should christians vote

[Imagican]

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

You can vote if you are part of that Kingdom. We are not of this world, we are traveling through it with the message of our Kingdom, the Kingdom of Light.

God places rulers over nations, not the vote of man.


Rom 13:1 .......... for there is no power but of God; and the powers that be are ordained of God.

every single ruler on this planet ruled, because God needed him to rule. Even the worst and basest of men.

Thank you Cornelius. I was wondering if anyone else was going to come along and offer EXACTLY what you have.

I have found that many 'Christians' now days, believe that it's OK to alolow themselves to become UTTERLY entangled in the methods and madness of this world. They will VOTE for a politician that 'claims' to be a 'Christian' and then WONDER why things ONLY get WORSE instead of 'better'. Some actually BELIEVE that a man CAN 'serve TWO masters'. And when someone comes along and attempts to offer understanding, they are immediately treated like leapers or outcasts.

Funny, but that is EXACTLY how 'the world' treated the prophets, Christ AND the apostles.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[stovebolts]

Wait a second guys...

Your actually making a case for us NOT to vote?... BTW, that's the worst example of scripture I've seen in awhile... Just because Scripture says xy and z, doesn't mean it means xy and z. If that's the case, I think if your a "true" christian, then you wouldn't have any eyes left. (mt 5:9)

As Christians, we are supposed to be a force for good on this earth, and as such, why shouldn't we vote with the best Christian values and intentions we poses for living on this earth, now? Jesus spoke to meeting the needs of people, here, now more than he spoke of the afterlife. In one parable, he even goes as far as to say that one greedy man who built bigger barns was killed... why? Because hunger was a real issue. A fleshly issue! And this guy built bigger barns to store his grain while those around him died of starvation. I disagree MEC and C. God does care about us in this life and how we treat each other in this life.

God does rule over the USA, and as such, he has granted us the privilege to vote. Don't waste that talent.

Yes, God does put rulers over the nations, but often, he does so through the actions of man. Are we praying for a better Christian nation? If so, then God empowers us to be the solution to those prayers. It's like, have you ever prayed for something and then bam, here comes another person that comes along and is an answer to that prayer? My point? Often, God uses people to be the conduit for His Glory, even when those people may not be the most godly people around. A quick review of the OT makes this very clear (The story behind Cyrus would be one of many, many examples that we could reference)

If you don't think that we should vote, then perhaps you shouldn't be praying for our nation and your talent shall be revoked. (Mt. 25 and the parable of the talents)

 

[handy]

Which among YOU right this minute BELIEVES they have the ABILITY TO DISCERN THE TRUTH in what they may or may NOT vote on? Which among us right this minute BELIEVES that they are KNOWING ENOUGH to vote for ANYTHING Concerning the FLESH that is ABLE to make ONE BIT of diffence on this PLANET?

I do. I believe I have the gift of being able to discern truth as do most Christians who have the Holy Spirit. I believe that one can apply Biblical principles in voting, I do it all the time. As for making one bit of difference on this planet, God wills what He wills. But, one of His commandments for His children is that we are to submit to governing authorities. "For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God." (Romans 13:1)

Here in the US, the supreme governing authority, despite what Congress and the President would try to tell us, is the Constitution. Going by what Romans 13 says, the Constitution was established by God. And the Constitution states:

Article 1, Section 2: The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.

Amendment 17: The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.

Article 2, Section 1: Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

In the state of Idaho, where I live, as in most states, "the Manner as the Legislature thereof" is that a popular vote for President be held and the winner of the popular vote gains all electoral votes. However, here in Idaho there is nothing binding the electors to vote with the poplar vote.

This is what our God-established governing authority tells us that our responsibility is as far as voting. It is considered both a right and a responsibility, but we do have the freedom to not vote. Whether we vote or not again calls for that discernment that Mike seems to think we cannot have, but which we most certainly do have.

God established this Constitutional form of government and established that it would operate by the vote of the people. We, as Christians, can certainly withhold our vote, which is a type of voting as well, but the understood responsibility on the part of American citizens is that we are to, under normal circumstances, vote our conscience.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

You can vote if you are part of that Kingdom. We are not of this world, we are traveling through it with the message of our Kingdom, the Kingdom of Light.

God places rulers over nations, not the vote of man.


Rom 13:1 .......... for there is no power but of God; and the powers that be are ordained of God.

every single ruler on this planet ruled, because God needed him to rule. Even the worst and basest of men.

