 1John 1:2
A prosperous soul will be a soul who gives cheerfully, not out of necessity or obligation.

AMEN!

 

[agua.]

For the Christian today, it may be wise to counsel that what we hear from God, should line up with the word.

So that is why I suggest - What direction from the word do we have both in the law of Moses, Genesis and the New Testament, that teaches us the attitude that pleases God?

We wouldn't want a younger brother or sister in the Lord giving away their car, which could be their only way to get to and from work, thinking that God told them to do this, when the word says -

But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5:8


JLB

 

[childeye]

I don't tithe and I wouldn't know where to tithe.