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should christians vote

should christians vote


  • Total voters
    10
Can a Christian vote? Yes.
Should a Christian vote? That's for the individual Christian to decide.
 
Imagican said:
I don't BELIEVE that it will alter YOUR or any others UNDERSTANDING because it is NOT 'my understanding' but that offered from ABOVE.

Mike, You can quit it with your Narcissistic personality disorder. You are not some infallible prophet from God and you never will be.
 
Imagican said:
I don't BELIEVE that it will alter YOUR or any others UNDERSTANDING because it is NOT 'my understanding' but that offered from ABOVE.
God told me that you're wrong.
 
Imagican said:
Mark,

I'm in the process of 'wasting my time'. I am compiling a list of scripture that PLAINLY offers our PLACE in the world.

I don't BELIEVE that it will alter YOUR or any others UNDERSTANDING because it is NOT 'my understanding' but that offered from ABOVE.

But, my purpose is TO TEACH so I will give you what you SAY that you desire and SEE if it has any bearing on YOUR understanding.

Blessings,

MEC

Please do not insult my profession. Teaching is not about shoving your opinions down someone else's throat in an aggressive way.

I have stood up in front of a class of 35 adults and freely admitted I was wrong on some previous point or admitted that I didn't know the answer to a question and would therefore find out and get back to the class. Teaching is as much about gaining knowledge as it is about imparting it. I have actually learned a lot from my students over past 10 years as a teacher in the adult education profession.

If your purpose is to teach, then you should relish my simple request.

Take a tip from a professional in this area. As a teacher, you have a long way to go.
 
Mike,

You claim to be God's prophet. You claim to know and obey the word of God.

So what do you make of humility?
 
Nick_29 said:
You claim to be God's prophet. You claim to know and obey the word of God.

So what do you make of humility?
Allow me to take a stab at the response. God's prophet is being humble. He is merely restating God's truths. And anyone who disagrees are the arrogant ones. They do not understand God's truths because they're blind and/or lack faith in God.

Well, at least, that's what the typical responses generally encompass. It breaks down to "I'm right. You're wrong. And this is true because God says so." When questioned as to how this can be verified, then the response is typically, "You lack faith in God." Rinse. Repeat.
 
Nick_29 said:
Mike,

You claim to be God's prophet. You claim to know and obey the word of God.

So what do you make of humility?

Well Nick, I will offer an answer to the best of my ability.

Yes, we are commanded to BE humble. But that is not a command to BOW to that which is NOT 'of God'. That is not a commnand to COMPROMISE The Word. That is NOT a commandment to NOT follow in truth or TELL OTHERS the truth for the SAKE of humility.

I have NOT ONCE recognized Christ OR His apostles allowing humility to ALTER their offerings OF The Truth. NOT ONCE.

There is a difference in a 'lack of humility and AUTHORITY. So long as one is abiding in the truth, authority in their offerings has NO BEARING on humility.

You have perceived my lack of desire to 'bow' to others inability to FACE the truth as a 'lack of humility'. If that is how you chooe to view my statements, then, by all means, continue in such an understanding.

But IF you are 'of The Spirit', then you WILL recognize the difference in 'humility' and 'authority'. I cannot convince ANYONE of that which is TRUTH. I can ONLY OFFER it. The acceptance is not of my ability, REGARDLESS of HOW I offer it, and can ONLY be understood or received AS The Spirit is able to guide one in such acceptance.

In the secular world in which I live, I am much more inclined to BE humble as perceived of 'this world'.

I am NOT here as 'in a secular world'. I attend and participate on this forums as a 'follower of God and HIs Son'. And in this capacity, there is NO ROOM for 'compromise'. God is NOT a 'democracy' and has no communion with those that CHOOSE to be 'luke warm' in their walk. While the churches now days TEACH such 'luke warm theology', we already have the 'words of Christ' as to their FATE.

