should christians vote

[jasoncran]

I used to not vote until about 4yrs ago. I changed my mind after a political science class, and my service in afghanistan. I vote with my biblical views. I don't believe that the government can solve all evils, or voting will change the sin issues. Only God redeems, but i believe the body of christ should be the conscience of america.

 

[Drew]

I used to not vote until about 4yrs ago. I changed my mind after a political science class, and my service in afghanistan. I vote with my biblical views. I don't believe that the government can solve all evils, or voting will change the sin issues. Only God redeems, but i believe the body of christ should be the conscience of america.

I agree - we should vote. I think the proper theology that undergirds the practice of voting is this: Jesus has already been enthroned as King of this world, whether the "human" authorities realize this or acknoweldge it. The church is called to challenge our leaders to submit to the Kingship of Jesus. One way we can do this is with our votes.

 

[Imagican]

Or we can simply place our FAITH in God and leave 'the things of this world' to those that LIVE FOR this world.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Free]

Totally agree with Drew.

 

[Imagican]

So, out of ALL that we have been given in instruction concerning separating ourselves FROM 'the world', by Christ AND Paul, you would still contend that we SHOULD 'take part' in the political process OF This World?

Ok.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Free]

You fail to understand what the Christians' role is in this world and what it means to "not be of this world".

 

[samuel]

Do you not know?, that a vote for someone means you stand in full support of any good, or evil they may do. Not I.

 

[Vic C.]

Yes... we are to live in this world but not be of this world. So I agree with Drew and Free.

Honestly MEC and without pretense or sarcasm, the computer is of this world. Your fan or AC is of this world. The fuel that runs the cars, buses, train, planes, etc and the powers that control the flow are of this world. Your ISP and the ISP that this site foes through are of this world. The clean water you drink and the utility companies that supply the waters are of this world.

So, it's governments who supposedly monitor them and set laws into motion concerning taxes, price increases, caps on charges, etc. When we are displeased, we use our vote as one method among many, to voice our opposition. When federal taxes go to things that are considered against Biblical principles, we have in place methods "of this world" to voice our discontent.

Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

... and there's also Romans 13.

 

[Vic C.]

Do you not know?, that a vote for someone means you stand in full support of any good, or evil they may do. Not I.

I'll quote the words of the band Rush, to make a point:

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

So, not choosing still holds you responsible for doing nothing.

 

[Free]

Do you not know?, that a vote for someone means you stand in full support of any good, or evil they may do. Not I.

No, it doesn't mean that anymore than God creating me and giving me the ability to choose between good and evil means he stands in full support of all my choices.

 

[Imagican]

Yes... we are to live in this world but not be of this world. So I agree with Drew and Free.

Honestly MEC and without pretense or sarcasm, the computer is of this world. Your fan or AC is of this world. The fuel that runs the cars, buses, train, planes, etc and the powers that control the flow are of this world. Your ISP and the ISP that this site foes through are of this world. The clean water you drink and the utility companies that supply the waters are of this world.

So, it's governments who supposedly monitor them and set laws into motion concerning taxes, price increases, caps on charges, etc. When we are displeased, we use our vote as one method among many, to voice our opposition. When federal taxes go to things that are considered against Biblical principles, we have in place methods "of this world" to voice our discontent.

Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

... and there's also Romans 13.

Vic,

While I respect your opinions as your own, I can't agree with what you have offered. There is a BIG difference in what I OWN or USE verses 'taking part in the WORKINGS of this world'. God NEVER offered that we are to LIVE beyond the 'use of gravity' or 'air' or 'water', etc..........What was refered to as 'this world are the 'workings of the PEOPLE OF 'this world'. Politics are the EXACT thing that was 'being' refered to.

We are told to abide by the laws of our land. NOT for the sake of SIN or RIGHTEOUSNESS, for we are plainly told that to disobey these LAWS of THIS WORLD will make us ANSWERABLE to the JUDGES of THIS WORLD.

Yes, render to them that OWN what is theirs to dictate.

And we are told to PLACE our FAITH in God and not the rudiments of MEN. That IF there are political factions that go against God and He tires of their folly, HE will END their reign.

But, IF we 'take part' in THEIR WORLD, then we BECOME a 'part of it'.

So, while you certainly have a right to function as you see fit, we CANNOT ignore what is offered in Word or we simply BECOME a part of this world that 'claims' to be 'something outside it'.

So many have chosen to ignore what is offered in Word for the sake of 'self'. This, "well, I don't REALLY believe that it's MEANT to be taken LITERAL'' attitude is EXACTLY what was described in the offerings concerning the Laodiceans; Lukewarm and unable to abide in the righteousness offered up in Word and understanding. Choosing to CHANGE with the world instead of abiding in the everlasting truth as offered in Word.

