Should Christians Keep the Ten Commandments Today???

[Brother Lionel]

I guess the subject title said it all. Its a simple question that I feel needs to be addressed within the Christian community. If you believe that we do, why? If you believe that we dont, why?

 

[Tina]

.

Nice Try ! .....

This was discussed at great lengths in your Sunday thread .... remember ?

Are you hoping to rekindle the hot debate by opening another thread with a tad different name ??


.... :biglol ........ :naughty :naughty :naughty

 

[Ben Joiner]

What about all the laws? What about this one:
lev 6
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'When anyone sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the LORD's commands-

3 " 'If the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, he must bring to the LORD a young bull without defect as a sin offering for the sin he has committed. 4 He is to present the bull at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting before the LORD. He is to lay his hand on its head and slaughter it before the LORD.

1 Kings 3
2 The people, however, were still sacrificing at the high places, because a temple had not yet been built for the Name of the LORD. 3 Solomon showed his love for the LORD by walking according to the statutes of his father David, except that he offered sacrifices and burned incense on the high places.
(obviously instead of at the tent of meeting)
1 Kings 9
3 The LORD said to him:
"I have heard the prayer and plea you have made before me; I have consecrated this temple, which you have built, by putting my Name there forever. My eyes and my heart will always be there.

How do we follow this law? A muslim shrine sits there today. Do we have any sons of aaron for preists?

 

[Drew]

What about all the laws?

The entire Torah - all of the Law of Moses, including the 10 commandments has been "retired". This does not, of course, mean that its "OK" to murder, covet, steal, and commit adultery.

The Spirit has "replaced" the Torah and the Spirit "writes the Torah onto our hearts" as Paul would say.

 

[RND]

The Spirit has "replaced" the Torah and the Spirit "writes the Torah onto our hearts" as Paul would say.

Then does that mean those without the Spirit are free to break the law? If not, isn't that evidence that there is a law to obey?

 

[RND]

How do we follow this law?

By accepting the sacrifice of the Lamb of God - Jesus Christ.

A muslim shrine sits there today.

So building another temple there and sacrificing gaost and bulls would mean absolutely nothing.

Do we have any sons of aaron for preists?

You mean you don't consider yourself a priest?

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: ?

 

[Brother Lionel]

.

Nice Try ! .....

This was discussed at great lengths in your Sunday thread .... remember ?

Are you hoping to rekindle the hot debate by opening another thread with a tad different name ??


.... :biglol ........ :naughty :naughty :naughty

nah, just trying to stay away from the back and forth between the sda and the rcc because essentially, that is what's really at play here at the end times... ;)

 

[Brother Lionel]

people....

its not rocket science...

is it still wrong to murder?

is it still worng to lie? to cheat? to steal? to make an idol and bow down to it?

C'mon people!!

 

[Adullam]

What about all the laws?

The entire Torah - all of the Law of Moses, including the 10 commandments has been "retired". This does not, of course, mean that its "OK" to murder, covet, steal, and commit adultery.

The Spirit has "replaced" the Torah and the Spirit "writes the Torah onto our hearts" as Paul would say.

If the Torah is written on a heart it has not been replaced but rather enforced. It is the MEANS of obedience that has changed.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

My understanding is that Jesus stated, in the sermon on the mount, that he came to fulfill the law not abolish it. He then goes on to reiterate how important the 10 commandments are as well as expand on them to show their deeper meaning.

The 10 commandments still apply today and have a deeper meaning than they did in the days of Moses.

 

[Armor of God]

A lot of people miss the big picture.

The 10 commandments should act as a mirror on us and convict us of our sins. They reveal God's nature and his standard of moral living.

We are not saved or made right in the eyes of God by keeping the 10 commandments. As obedient children of God, we should want to keep them as a child wants to obey a parent. Because we love Him, we will do it.

 

[Drew]

The Spirit has "replaced" the Torah and the Spirit "writes the Torah onto our hearts" as Paul would say.

Then does that mean those without the Spirit are free to break the law? If not, isn't that evidence that there is a law to obey?

People "without the Spirit" are going to do what they are going to do. Since a person without the Spirit is not a Christian, I am not sure what the point of your question is.

And let's remember: The Law - the Torah - was only ever given to the nation of Israel and was for them alone.

There are lots of dimensions to this issue but I would suggest that the following are clear:

1. The Torah was only ever given to the nation of Israel;

2. This, of course, does not mean that, during the period before the Law was retired, that non-Jews are "free" to commit murder. That would be like saying its OK for people in country A to commit murder because that country has no formal law against murder.

3. The Torah as a written prescriptive code was retired - abolished - 2000 years ago. It applies to no one now.

4. Using the same principle as per point 2, this does not mean that its now "OK" to commit murder, adultery, etc.

 

[Drew]

people....

its not rocket science...

is it still wrong to murder?

is it still worng to lie? to cheat? to steal? to make an idol and bow down to it?