So, while your comment was obviously meant as an attempt to point out that through my 'lack of humility' as YOU understand it, to BE some kind of indication of LACK of faith, your attempt is unable to alter the truth. For we were NEVER commanded to SACRIFICE TRUTH for humilities sake and obviously my authority is perceived and accepted in pretty much the SAME manner as that of Christ or His apostles was by MOST so many years ago.

As a matter of FACT, the WAY in which Christ was finally 'put to death' was OVER his authority and the use of it as perceived by those that 'brought Him to trial'.

When it all comes down, if you will note, each and every time that I come to the end of a subject and have found that I am able to offer little more in edification, I will USUALLY offer something like this:

Take it for 'what it's WORTH'. I cannot nor do I THINK that I am able to alter the beliefs of those that have 'bought into' something 'other than' the TRUTH. I am NOT here to alter such beliefs for I am well aware that this is practically an impossibility. What I here to do is offer those that have YET to 'buy into' the offerings of this world and have a sincere desire to learn and understand the TRUTH.

Blessings,

MEC
 
Imagican said:
Aero_Hudson said:
Cornelius said:
God chooses who goes into power.

So if you have voted for the other guy, it means you voted against God's choice.

C

I disagree with this and agree with Mark's take for the most part. At the end of the day, none of us knows beyond the shadow of a doubt what God's will is when it comes to governments, elections and other global issues. We have to do the best we can to decide who we will vote for as citizens of the world and of God.

I think every citizen of the world that has legitimate and free elections in their nation has a responsibility to vote. Voting is your voice and it should be heard.

Then YOU TOO have offered a LACK of faith in God above. You openly ADMIT that you do NOT know what is BEST yet would encourage those LIKE YOURSELF to vote to change things. Hmmmmm.......

Let me see if I have this right, "I really don't KNOW if what I am voting for is what IS God's will, but I'm going to DO IT ANYWAY because that's what I WANT TO DO.

Blessings,

MEC

As Gabe said...Ridiculous!

Noone knows what God's will is on any subject. Does that mean that I should sit in my house and do nothing and make no decisions in and for my life? I think not.

I believe that God gave us the gift of critical thinking that should be used. I have the God given ability to assess my environment, including politics, and to make a decision on how to interact with and influence said environment for the greater good of God. Will I be right all of the time? No. But I would like to think that this is God's way of teaching me something.

I have a question for you...do you know that not voting is God's will?
 
No Aero, what it means is that you should be out there offering your LOVE for your brothers and sisters and testimony of what a wonderous thing has been wrought in you through creation and forgiveness. Expounding upon the TRUTH for the SAKE of those that have yet to 'come TO IT'. Working with your OWN hands and attending to YOUR OWN business so that one day you will be able to be judged according to your DEEDS and WHY you performed them.

If you DO NOT know the will of God nor HOW to inflence your 'environment' FOR THE GREATER GOOD, then your vote is NOT able to be confirmed as ABLE to DO This. You have already admitted it YOURSELF.

But we do not discuss 'the greater good' here. We discuss PERSONAL WILL.

Yes, I know that 'voting' is NOT God's WAY. He is NOT a 'democracy'. He is TRUTH and LIGHT and therefore well beyond the need to VOTE for ANYTHING. He has commanded us to separate ourselves FROM the rudiments OF this world. Some will and MOST won't for the sake of SELF.

It's as plain to see as your face in a mirror to those that are able to LISTEN and FOLLOW instead of placing their desires in the POWER they perceive themselves containing as offered BY this world.

And 'itching ears' do NOT seek the TRUTH. They seek what will APPEASE the 'itching'. What pleases the FLESH and most often in complete and utter opposition to that which is RIGHTEOUS.

Mark,

I have compiled about three pages of scripture. I don't BELIEVE that it will be read by two people, (probably not even you). So I'm going to decline to post it.

What I am going to do though, is offer this:

God was the King of the Jews. That wasn't enough for THEM, (the people), and they BEGGED for a 'fleshly King' like other nations had, (they basically VOTed Him OUT). He bowed to their wishes but warned them from the beginning what would be required of them in order for Him to grant their wishes. We KNOW what that story is.