When it's ALL said and done, what POSSIBLE purpose or BENEFIT do you THINK that you are going to offer YOUR NEIGHBOR in LOVE by 'VOTING' in the policies of THE FLESH. I guess you probably think that the 'space shuttle' is a 'good work' as well.

Not here to PLEASE anyone. I am here simply offering what I UNDERSTAND. Accept it or not, I can PLAINLY back ANY statement that I make through scripture. Not by twisting to FIT what I WANT to believe, but simply conforming to that which has been offered in TRUTH.

While some see my words as 'condemnation', they are NOT. They are words offered in understanding so that those that have YET to come to such understanding are able to SEE the truth when conviction occures.

It's like those that BELIEVE that there is such a thing as a 'good Christian LAWYER'. We CHOOSE to follow that which we CHOOSE to follow. And you CANNOT serve TWO masters. Do any even UNDERSTAND what this REALLY means?

We are bound as followers to follow that which lives in our hearts. If we follow the world, then we will LIVE FOR this world. Regadless of excuses MADE, the truth is the truth and there is NO 'grey matter' in this respect. Only in the minds and hearts of MEN does there EXIST any such 'grey matter'. And only in the hearts and minds of those DEVOID of understanding is there even ROOM for the concept of 'grey matter'.

So, I will agree to disagree over this issue and if anyone cares to ASK anything concerning it, I am more than willing to offer understanding THROUGH scripture that plainly shows that one CANNOT serve TWO MASTERS. Either you ARE of THIS WORLD or you choose to live OUTSIDE of it. What we covet is that which we love and worship. That simple.

On a personal note, do you honestly BELIEVE that Satan is going to allow those that follow in truth to have a POSITIVE influence ON THE WORLD of which he OWNS? We can certainly have an influence on those to whom we are able to offer an example of our love, but we are certainly NOT going to be given POWER to alter HIS WORLD as a whole. Only those that ATTEPT to DO 'wonderous things in the NAME of Christ' would believe such nonsense. Now, these words ARE my OWN. Based on a relatively well rounded understanding of what is offered IN scripture, but they ARE MY own.

Could ANY out there honestly contend that they BELIEVE that Christ would have VOTED for the workings of THIS WORLD. How about Paul or Peter? These are people that were FORCED, due to the nature of WHAT they BELIEVED, to HIDE from this world in order to keep from being persecuted BY IT. So the IDEA of these VOTING is utterly ludicrous.

All we have to DO is look at how the 'tax collectors' were veiwed. Yes, we are to LOVE them like ALL others, but we are certainly NOT to take PART in their folly for the sake of unity with that which is 'unholy'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Oh, and here ya go:

So, YOU THINK that YOU are able to MAKE the world a BETTER PLACE when it took God SENDING His ONLY begotten Son to DO THIS. We can't even fathom 'walking the walk' of Christ, but we are ABLE to alter this world and MAKE it a 'better place'? Yet we KNOW that the world IS LOST.

Hmmmm...... This sounds exactly like, NOT THY will BUT MY will be done.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

And notice how quickly such plain and truthful words can bring 'some' to anger. ALL that I have offered is plain and SIMPLE truth. Yet some will undoubtably take OFFENSE to what I have offered. So MUCH so that they will THEN attempt to attack ME personally.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.........amazing how that works isn't it.

Anyone that cares to HEAR the truth can but ask and I have the answer to THAT as well. I believe MOST already KNOW it and that is WHAT angers them so.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Vic C.]

Ok Mike, I do understand you idealistic approach, though I think you are either misunderstanding or don't believe God is Sovereign in all things. Paul says all government is God ordained. Many people seem to have a difficult time coming to terms with that fact. I don't.

One more thought and I won't bother you anymore: what if your ISP decides to block or filter Christian content... to the point where you can't partake in these little forums on the web? You can't complain to them, they won't listen; you can't complain to your representatives in government because you have no voice.

We are involved in the keeping of net neutrality on the internet so that these things do not happen! I'll spare you the Colonel Jessop speech, but please be thankful that people, even Christians, are fighting for you so that you may continue using the Web as a ministry tool.

Vic out.

 

[Vic C.]

And notice how quickly such plain and truthful words can bring 'some' to anger. ALL that I have offered is plain and SIMPLE truth. Yet some will undoubtably take OFFENSE to what I have offered. So MUCH so that they will THEN attempt to attack ME personally.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.........amazing how that works isn't it.

Anyone that cares to HEAR the truth can but ask and I have the answer to THAT as well. I believe MOST already KNOW it and that is WHAT angers them so.