Thank you Cornelius. I was wondering if anyone else was going to come along and offer EXACTLY what you have.

I have found that many 'Christians' now days, believe that it's OK to alolow themselves to become UTTERLY entangled in the methods and madness of this world. They will VOTE for a politician that 'claims' to be a 'Christian' and then WONDER why things ONLY get WORSE instead of 'better'. Some actually BELIEVE that a man CAN 'serve TWO masters'. And when someone comes along and attempts to offer understanding, they are immediately treated like leapers or outcasts.

Funny, but that is EXACTLY how 'the world' treated the prophets, Christ AND the apostles.

Blessings,

MEC

I am a bit confused by your responses. You are claiming because you do not vote that you are not "UTTERLY entangled in the methods and madness of this world". Yet, as someone else already pointed out, you do purchase goods. Not just goods that keep you alive like food, shelter and the like but more than likely some luxury items like a computer, new books to read, TVs, maybe video game consoles, iPods and other things.

You do know that as a result you are "UTTERLY entangled in the methods and madness of this world". By making purchases of any kind you are contributing to the national economy which feeds the GDP which feeds taxes you pay which feeds what our government funds which feeds the war in Iraq and Afghanistan which feeds etc.etc.etc.

Whether we like it or not, if you pay taxes and buy goods you are "UTTERLY entangled in the methods and madness of this world".

Aero out!

 

[Imagican]

Aero,

Once again I find myself trying to explain something so basic that i question HOW one could READ the Word and NOT already KNOW the answer to the question that you have posed.

God NOR His Son has EVER told us that we cannot OWN an ass, or a tub, or the means to preserve food. That is NOT what is MEANT by separating ourselves FROM the world. Now, some of the items that you have mentioned may well fall into the subject depending on how they are used and what IMPORTANCE one places in them. These ARE matters of the individual's heart.

But what is MEANT by the 'separation' if the POLITICS of this PLANET. This message is plain to see if one takes what is offered in CONTEXT.

Paul offers over and over that the base things of this world have been chosen to confound the WISE things. Get it? It's not talking about someone who OWNS absolutely NOTHING. It's refering to base as in inconsequential. The SIMPLE to confound the WISE.

Now, what does this TRULY MEAN?

Or how about this:

One CANNOT serve TWO masters. Do you understand this one?

If so, explain to me how one can concentrate on the workings of this planet and STILL serve God. And this question is NOT directed at ONLY YOU. It is open to any that choose to enter such a debate.

The churches have taught that many of such things ARE possible. Many have chosen to use their influence in an attempt to 'change' this world. Failing to understand the REASON that we were told to separate ourselves to START WITH.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Free]

Wow, you're really over the top with this one Mec.

If so, explain to me how one can concentrate on the workings of this planet and STILL serve God.

Do you not have a job and bills to pay? Do you pay taxes?

Many have chosen to use their influence in an attempt to 'change' this world.

And that is precisely what the gospel is about. Do you not believe in Jesus' command to "go into all the world and make disciples?" Do you not understand the consequences of such actions? Do you think the Kingdom of God is simply about the return of Christ?

Failing to understand the REASON that we were told to separate ourselves to START WITH.

And you have utterly failed to understand what is meant by not being of this world and why.

 

[samuel]

1 Blessed is the man
who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked
or stand in the way of sinners
or sit in the seat of mockers.

2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
and on his law he meditates day and night.

3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water,
which yields its fruit in season
and whose leaf does not wither.
Whatever he does prospers.

When you figure this one out, you will have your answer.

 

[Free]

Samuel,

If you're referring to me and others who believe we ought to vote, then you really need to understand what it means to not "stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers."

As has been said, to not vote is a choice, and not one God approves of.

 

[Imagican]

Samuel,

If you're referring to me and others who believe we ought to vote, then you really need to understand what it means to not "stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers."

As has been said, to not vote is a choice, and not one God approves of.

Free,

An opinion is one thing. But here we deal with an issue that CAN be compared to scripture.

Now, before I start PILING it one you, do US a favor and SHOW US that 'voting' is RIGHTEOUS or that it is 'something that God WANTS us to DO'.

