should christians vote

[Free]

Although there are several outstanding questions to which I am still awaiting answers, I want to ask a few more related ones:

Are our talents and abilities regarding our vocations and various lines of work God given? That is, has God given everyone the necessary tools to do what it is that they do and does he call people to specific vocations?

 

[Vic C.]

Although there are several outstanding questions to which I am still awaiting answers, I want to ask a few more related ones:

Are our talents and abilities regarding our vocations and various lines of work God given? That is, has God given everyone the necessary tools to do what it is that they do and does he call people to specific vocations?

Yes and I am living proof. I have a natural talent for playing guitar and specific talents in the Computer and Networking and Alarm industry with no formal training whatsoever... all God-given talents. And despite Jeff's opposition to my playing guitar at church :D the only real purpose I can think of for this God given guitar-playing talent is to use it to worship my God! :amen

Your talents are a gift from God. What you do with those talents are your gift back to HIM. :yes

 

[turnorburn]

Thanks Vic I welcome your posts anytime and yes I did know that, now, either I
skipped over this or I'm too old for this.. :yes

Matthew 22 20: And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto
Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.


turnorburn

 

[jasoncran]

So to those don't believe in voting should christians be soldiers, hold office or any government job? just curious.

 

[samuel]

1 St. Corinthians 6 is not only dealing with a property issue, which Paul says they should be able to work out among themselves. He is also chiding them for going before a heathen! court. In effect he is saying that the heathen court, should not be involved in the business of believers.

Now since Lawyers are politicians, and for the most part heathens, or would be Christians. Should we be involved in the process of electing them ??. Is this not taking part in a worldly process of electing leaders?, don't we already have a leader, should we pledge allegiance to anyone else?. After all voting for someone is placing your faith in that person, that they will do what they said they would. Politicians are like fishermen, if you know that little story. If not: All fishermen are liars, except you and me, and I am not sure about you.

 

[Free]

1 St. Corinthians 6 is not only dealing with a property issue, which Paul says they should be able to work out among themselves. He is also chiding them for going before a heathen! court. In effect he is saying that the heathen court, should not be involved in the business of believers.

Now since Lawyers are politicians, and for the most part heathens, or would be Christians. Should we be involved in the process of electing them ??. Is this not taking part in a worldly process of electing leaders?, don't we already have a leader, should we pledge allegiance to anyone else?. After all voting for someone is placing your faith in that person, that they will do what they said they would. Politicians are like fishermen, if you know that little story. If not: All fishermen are liars, except you and me, and I am not sure about you.

As I stated, Paul's main point is that they have "gone to law" against each other. The fact that they do it before unbelievers is just something that Paul finds all the more incredible. But to say that we should therefore not have any part in who is in involved in the legal and political systems is to go beyond what the text is stating.

Let's look further at this passage, there is something else which you seem to have overlooked:

1 Cor 6:1-4, "1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 4 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge?"

If Christians will one day judge the world and angels and Paul is chiding them for not even being able to judge small matters, does it not follow that there ought to be Christian lawyers, judges, and politicians who are able to judge in a manner worthy of Christ? How would they get into such positions if we do not vote them in? If we are to judge the world later, why cannot we also do so now?

There is more that can be said but I have yet to receive answers for all previous questions, which you are free to answer as well.

 

[samuel]

I would like to discuss this more, but I am just not up to it. I am getting so fed up with computers, I think they should go the way of voting. I really! just don't want to mess with this thing anymore today.

 

[jasoncran]

Samuel i'll pray for you and i know that frustration

 

[Mark62]

Just because we are Christians I don't think it means we should give up on our democratic right to vote. Does that mean that no Christians should enter politics? Don't we need Christians in as many fields of work as we can to help spread the Word?

Here is a thought. My guess is that pretty much everyone who has posted to this topic over the past week is from the USA. I'm not, I'm from Australia. We are the only country formed by the popular vote and here voting is compulsory!! Yes, thats right at all 3 levels of government: local, state and Commonwealth, come election time you must attend a polling booth. We have a low informal vote so we take our demcratic rights very seriously, Christian or not.

So my question is, given the right to vote, why wouldn't you when so many in this world cannot? Maybe by voting you protect the very system that protects your right to worship as you wish.

 

[shad]

should christians vote

I say no because Jesus says "let the dead bury their own dead". We should let the world handle their own problems. Jesus' servants have many other responsibilities as His followers.

 

[Free]

Shad, please read through this thread and answer my as of yet unanswered questions.

 

[Imagican]

An opinion is one thing. But here we deal with an issue that CAN be compared to scripture.

Now, before I start PILING it one you, do US a favor and SHOW US that 'voting' is RIGHTEOUS or that it is 'something that God WANTS us to DO'.

You STATED that NOT voting is something that God does NOT approve of. What a blatant statement. But, IF you truly BELIEVE what you have stated, simply give ONE piece of evidence that SHOWS us that NOT VOTING is disapproved of BY GOD.

