Should a Christian Tithe?

[Jethro Bodine]

Sadly you judge people by some standards you have set up.
I don't know anyone who says the things you accuse the majority of the church members of saying at all. In this whole discussion not one person that I can think judged what is in another person's heart when the tithe or give by grace. Not one person has judged anyone else's giving. iLOVE tithes by Malachi and stated he does it with love and from the heart and I posted to him that surely the Lord blesses him for that. He is a gracious giver not giving by necessity or obligation. The amount is not relevant compared to the heart felt, generous giving.

Every person who contrasts tithing with giving cheerfully, as if they are categorically polar opposites, is condemning the one who tithes.

The new nature, the Holy Spirit in us, it is HE the Spirit of God, who produces the fruit of the kingdom in and through us.

I just find it interesting that so many believers defend the deeds of the new nature as being far less abundant and fruitful than what even they say the inferior way of the law produces. It doesn't add up--this great and awesome and powerful new way of the Spirit to serve God, but which in actual practice has not produced at a minimum a multitude of faithful tithers, but instead a multitude of believers who chant the manta of the grace church--"I don't have to do that because I'm not under the law."

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you believe that teaching the Church is under the law, it would cause them to produce the fruit of the kingdom?


JLB

Since 'under the law' has been assigned an unBiblical meaning among many in the church these days, I can't answer your question until I know what 'under the law' means in this question.

 

[veryberry]

Since 'under the law' has been assigned an unBiblical meaning among many in the church these days, I can't answer your question until I know what 'under the law' means in this question.

Please tell...What does "not under the law, but under grace" and "become dead to the law by the body of Christ" mean?

 

[Deborah13]

Every person who contrasts tithing with giving cheerfully, as if they are categorically polar opposites, is condemning the one who tithes.

And who has done that?

I just find it interesting that so many believers defend the deeds of the new nature as being far less abundant and fruitful than what even they say the inferior way of the law produces. It doesn't add up--this great and awesome and powerful new way of the Spirit to serve God, but which in actual practice has not produced at a minimum a multitude of faithful tithers, but instead a multitude of believers who chant the manta of the grace church--"I don't have to do that because I'm not under the law."

And you have not provide ONE example of any grace church who is suffering because people don't give because they aren't taught the Tithing laws and are cheap, loveless, self-centered grace givers.

You do have one thing right though. In churches where they teach Moses' tithing laws, like the Pharisees taught Moses' Law, ((adding and taking away from it), they just might collect more than a church who taught the tithing laws in their entirety seeing that every seventh year no tithes were paid at all, etc..

So are you saying that people need to be lied to or they won't give?

Maybe I just have too much faith in Christian hearts that love the Lord.

Which all this discussion has reminded me several times now that I haven't donated here in quite awhile!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Please tell...What does "not under the law, but under grace" and "become dead to the law by the body of Christ" mean?

Biblically, being 'under the law' means:

1. Being under the condemnation of the law of Moses.
2. Being under obligation to the literal worship, separation, and cleanliness stipulations of the law of Moses as a covenant with God.
3. Being under the power of the law to keep you in bondage to sin.
4. Being under the law as a means to justification.

What being 'under the law' does NOT mean, but what many Christians erroneously means is:

Any attempt to consult or purposely do what is written in the law or have anything to do with it no matter what the reason or purpose for doing so.

 

[Obadiah]

...What being 'under the law' does NOT mean, but what many Christians erroneously means is:

Any attempt to consult or purposely do what is written in the law or have anything to do with it no matter what the reason or purpose for doing so.

I'm another one who is getting curious where you are getting all this information about other Christians too. I've never once heard any Christian say or imply anything like this!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Please tell...What does... "become dead to the law by the body of Christ" mean?

From Romans 7:1-6 we see that in Christ our sin nature has died with Christ on the cross. And since the sin nature--the flesh--has died the law can no longer act as the marriage license that holds us in the 'marital' bondage and authority of the sin nature.

Paul explains that when a spouse dies a person is freed from the marital law--the marriage license--that held them in marital union to that spouse. So, being free from the sin nature--because of the death of sin nature--believers are now free to be joined in marital union to new husband and marital authority Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit now acting as the marriage license that holds us bound in marital union to that new husband and marital authority.

So in Christ we are 'dead to the law' in the sense that it can no longer act as a marriage contract that keeps us in marital bondage and duty to sinful flesh (point #3 in my previous post where I explain what being 'under the law' means, Biblically).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm another one who is getting curious where you are getting all this information about other Christians too. I've never once heard any Christian say or imply anything like this!

This, for example, is from right here in this thread....

This is why God does not want us under the law in any way, shape or form.

 

[Deborah13]

From Romans 7:1-6 we see that in Christ our sin nature has died with Christ on the cross. And since the sin nature--the flesh--has died the law can no longer act as the marriage license that holds us in the 'marital' bondage and authority of the sin nature.

Paul explains that when a spouse dies a person is freed from the marital law--the marriage license--that held them in marital union to that spouse. So, being free from the sin nature--because of the death of sin nature--believers are now free to be joined in marital union to new husband and marital authority Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit now acting as the marriage license that holds us bound in marital union to that new husband and marital authority.

So in Christ we are 'dead to the law' in the sense that it can no longer act as a marriage contract that keeps us in marital bondage and duty to sinful flesh (point #3 in my previous post where I explain what being 'under the law' means, Biblically).