You STATED that NOT voting is something that God does NOT approve of. What a blatant statement. But, IF you truly BELIEVE what you have stated, simply give ONE piece of evidence that SHOWS us that NOT VOTING is disapproved of BY GOD.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Oh, and after that, TELL us how we can be ASSURED that you have ANY IDEA of the PROPER THING to vote FOR.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Vic C.]

You are welcome, Jason.

If all government is God ordained, then didn't He ordain the government that relies upon it's citizens electing the leaders of government via their vote. And if He ordained that some governments be elected via the vote of the people then isn't is a godly duty then to cast that vote?

Quite correct Dora. It is Paul that says woman should not have authority over men and that's acceptable to the few in this thread that are against voting. But when Paul, who gets his authority from Jesus, says all governments are ordained by God, they will still insist voting is a no no and quote obscure, unrelated verses. This really needs to stop. It makes for bad teaching and will really confuse newcomers and new Christians. This brings us right back to casting stumbling blocks in front of beleivers who are weaker in faith and knowledge.

Now, before I start PILING it one you, do US a favor and SHOW US that 'voting' is RIGHTEOUS or that it is 'something that God WANTS us to DO'

I have, we have. You are blinded by your own desire to be "correct". ... and do not begin to pile on the righteous banter on anyone. Please, I'm warning you, don't do it MEC!

 

[Free]

An opinion is one thing. But here we deal with an issue that CAN be compared to scripture.

Now, before I start PILING it one you, do US a favor and SHOW US that 'voting' is RIGHTEOUS or that it is 'something that God WANTS us to DO'.

You STATED that NOT voting is something that God does NOT approve of. What a blatant statement. But, IF you truly BELIEVE what you have stated, simply give ONE piece of evidence that SHOWS us that NOT VOTING is disapproved of BY GOD.

If it's a specific verse you're looking for that says "voting is righteous", I'll provide one when you provide one that says "voting isn't righteous". We both know that there are no verses stating either way anything specific about voting.

This is about the overall Christian life and how we are to live in this world to reflect and be a part of the Kingdom of God. We are fortunate enough to live in a society where we have a say through our vote and God-given freedom.

Again, I ask you "Do you not have a job and bills to pay? Do you pay taxes? Do you not believe in Jesus' command to 'go into all the world and make disciples?' Do you not understand the consequences of such actions? Do you think the Kingdom of God is simply about the return of Christ?"

As has been pointed out already, do you not believe what Paul wrote in Romans 13:1-2:

1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

 

[turnorburn]

Voting is very important we all should, in slang its referred to as the lesser of two
evils. God will bless or curse a nation according to its deeds, and yes he does put
people into positions giving them the right to chose between what is right or
wrong same as you or me, we all have a conscience...


turnorburn

A question to Vic, how did Paul the Apostle get in to this.

 

[Adullam]

A Christian should be in a country as a sojourner, but not of a country. A Christian has a different country in the heavenlies. Voting ties one to this world. Do we walk by faith or opinions?

The kingdom of God is not of this world. Spiritual ones know this! :yes

 

[Free]

The kingdom of God is not of this world. Spiritual ones know this! :yes

:bigfrown Let's not get into stating who is spiritual and who is not. The kingdom of God is not of this world but it is very much a part of this world.

Maybe you can answer these questions I posted to another:

Do you not have a job and bills to pay? Do you pay taxes? Do you not believe in Jesus' command to 'go into all the world and make disciples?' Do you not understand the consequences of such actions? Do you think the Kingdom of God is simply about the return of Christ?

 

[stovebolts]

2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, If any will not work, neither let him eat.

Sounds pretty clear to me... I believe Paul was a tent maker ;)

 

[stovebolts]

The kingdom of God is not of this world. Spiritual ones know this! :yes

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.

And this points to a profound mystery...

Luke 17:21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

When we proclaim the gospel, we proclaim the risen Christ, and by doing so, we affirm a future judgment in a present reality.

 

[samuel]

Read 1st. Corinthians Ch. 6, and tell me what you think about this?.

 

[Vic C.]

...A question to Vic, how did Paul the Apostle get in to this.

Hi Lee,

You already know this, but what the hey...

Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Acts 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Acts 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Acts 9:8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
Acts 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

:amen

 

[Free]

Read 1st. Corinthians Ch. 6, and tell me what you think about this?.

This passage is dealing with a very specific instance of the believers not being able to work things out among themselves, which they ought to be able to do, and instead "going to law" (I'm assuming something akin to suing) and dragging it into the secular arena. Nothing more.