If it's a specific verse you're looking for that says "voting is righteous", I'll provide one when you provide one that says "voting isn't righteous". We both know that there are no verses stating either way anything specific about voting.

This is about the overall Christian life and how we are to live in this world to reflect and be a part of the Kingdom of God. We are fortunate enough to live in a society where we have a say through our vote and God-given freedom.

The Kingdom of God does NOT exist IN THE WORLD. And you BELIEVE that we are FORTUNATE in having a VOICE in this WORLD? That is EXACTLY what I have attempted to point out since my first post on this thread.

Again, I ask you "Do you not have a job and bills to pay? Do you pay taxes? Do you not believe in Jesus' command to 'go into all the world and make disciples?' Do you not understand the consequences of such actions? Do you think the Kingdom of God is simply about the return of Christ?"

Of course I do Free. I am a carpenter. And we ARE to live UNDER the governing authority. The Kingdom of God are those that submit to HIS WILL.

As has been pointed out already, do you not believe what Paul wrote in Romans 13:1-2:

1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

I BELIEVE in every WORD written by Paul. But you have offered NOTHING in the words above that have ANYTHING to DO with 'voting' or TAKING PART in THE GOVERNING. You point out these words, how about the ones offered by Paul telling those that 'take their brothers to court' being basically an abomination? Don't you 'get it'? The WORLD that we ARE to separate ourselves FROM is that secular entity in which there is NO GOD, (or gods of their OWN making).

Not OUR will be done, but THY will be done, ON EARTH as it IS in heaven.

How about explaining to us how YOU THINK that you are able to VOTE on what IS GOD'S WILL.
Blessings,

MEC

 

[handy]

How about explaining to us how YOU THINK that you are able to VOTE on what IS GOD'S WILL.

Already did.

 

[shad]

Shad, please read through this thread and answer my as of yet unanswered questions.

Please forgive me, Free, I did not know you asked me a question. what was it?

thank you.

 

[jasoncran]

An opinion is one thing. But here we deal with an issue that CAN be compared to scripture.

Now, before I start PILING it one you, do US a favor and SHOW US that 'voting' is RIGHTEOUS or that it is 'something that God WANTS us to DO'.

You STATED that NOT voting is something that God does NOT approve of. What a blatant statement. But, IF you truly BELIEVE what you have stated, simply give ONE piece of evidence that SHOWS us that NOT VOTING is disapproved of BY GOD.

If it's a specific verse you're looking for that says "voting is righteous", I'll provide one when you provide one that says "voting isn't righteous". We both know that there are no verses stating either way anything specific about voting.

This is about the overall Christian life and how we are to live in this world to reflect and be a part of the Kingdom of God. We are fortunate enough to live in a society where we have a say through our vote and God-given freedom.

The Kingdom of God does NOT exist IN THE WORLD. And you BELIEVE that we are FORTUNATE in having a VOICE in this WORLD? That is EXACTLY what I have attempted to point out since my first post on this thread.

Again, I ask you "Do you not have a job and bills to pay? Do you pay taxes? Do you not believe in Jesus' command to 'go into all the world and make disciples?' Do you not understand the consequences of such actions? Do you think the Kingdom of God is simply about the return of Christ?"

Of course I do Free. I am a carpenter. And we ARE to live UNDER the governing authority. The Kingdom of God are those that submit to HIS WILL.

As has been pointed out already, do you not believe what Paul wrote in Romans 13:1-2:

1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

I BELIEVE in every WORD written by Paul. But you have offered NOTHING in the words above that have ANYTHING to DO with 'voting' or TAKING PART in THE GOVERNING. You point out these words, how about the ones offered by Paul telling those that 'take their brothers to court' being basically an abomination? Don't you 'get it'? The WORLD that we ARE to separate ourselves FROM is that secular entity in which there is NO GOD, (or gods of their OWN making).

Not OUR will be done, but THY will be done, ON EARTH as it IS in heaven.

How about explaining to us how YOU THINK that you are able to VOTE on what IS GOD'S WILL.
Blessings,

MEC

So christians shouldn't work for the government in your opinion, a police officer is deputised by an elected official, and what about the other fields of government. not all government jobs are political , but are controlled by elected officers(ie look at your local courts, and public works,)

 

[Mark62]

Imagican

Without trying to bamboozle with capital letters etc and possibly misquoting scripture...

Do you vote? yes or no

 

[stovebolts]

Although there are several outstanding questions to which I am still awaiting answers, I want to ask a few more related ones:

Are our talents and abilities regarding our vocations and various lines of work God given? That is, has God given everyone the necessary tools to do what it is that they do and does he call people to specific vocations?

