Should Christians pull guns on intruders?

[lovely]

I've know Lovely (Tina) for a few years now and violence is not part of her personality. But she has shown us that love and protection of family in the absence of her (late) husband was indeed Godly.

Thanks, Vic. Reading through these posts, I was starting to feel condemned for desiring to protect my children. I appreciate you understanding and saying so openly. The thing is, I know absolutetly that God was with us and protecting us. The first instinct is to pray to God when there is danger. And I am not convinced that an intent to defend the lives of my children from an intruder is an intent to murder someone. Is defense murder? What is the loving thing to do for the children?

We kept sheep for quite a few years, and I have to tell you that we had to protect them constantly. I was their shepherd, they knew my voice, and they counted on me to keep away the wild dogs and coyotes. Protecting them was part of my role in their lives. As a mother, I have been given the children to train up, to care for, and part of my God-given job is to keep them from harm. God has put it in me to protect and defend them. Certainly if I should be doing it for sheep and lambs, I should be doing it for my children. God is my Father, and while I was doing my mama job, He was doing His job and taking care of a situation that was really beyond my control. He was protecting me, His child. Just because I was doing the things a mother should do for her children, doesn't mean that I wasn't trusting in the Lord. I was simply loving my children with my life by God's grace. I belive that God used it, that He used a bat and a cordless phone, to make this man think twice and drive away. Praise God that he didn't commit a crime, and that we were all protected...it would be a few more years, but all of my children would come to know Jesus. God kept them for Himself.

 

[lovely]

Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Rom. 12:17 and Rom. 12:19 seem to be speaking about getting revenge. But there is a difference between getting revenge and protecting yourself. Revenge involves plotting to get even, to pay back, to even the score, to harm because you have been harmed. Self-defense is an emergency means of using force, if necessary, to protect yourself or others from being harmed or killed. It is not with evil intent, as revenge can be.

Rom. 12:18 seems to admit that it is not always possible to live peaceably with all men.

As for John 18:36, I believe an important point of this verse was to stress the fact that Jesus' kingdom was not an earthly kingdom. That if it were, His servants would fight to protect Him. Not that He was speaking against fighting to protect in general, but that He was speaking against fighting to protect Him. If his servants had fought to protect Him, He would not have been killed and there would have been no cross.

Of course, these are just my own interpretations.

JoJo, I believe you are not adding or taking away here, but rightly dividing. I agree with your 'interpretations'. The Lord bless you.

 

[JoJo]

Not adding or taking away seems to be my MO. lol Thanks, lovely.

 

[Drew]

Okay, but you better take away their kitchen knives, scissors and heavy objects.

No. Those other objects have uses other than killing.

 

[JoJo]

True, true.

 

[researcher]

Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Rom. 12:17 and Rom. 12:19 seem to be speaking about getting revenge. But there is a difference between getting revenge and protecting yourself. Revenge involves plotting to get even, to pay back, to even the score, to harm because you have been harmed. Self-defense is an emergency means of using force, if necessary, to protect yourself or others from being harmed or killed. It is not with evil intent, as revenge can be.

Rom. 12:18 seems to admit that it is not always possible to live peaceably with all men.

As for John 18:36, I believe an important point of this verse was to stress the fact that Jesus' kingdom was not an earthly kingdom. That if it were, His servants would fight to protect Him. Not that He was speaking against fighting to protect in general, but that He was speaking against fighting to protect Him. If his servants had fought to protect Him, He would not have been killed and there would have been no cross.

Of course, these are just my own interpretations.

 

[researcher]

Honestly, Lovely and Researcher did the best job of putting this in it's proper Biblical and Christian perspective. I've know Lovely (Tina) for a few years now and violence is not part of her personality. But she has shown us that love and protection of family in the absence of her (late) husband was indeed Godly.

All these verses being offered have more to do with our every day, one on one relationships with our fellow man than they do when faced with physical and aggressive actions against our loved ones and ourselves.

We can quote all the passive verses until He returns, but I have yet been given a satisfactory answer to the the typical question:

What would you do if the very life of your loved ones (an/or yourself) were in jeopardy? Could you honestly stand there and say, sorry loved ones, but I know of verses that suggest I should not defend you.

Good "luck" with that one!

I'll repeat it again:

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

It is true that Jesus was speaking of His kingdom not being of this world so His people would not fight to defend him!-

The question is then, WHO ARE WE? Are we not the flesh of Jesus the bone of Jesus? Are we not Jesus's body? Are we our own or are we bought with a price?