The Saducees and the Phrasees WERE the Jewish LEADERS of the time of Christ. They WERE the 'givers of' and 'judges of' THE LAW. And we clearly have the words of Christ explaining HOW His people were to consider THEIR places.

We are told to 'judge not' lest 'we BE judged'. We are told to separate ourselves FROM this world. We are told NOT to 'tempt God'.

I have asked some pretty pertinent questions concerning one's ABLILILTY to 'choose' or 'decide' issues that one would 'choose' to vote on.

If one is unable to come to grips with the truth of this issue from what has been offered and through a reading of scripture, I don't know what good offering that SAME scripture again would DO.

But I will leave you with this:

Matthew 4

6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

One 'cannot serve two masters'. I have offered this over and over. Some will understand it and it's importance in this issue, some won't.

We can see the words of Christ offering, "Let the dead burry the dead''. This is an OBVIOUS reference to those that are 'of this world' taking care of OTHERS that are 'of this world'.

If one THINKS that they are ABLE to know the will of God, then I guess to them they are able to attempt to exercise HIS will by voting in the affairs of 'this world'. I happen to KNOW better.

God has informed us that it is HIS power that places those in control and that IF and WHEN He so decides, HE will either allow them to continue in power or will 'take away' their power. I TRUST in His Word. I choose to worship HIM rather than the 'world' that I live in. He has NEVER offered that WE have such power or capacity to DECIDE the fate of this planet, ONLY our OWN.

You are CERTAINLY gifted with 'free-will' to exercise as YOU see fit. And the choices you make in your exercise OF that 'free-will' will BE exactly what you are judged upon when it's time.

I have offered NOTHING that is not plainly laid out in The Word.

Should Christians vote? Only if they want to take upon themselves the RESPONSIBILITIES and FAULTS of This World. For in one simple statement we can CLEARLY SEE what God's attitude is towards those that 'take part in this world's affairs': Judge NOT lest YE BE JUDGED. Do you NOT realize that when you VOTE you ARE, in essence, offering YOUR judgement on issues that you MOSTLY know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT?

Blessings,

MEC
 
Mark62 said:
You have mentioned verses that back up your viewpoint of not voting. I can't seem to find any that could be extended to such a decision. Care to share?

Mark62 said:
Imagican said:
Mark,

I could sit here an waste my time offering you tons of scripture that tells us to 'separate' ourselves FROM the world. But obviously what you perceive this to mean and what I offer are TWO separate understandings.

No. I just asked for what I thought was a simple request. You take the moral high-ground as if you are sole arbiter on interpretation of the Bible. When I ask for which verses you are using to justify your opinion that voting is somehow unbiblical, you decline to provide.

I am not asking for you to quote the verses, just a brief list of some of them. I'm sure for a person with your depth of Bible knowledge, such a request should be but a trifle. That will give me an opportunity to read them and see if, in my humble opinion, you are taking them out of context.

I can only assume that if they are not provided, no such verses actually exist.

Mark62 said:
Oh, still waiting for those verses. :study

Imagican said:
Mark,

I have compiled about three pages of scripture. I don't BELIEVE that it will be read by two people, (probably not even you). So I'm going to decline to post it.

If these are the scriptures that Mark has repeatedly requested to see in regards to whether or not the Bible teaches that we are not to vote, I'd like to see them as well. As I remember Mark specifically requested seeing these Scriptures so that he can check to see if they are being taken out of context. And I agree with him, there is no need to post the entire verse, just the references so that they can be looked at in context. If your interpretations on these Scriptures are correct, there is no reason to not post them. I'm sure that Mark wouldn't keep asking for the Scriptures if he had no interest in reading them, and I would like to read them as well. That's two people, so go ahead and post. We probably don't need all three pages, just one page of the most compelling Scriptures that teach that it is wrong for Christians to vote.
 