Blessings,

MEC

No! What angers people is your soapbox dancing! You come here and insist you are right and that all others are wrong. You do NOT have a corner on Truth and to think so borders on arrogance and is very UnChristian-like.

PLEASE stop it?! Thank you! :bigfrown

 

[handy]

If all government is God ordained, then didn't He ordain the government that relies upon it's citizens electing the leaders of government via their vote. And if He ordained that some governments be elected via the vote of the people then isn't is a godly duty then to cast that vote?

 

[Imagican]

If all government is God ordained, then didn't He ordain the government that relies upon it's citizens electing the leaders of government via their vote. And if He ordained that some governments be elected via the vote of the people then isn't is a godly duty then to cast that vote?

Oh no, you didn't really ask ME that? He he he, just jokin'.

Let's see if I can offer this in a way that is NOT perceived as arrogant or 'know it all'. Let me see if I can elicite The Spirit in a conviction of truth.

Let's see............

When we pray, do we NOT place our faith in the WiLL of God?

Who OWNS this planet?

What IS 'the world'?

So far, some have contended that my 'computer' IS the world. Is this WHAT 'the world' IS?

RIGHT NOW, who has CONTROL over the principalities and powers that BE on this PLANET?

WHY did Christ COME?

If one is able to ANSWER these questions in TRUTH, then the answer as to the AFFAIRS of the FLESH are OBVIOUS. If one REFUSES to accept what these answers are, then of course, their understanding is going to be limited by what they CHOOSE to accept or deny.

Now, let me ask this:

Which among YOU right this minute BELIEVES they have the ABILITY TO DISCERN THE TRUTH in what they may or may NOT vote on? Which among us right this minute BELIEVES that they are KNOWING ENOUGH to vote for ANYTHING Concerning the FLESH that is ABLE to make ONE TIT of diffence on this PLANET?

Left up to OUR desire and OUR wishes we would be DOOMED from such mentality. Placing our FAITH in ourselves has NO BEARING on the TRUTH. The Jews BEGGED God for a KING. Remember? That was the WILL OF THE PEOPLE. Was it RIGHTEOUS WILL? What was God's reaction? How did it AFFECT the Jews in the LONG RUN?

Now, let us deal with a little reality. Strike religion of faith OUT OF THE EQUATION. Which among you right this minute will OPEN profess a BELIEF that THEIR vote make ONE BIT OF DIFFERENCE in the DIRECTION that this planet is HEADING? Which of you truly believes and will STATE openly that they believe their vote MATTERS. That through a democratic process, those that represent us TRULY represent US?

Now, take these words for what they are worth. But do yourselves as favor and regardless of how you approach the answers to these questions, be TRUTHFUL with yourselves and SEE if the answers are REALLY what you would LIKE them to BE.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[jasoncran]

Vic A thank you I started voting because in afghanistan I was GETTING SHOT AT SO MOSLEMS COULD, IF THEY VOTE WHY SHOULDN'T I. Now then i do believe that voting and the government is a means ( a method which god could use) to do his will, but the prayer and fasting are effective as well, and should be done routinely.

 

[Imagican]

And allow me to offer this:

Yes, if God SO CHOSE, He is certainly able to USE whatever means He chooses to affect the world in which we live.

But WHY would we be offered ALL the warnings that we HAVE been given to 'separate ourselves FROM the world' if there was NO REASON for such a 'separation'.

Let me add this. Having discussed such issues among NUMEROUS factions of 'Christians', I have found that those that believe 'WOMEN' are ABLE to BE Pastors, Churches where it's OK TO BE GAY. Mega Churches where the women dress like it's a FASHION SHOW. I could go on and on here but I believe this will be enough to show my point.

In each of these instances, when asked HOW they reconcile themselves so far as their behavior verses The Word, I invariably get the SAME response. "Things have CHANGED''. And it's amazing that 'while I agree' with the answer, so FEW that GIVE IT actually UNDERSTAND what they are 'saying'.

It's like being in a concert and hearing the chant of 'hell yeah'. Those chanting it not even REALIZING what they are 'saying'.

So too is this 'things have changed' offering the SAME scenario.

Yes, my friends, things HAVE changed. But I can assure you of one thing and You can 'take it to the bank' as well: The Word of God HAS NOT CHANGED. It is the SAME today, tomorrow, and YESERDAY.

So, while 'things' have changed, God HASN'T.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Cornelius]

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

You can vote if you are part of that Kingdom. We are not of this world, we are traveling through it with the message of our Kingdom, the Kingdom of Light.

God places rulers over nations, not the vote of man.


Rom 13:1 .......... for there is no power but of God; and the powers that be are ordained of God.

every single ruler on this planet ruled, because God needed him to rule. Even the worst and basest of men.