Would Jesus have physically fought to defend any of His disciples or anyone else when He was walking the earth with them? I think not and there is none other that we are to be like but Jesus. Now what would Jesus have done? Trusted in the Father and called to HIM for help. There is nothing about our "selves" that we have need to protect our job is to die to self daily and let it be CHRIST who lives in us. If it be Christ living in us, then in situations where our families are in danger we will do what Christ does which is He would go to His Father in heaven for salvation and deliverance and protection.

The real question here is Do we believe God is faithful? Do we believe that it is in him that we have our lives and that He is not off the throne and He will answer us ? Can we stand in faith in Him?

 

[Sparkey]

Should Christians pretend when the assess real life danger? There is a difference between residential burglary and home intrusion. When I was a manager with Costco Wholesale responding to the alarm in the middle of the night was part of my job. The alarm company would call me and tell me that the police had been dispatched. Was it my duty to protect the warehouse? Not at all. My job was only to open the door and let the police do their job.

I've personally responded in these situations several times. Yes, I do bring my weapon with me but no, I don't take it with me when I leave my car. I wait. What I would do was find a place in the parking lot, far away from anything else - completely away from the building and where nobody could approach me until I saw the police arrive.

I've spoken to the police and they agree that it is okay for me to arm myself when I anticipate possible life threatening danger. Did I go in with the police after unlocking the door? Never. In point of fact, the police themselves are not eager to enter. One said, "Maybe if we just hang around for a bit "they" will go away." Confrontation isn't high on the list. I've never seen the police run into a situation where any life would be placed in danger including their own lives. Property or life? Even with millions of dollars of property at stake the common sense response seems clear.

In a home burglary the same thought would occupy my mind. There is a difference between burglary and invasion. The first involves criminals who try to break in when you're not home. They don't want to be noticed. The second would more likely be initiated with a knock on the door.

When residential burglaries happen it is planned (for when you're on vacation) or when they think your not home. If they do break in when you're there it's either by accident or an act of financial desperation. Don't panic. Try to figure out where they are. Having a "personal panic button" or a cell phone to call the police makes sense to me. Don't confront the intruder(s). If it is safe and there is a clear path for you to leave? Do so quietly.

Don't "invite" these types of criminal acts. Don't advertise wealth. You have a fancy car? Park it in the garage. Some will think that nice car means you have other stuff that's worth stealing. Leave the outside lights on. Make friends with your neighbors and let them know it's okay for them to call the police if there is anything "suspicious" going on. Make plans with your family (this should include larger plans about how to escape from a fire). Talk about routes out of the house, barricading doors (bathroom in case of break in), how to summon the police and where to meet outside your home. Keep your doors and windows locked (this includes garage doors). Don't confront the intruder(s).

The daylight home invasion is a different matter though. What I'm talking about by "home invasion" is when somebody tries to force their way into your house when they know that you are there. They might ring the doorbell pretending to be somebody who has business with you. Delivery person, somebody wearing a uniform, salesperson, etc. They try to force their way in when you answer the door and then use fear to control you. Don't answer the door to a stranger. Look through the peephole first. It's perfectly okay to speak to any stranger through the door. If they start to act belligerent or strange when you tell them that you won't open the door to strangers, call the police and let them handle it.

Don't count on door chains. Leave the deadbolt secured. It's not difficult to bust through a chain. Somebody who throws their whole weight against a door chain will not be prevented from entry.

When all else fails and somebody actually gains entrance to your home? Run. You've already thought about and planned the escape routes. Flee the situation. Flee means run away as soon as you understand what is happening and do not stop. Do not confront the intruder especially if there is more than one or if they appear armed. If you can not escape to the outside? Hopefully you have solid core doors installed on the inside of your house. If you can go into a room behind a solid core door and barricade yourself in (and you don't have a safe way out), do so. This means putting large furniture in front of the door so that nobody can get in.

This is the reason you have pre-existing escape plans and especially need them if there are other people (family members) in the house (most home invaders will target people who live alone or the elderly but there is no "rule book" for criminals). If you are "caught" treat it like it was a mugging. They may want your credit cards and PINs. They might want to know where you keep your valuables. Don't make assumptions about if they are serious with their threats.

Again, the best way is to avoid it. Don't invite trouble. Have a plan. Know the way out. Don't panic. Don't be a hero. Stay calm internally. Have a way to get help (cell phone or personal panic button and alarm system). Knowing that help is on its way makes all the difference.

On a different note - one of the best things I've been taught about self defense when outside is to know your surroundings, be aware of possible threats and try to get under a vehicle if you are in danger. It is very difficult (if not impossible) to try to get somebody out from under a car or truck when they crawl under and wedge themselves in. It's easy to defend (poke or scrape their hand with a key or better yet, a hatpin).