As a matter of fact, Mike, for me (not speaking for Mark here), I would be just as satisfied with one or two references that show, within context, that just because we are part of God's kingdom, this means we are to forgo all our civil rights granted to us by whatever nation we live in. I had posted a rather lengthy (sorry) post on how Paul repeatedly exercised his rights as a Roman citizen in the matter of his arrest, so I would assume that Paul was acting outside of God's will in that matter if there are clear commandments that we are not to do so.
 
Oh, and the poll plainly offers that I am not the only one that is able to grasp the significance of 'taking part in the rudiments of this world' so far as voting is concerned. As a matter of fact, I am pretty much in almost disbelief that so many voted in the correct manner. For usually, in such cases of discernment, men choose to follow their will instead of what is indicated by God through His Word. Choosing freedom and liberty over God's Will for the sake of the lack of a law to show them the truth.

Blessings,

MEC
 
I am not sure how voting can be linked to serving two masters? Having some trouble on this one and agree with others that if this is so than Imagician should be able to produce some scripture that states this as such. So far, zilch.

If I am to accept your arguement Imag, then are not all of us guilty of serving two masters...

- We all pay taxes I assume. Is this not serving the master of our nation's government?
- We all buy consumer goods. Is that not serving the master of our economy and capitalism?
- Most of us work to get money. Is this not serving the master that is our company as well as our economy and ourselves?
- Most of us watch TV. Is this not serving the master of the networks and the commercials they show.

If you connect voting to serving two masters then I would argue that just about everything you do to support yourself with the examples above and many more should also be linked in this way. Personally, I think it is absurd to do so and have found nothing in scriptures or other biblical teachings that would entertain such a concept. :confused
 
Hey guys and gals.

Do you remeber the story of the 'hurricane' that was coming.

A man, believing himself to be following God, lives in an area where there is a hurricane warning issued. He watches it on his television and says to himself, "I NEED NOT heed such a warning for I have FAITH in God". The next day, a police officer knocks at his door and tells him, "You must evacuate for there is a hurricane coming''. He replies to the officer, "I don't NEED to evacuate for I have faith in God''. The next day the wind begins to blow and the rain starts. It doesn't take long until the water rises and the man i forced to crawl to his roof to keep from drowning. While on the roof, a boat comes by and those in it yell to him, "Jump in, the waters still rising and there's no telling when it will stop.'' The man offers, once again, the SAME reply,''My trust is in God''. Then, as the water reaches almost the PEAK of his roof, a helecopter flies up and they drop a rope yelling, "Grab the rope before it's TOO LATE". The man answers one LAST TIME, "My faith is in God, not your helicopter".

Before long the water rises and the man is swept away and drowns. Upon awakening, he find himself in the presence of God. He looks over and says, God, what happened. I placed my faith in YOU and I drowned. God's reply; "Well first I sent YOU a warning on the TV. Then I sent a police officer PERSONALLY to your door, and then I sent a BOAT to your very FEET, then a helicopter that droped a rope RIGHT INTO YOUR HANDS. What MORE could I have DONE?

So, accept this for what it is. It's JUST a story. But the message of it has some pretty significant points.

I have attempted to point out MANY things here on the forums. I have USED scripture to plainly show the truth behind the message. Yet more often than not, my words go completely unheeded and USUALLY refuted. So, what MORE would you like ME to do?

And BEFORE one attempts to 'turn this around', NO, if one is UNABLE to KNOW what is best to VOTE for, they were NOT given this RIGHT by God to interfere in that which they have NO BUSINESS, (so far as God's will is concerned), to venture. I don't have ANY reason to believe that a SINGLE vote by ANYONE claiming that it is ABLE to be used for the benefit of God or HIs PEOPLE, has EVER altered ANYTHING in a direction that would be APPROVED of God.

Blessings,

MEC
 
Ok, thanks to MEC, the beating of this dead horse is over. This topic has run it's course.
 
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