C'mon people!!

I agree with the spirit of this. Even though the Law was only ever for the nation of Israel, and even though it has been retired, it does not logically follow that anyone is "free" to do all the things that Brother Lionel has listed.

 

[Drew]

My understanding is that Jesus stated, in the sermon on the mount, that he came to fulfill the law not abolish it.

There is no contradiction between fulfilling the law and abolishing it.

Suppose I get on a plane to fly to Paris. When I get to Paris my purpose is fulfilled. Do I keep flying? Of course not.

In the same way, Jesus is the fulfillment of "destination" of Torah, but with the work of Jesus, the Torah is retired.

 

[Drew]

What about all the laws?

The entire Torah - all of the Law of Moses, including the 10 commandments has been "retired". This does not, of course, mean that its "OK" to murder, covet, steal, and commit adultery.

The Spirit has "replaced" the Torah and the Spirit "writes the Torah onto our hearts" as Paul would say.

If the Torah is written on a heart it has not been replaced but rather enforced. It is the MEANS of obedience that has changed.

This a complex issue, but it is clear, for example that Jesus endorsed "rejecting" those elements of the Torah that dealt with food purity:

1. The Torah states that eating certain things makes the Jew unclean;
2. Jesus clearly denies this in Mark 7;
3. We have no choice but to understand that Jesus is saying the purity laws are no longer in force.

Paul is also clear - the entire Torah, including the 10 commandments - has been abolished. As per Romans 7, the Spirit replaces the Law as the guide for our behaviour.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

My understanding is that Jesus stated, in the sermon on the mount, that he came to fulfill the law not abolish it.

There is no contradiction between fulfilling the law and abolishing it.

Suppose I get on a plane to fly to Paris. When I get to Paris my purpose is fulfilled. Do I keep flying? Of course not.

In the same way, Jesus is the fulfillment of "destination" of Torah, but with the work of Jesus, the Torah is retired.

I'm not talking about the Torah. I am talking about the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus was very specific on what folks should do and not do as it relates to the 10 Commandments. They still apply today.

 

[Drew]

[quote="Aero_Hudson":12fbnvjv]My understanding is that Jesus stated, in the sermon on the mount, that he came to fulfill the law not abolish it.

There is no contradiction between fulfilling the law and abolishing it.

Suppose I get on a plane to fly to Paris. When I get to Paris my purpose is fulfilled. Do I keep flying? Of course not.

In the same way, Jesus is the fulfillment of "destination" of Torah, but with the work of Jesus, the Torah is retired.

I'm not talking about the Torah. I am talking about the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus was very specific on what folks should do and not do as it relates to the 10 Commandments. They still apply today.[/quote:12fbnvjv]
We need to be careful. If we say that the 10 commandments still apply, we need to remember that they do not apply as "prescriptive rules". It is now the Spirit that guides the behaviour of the believer. Paul is clear - the entire Torah, which of course includes the 10 commandments is abolished.

Jesus is not telling us to still follow the 10 commandments - He is "replacing" them with guidelines that are more deep, more fundamental.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

[We need to be careful. If we say that the 10 commandments still apply, we need to remember that they do not apply as "prescriptive rules". It is now the Spirit that guides the behaviour of the believer. Paul is clear - the entire Torah, which of course includes the 10 commandments is abolished.

Jesus is not telling us to still follow the 10 commandments - He is "replacing" them with guidelines that are more deep, more fundamental.

Let me be clear...I feel that the 10 Commandments still apply as Jesus described them in his sermon. I agree they are not prescriptive rules. They are a way of life not a checklist.

 

[Free]

I think one of the main problems with thinking that we need to keep the Ten Commandments is that this would mean that things such as murder and stealing are wrong because they are written down. It would follow then that anything not written down in them would not be wrong.

But that clearly is not the case. The Ten Commandments point out things which are wrong regardless of them being written down. This means that there are also other things which are wrong which are not written down.

As for Jesus coming to "fulfill" the law, iirc, that word also means "teach". But I will study it further before making any argument of it. Just keep that in mind.

I think that some need to read Galatians.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

My understanding is that Jesus stated, in the sermon on the mount, that he came to fulfill the law not abolish it.

There is no contradiction between fulfilling the law and abolishing it.

Suppose I get on a plane to fly to Paris. When I get to Paris my purpose is fulfilled. Do I keep flying? Of course not.

In the same way, Jesus is the fulfillment of "destination" of Torah, but with the work of Jesus, the Torah is retired.

Then Christ could have said,,,,I come not to fulfill the law but to abolish it........but He didnt for obvious reasons....