Yes and I am living proof. I have a natural talent for playing guitar and specific talents in the Computer and Networking and Alarm industry with no formal training whatsoever... all God-given talents. And despite Jeff's opposition to my playing guitar at church :D the only real purpose I can think of for this God given guitar-playing talent is to use it to worship my God! :amen

Your talents are a gift from God. What you do with those talents are your gift back to HIM. :yes

Hey Vic,

For the record, If God has given you the talent to play the guitar as part of your corporate worship, or elsewhere, by all means do not squander that talent. In other words, I have no opposition to you or others using musical instruments to praise God in worship. In the same breath, while some feel it odd that where I attend, we do not use musical instruments in our corporate worship, I think it mindful that what matters above all else, is that worship is performed in spirit and truth. :yes

What I do oppose, is when worship becomes a form of entertainment where the focus is more on those entertaining, and not our Lord, but even then, when I look at church's like Willow Creek in Chicago (I was there for Easter) who really do put on a very good show, I have to realize who they are targeting and to that end, they are using their talents to truly serve our God.

Now, back on topic, Should Christians vote? I'd say absolutely!

Grace and Peace,
Jeff

 

[Mark62]

What I do oppose, is when worship becomes a form of entertainment where the focus is more on those entertaining, and not our Lord, but even then, when I look at church's like Willow Creek in Chicago (I was there for Easter) who really do put on a very good show, I have to realize who they are targeting and to that end, they are using their talents to truly serve our God.

Now, back on topic, Should Christians vote? I'd say absolutely!

Grace and Peace,
Jeff

Jeff

A very valid point on gifts and talents. My wife and I are involved in the music ministry at our church, both playing while I also help choose the songs for our service. Our church is very mindful of making sure that our contributions do not cross the line from good quality music to performance. This is an area I have struggled a bit with in the past as I play more than instrument on any given Sunday depending on the songs chosen.

1 Corinthians 12 is very clear on our contributing our gifts for the betterment of our church "the body of Christ". We had a sermon on this only yesterday and the point was made that just because you have a gift, doesn't mean you have to use it. For example if you had a church who had 12 guitarists, it doesn't mean that all 12 have to play or be involved in that ministry, maybe they have other gifts that are needed elsewhere. There have been times when we have stepped back from the music ministry in the past and others have stepped in to fill the gaps.

 

[jasoncran]

What I do oppose, is when worship becomes a form of entertainment where the focus is more on those entertaining, and not our Lord, but even then, when I look at church's like Willow Creek in Chicago (I was there for Easter) who really do put on a very good show, I have to realize who they are targeting and to that end, they are using their talents to truly serve our God.

Now, back on topic, Should Christians vote? I'd say absolutely!

Grace and Peace,
Jeff

Jeff

A very valid point on gifts and talents. My wife and I are involved in the music ministry at our church, both playing while I also help choose the songs for our service. Our church is very mindful of making sure that our contributions do not cross the line from good quality music to performance. This is an area I have struggled a bit with in the past as I play more than instrument on any given Sunday depending on the songs chosen.

1 Corinthians 12 is very clear on our contributing our gifts for the betterment of our church "the body of Christ". We had a sermon on this only yesterday and the point was made that just because you have a gift, doesn't mean you have to use it. For example if you had a church who had 12 guitarists, it doesn't mean that all 12 have to play or be involved in that ministry, maybe they have other gifts that are needed elsewhere. There have been times when we have stepped back from the music ministry in the past and others have stepped in to fill the gaps.

Good point

 

[Imagican]

Just because we are Christians I don't think it means we should give up on our democratic right to vote. Does that mean that no Christians should enter politics? Don't we need Christians in as many fields of work as we can to help spread the Word?

Here is a thought. My guess is that pretty much everyone who has posted to this topic over the past week is from the USA. I'm not, I'm from Australia. We are the only country formed by the popular vote and here voting is compulsory!! Yes, thats right at all 3 levels of government: local, state and Commonwealth, come election time you must attend a polling booth. We have a low informal vote so we take our demcratic rights very seriously, Christian or not.

So my question is, given the right to vote, why wouldn't you when so many in this world cannot? Maybe by voting you protect the very system that protects your right to worship as you wish.

Well now, here we go. TRUTH. But only a SPECK.

Mark, what ARE YOU? Are you a 'Christian' or are you a 'DEMOCRAT'?

NO, GOD protects the RIGHT to worship Him. NOTHING can STOP that except YOURSELF.

And you have offered EXACTLY the PROOF that i have been LOOKING FOR. I had NO IDEA that voting was compulsory in Australia. That means that YOUR country insists that YOU be RESPONSIBLE for it's STATE or CONDITION. Hmmmmmm.........What a NEAT way to be a PART of THIS WORLD, FORCE one's citizens to vote so you can say, ''well, it's what the PEOPLE wanted''. Not necessarily YOU, but MOST.

If Christianity worked that way, then we would all be LOST.

Blessings,

MEC