Oh, and what about that gun? Yeah, take it with you (if it's handy) as you run away or barricade yourself in. Don't make a side trip to get it or any other weapon. Don't go out looking for trouble. Enough trouble will come to you, nobody needs to go looking.

~Sparrow

 

[jasoncran]

nobody said not to try to escape , my house the front door is 20 ft down the hall then throught the kitchen to the french door, the master bedroom is right next to the front door if they come through the front escape is cut off. for me, even if the french door is broken the noise would wake us both but could we escape if he wanted to engange, maybe, if he is interested in robbing the alarm will (hopefully) scare him off.

that being said, we could on and on what if scenarios, and i do like your post. Dont play the hero, even cops do that. they wont enter a house by themselves without backup there(one lone officer responding to the call)

 

[Sparkey]

Thanks, Jason.

Just trying to speak to the issue in a sensible manner. The fact that I have weapons doesn't mean that I need to be foolhardy. That's all. I personally like weapons and am somewhat capable in self defense situations. That doesn't mean that I'll go looking for a fight - I'm an old man, but even a young person will do well to think about things in a sensible manner.

 

[GojuBrian]

Lots of good advice Sparrowhawke, but the majority of it applies to an individual, not a family of two or more people with kids involved.

Kids might be in the bath or bed or whatever scattered throughout the house. If you can all escape safely, then do so, but more than likely you won't have time to get everyone together and just run away. If they intentionally broke into your home while you are home their intentions aren't good.

There was another home invasion locally this weekend. Stay safe at home, be prepared.

 

[lionandthelamb]

well i'm new here so don't think i'm crazy LOL but yes.. i would pull a gun on someone. we have guns in our home for defense only of course and if someone were to break into my house i would definitely defend my family. i would hope that i didn't kill them but i wouldn't take the chance of them killing my husband or baby.

 

[GojuBrian]

well i'm new here so don't think i'm crazy LOL but yes.. i would pull a gun on someone. we have guns in our home for defense only of course and if someone were to break into my house i would definitely defend my family. i would hope that i didn't kill them but i wouldn't take the chance of them killing my husband or baby.

Welcome here!!

 

[lionandthelamb]

thanks goju

 

[justvisiting]

Jer 22:3 So says Jehovah, Do judgment and righteousness, and deliver him who is robbed out of the oppressors's hand. And do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger(this is not a criminal), the fatherless, or the widow, nor shed innocent blood in this place.

Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Although the theme is Christ died for us while we were even enemies...Paul does not knock dying for a righteous man, or a good man.
There is a difference between being the aggressor and one causing the grief...versus the one stopping the grief. I report every break in, theft, murder, physical attack on someone (I reported one man 16 times for this to the police...she finally ended up stabbing him), and I even report the police when they do wrong. My father was an RCMP...and there is no doubt in my mind, as to what to do.

If the people that do these evils are not put in their place and stopped...that just means, you have allowed them to do it, again. Does that sound right?
Common sense is also part of being a Christian. I am sure there is not one person here that may even believe in love their enemies...that they will allow their enemies to abuse their families or property, without justice...and if they did...they aren't good Christians (doctrinally anyway). Defend the helpless. Stop the wrongdoing.
That is Bibilical.

 

[justvisiting]

After stating the previous...I think there is such a thing as those that just like fighting, looking for opportunities to be a white knight...but really...they are building their own ego. Defending the helpless is one thing...looking for a fight is another.

 

[Vic C.]

If the people that do these evils are not put in their place and stopped...that just means, you have allowed them to do it, again. Does that sound right?
Common sense is also part of being a Christian. I am sure there is not one person here that may even believe in love their enemies...that they will allow their enemies to abuse their families or property, without justice...and if they did...they aren't good Christians (doctrinally anyway). Defend the helpless. Stop the wrongdoing.
That is Bibilical.

I love my enemies in the form of pity, empathy, sympathy, charity, etc. but NOT in the form of permissiveness and being over tolerant. In other words, I see no sense in enabling, which is what happens when evil is allowed to go on unabated.


‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’
Edmund Burke

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’
Edmund Burke"



It is truly disturbing that christians are so soon to post the words of unbelievers- and a freemason at that- but to throw aside so often the word of God because the word of God requires them to lean not on their own understanding. We should remember that our ways are not Gods ways, that means that what is COMMON sence to us is unholy to God- Nothing of Gods is COMMON. We are not called to be COMMON but to be peculiar people in the earth.

 

[GojuBrian]

It would be foolish to think that non-believers only speak untruth.

Who cares who said it or what they did, the quote is still the truth.