These scriptures are not talking about the sin nature.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Teaching tithing by Malachi, is teaching one must give by the Law or be cursed.
To condemn NT giving is to condemn the Word of God.
To judge people who give by grace is to condemn them using the Law of Moses to do it.

Besides that Malachi is not just about tithing, it's tithes and offerings too, that God was being robbed of.
If someone wants to teach tithes and offerings by the Law fine, do it, just don't LIE about what it says. Especially, don't leave off the part about the curse and just teach a hundred fold blessing. Clever Pharisees out there.

 

[Deborah13]

This, for example, is from right here in this thread....

What post is that, I like to read the whole thing in context.

Sheesh....

They said, God doesn't want us under the Law......

That's true.

 

[agua.]

I'm another one who is getting curious where you are getting all this information about other Christians too. I've never once heard any Christian say or imply anything like this!

I have. I know quite a few who believe consciously trying not to sin is being bound by the law. It's curious.

 

[Deborah13]

Does anyone know or have an idea about why God wouldn't accept money as a tithe?

Does anyone know why only farmers tithed, not fisherman, not clothes makers, leather workers, etc.?

 

[Deborah13]

And then this humble man come along and payed the tithe and offering in full.

Wow kiwidan, I had to read that three times before I got it. He did didn't He.

 

[Obadiah]

I guess I'm lucky to live in an area where the Christians I know are quite different from what you guys are describing. Not even the most liberal of Christians I know (and I know some pretty liberal ones) would try to say we aren't supposed to even try to avoid sin. In all my time as a Christian, that's been a totally foreign concept to me. Of course most of them believe, as do I, that trying to avoid sin isn't what saves us. But salvation isn't the only issue for a Christian. We are also supposed to be God's servants and we are supposed to be his witnesses here on earth. We are supposed to love and respect Him. Living a life of careless sin goes against that. To only worry about our own salvation and only act on things that ensure we are saved is simply selfish and disrespectful to God.

 

[agua.]

I guess I'm lucky to live in an area where the Christians I know are quite different from what you guys are describing. Not even the most liberal of Christians I know (and I know some pretty liberal ones) would try to say we aren't supposed to even try to avoid sin. In all my time as a Christian, that's been a totally foreign concept to me. Of course most of them believe, as do I, that trying to avoid sin isn't what saves us. But salvation isn't the only issue for a Christian. We are also supposed to be God's servants and we are supposed to be his witnesses here on earth. We are supposed to love and respect Him. Living a life of careless sin goes against that. To only worry about our own salvation and only act on things that ensure we are saved is simply selfish and disrespectful to God.

 

[Deborah13]

Because there cows were giving off to much gas and causing global warming?

I'm pretty sure that's not it.....but I'm don't know why. I think Maybe because the tithe had to come from what God Himself created. But that's a big maybe.

 

[agua.]

I'm pretty sure that's not it.....but I'm don't know why. I think Maybe because the tithe had to come from what God Himself created. But that's a big maybe.

What do you mean Deb ? Yahweh created fish, cotton, leather etc.

 

[Deborah13]

I guess I'm lucky to live in an area where the Christians I know are quite different from what you guys are describing. Not even the most liberal of Christians I know (and I know some pretty liberal ones) would try to say we aren't supposed to even try to avoid sin. In all my time as a Christian, that's been a totally foreign concept to me. Of course most of them believe, as do I, that trying to avoid sin isn't what saves us. But salvation isn't the only issue for a Christian. We are also supposed to be God's servants and we are supposed to be his witnesses here on earth. We are supposed to love and respect Him. Living a life of careless sin goes against that. To only worry about our own salvation and only act on things that ensure we are saved is simply selfish and disrespectful to God.

I second that.

What do you mean Deb ? Yahweh created fish, cotton, leather etc.

Oh yeah, I forgot no fish and fowl while I was contemplating. My thoughts were going along the lines of not things made by mans hands, like clothing, etc. finished products that were sold and money given like we do today.
So it couldn't have been for that reason.

 

[agua.]

Oh yeah, I forgot no fish and fowl while I was contemplating. My thoughts were going along the lines of not things made by mans hands, like clothing, etc. finished products that were sold and money given like we do today.
So it couldn't have been for that reason.

Ah oky doky

 

[JLB]

Biblically, being 'under the law' means:

1. Being under the condemnation of the law of Moses.
2. Being under obligation to the literal worship, separation, and cleanliness stipulations of the law of Moses as a covenant with God.
3. Being under the power of the law to keep you in bondage to sin.
4. Being under the law as a means to justification.

What being 'under the law' does NOT mean, but what many Christians erroneously means is:

Any attempt to consult or purposely do what is written in the law or have anything to do with it no matter what the reason or purpose for doing so.

Being under obligation to keep the law of Moses.

Simple.

Any attempt to consult or purposely do what is written in the law or have anything to do with it no matter what the reason or purpose for doing so.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 2 Timothy 3:16

He has delivered us from the dominion of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son. Colossians 1:13

We are in the Kingdom of Jesus Christ.

We are obligated to keep His Law.

1 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice, Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench; He will bring forth justice for truth. 4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, Till He has established justice in the earth; And the coastlands shall wait for His law." 5 Thus says God the Lord, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk on it: 6 "I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness, And will hold Your hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the Gentiles, 7 To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the prison, Those who sit in darkness from the prison house. Isaiah 42:1-7


Grace has a stricter obligation than Moses Law.

28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29

That Truth is what will set people free from the lies of Satan! If people know it!

They can never know this truth while you are teaching them they are somehow under the law of Moses in any form or fashion.



JLB