Should Churches be non-denominational?

[Cornelius]

I see the RCC went another way. VERY spectacular and great to watch ! So colorful . All the dresses and glitter and smoke. Very festive and godly looking. They made it even more simple: Just put one great guy at the very top and make him responsible for their souls. You must admit it really takes care of that difficult personal responsibility thing (way overrated !!) Now they can just relax, because God will only be asking the top guy questions, because the rest only "followed orders" ( you hear that a lot after a war ) But the RCC also kicked out God's old fashioned system for a bigger, brighter and lets admit is a LOT MORE FUN system. Like a Disney Land for the religious ! The rides are just way more impressive. You guys should try and make it to St Peter's in Rome to see the whole show. Its great.It starts at the kissing of the doors, then the kissing of Peter's toe (that poor thing only has a small piece of toe left, the faithful , faithfully kissed his toe away LOL ) There is also a lot of smoke effects and the choir is lovely.

Now why could God not have thought about that from the beginning ?

Having fun? I thought you were different from many on these forums and wanted to discuss actual doctrine instead of a caricature of beliefs. I guess I was wrong. I guess ripping stereotypes is too tempting. Here is Free's signature, in case you missed it. It applies here.

"If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it."--Ravi Zacharias

Or even tried.

I must admit, I had a lot of fun writing this. Nothing like reality to provide good material.

Its all true, I have made nothing up.

 

[francisdesales]

The creed ostensibly is a short book report of the Bible. As if the rest were not as important. The Spirit could not have been involved in a process which effectively replaces the Spirit. The creeds were formulated against the fear of heresy. Creeds make an ivory tower where all seems well.

Where did you get the idea that the Bible is not important to us??? And why the need for the false dichotomy? The Creed does not replace the Spirit, no more than the Bible ITSELF replaces the Spirit. Do you honestly think that studying a Bible is the ONLY thing that pulls us out of the "ivory tower"? Creed is a statement of our faith, much as the Bible is... At the Mass, the greatest worship of God is given within the context of Sacred Scriptures AND the Creed, since BOTH are proclaimed, before the high point, the self-giving love of Jesus Christ to the Father.

The POINT of Christianity is to have a relationship with Jesus Christ, NOT with the Bible, not with a Creed. Tossing the Creed aside is not that different from tossing aside Sacred Scriptures.

The mafia DO believe the creeds whether you see that or not. They are catholic to the core...obeying all the church traditions. They are not, however, following Christ.

The Mafia are not Catholic. Some men who are in the mafia claim to be Catholic. But as you well know, they are not bad Catholics because the existence of a creed. That is a ludicrous statement, and I had thought you wouldn't make such connections that are logically nonsense.

Next, do you intend on chastizing other poor Christians because they sing "Alleluia" to God but cheat on their wife??? Or those who read from Exodus and then go out and steal money from their parish? Please. Don't judge an organization on its poorest members who do anything BUT follow the walk taught by the Church...

I was raised catholic...and was even an altar boy. The intimacy I have experienced in Christ is light years above any mass I've attended.

That is because you were not taught the wonder and awe of what you experienced. I do not deny that the Catholic Church has not always done a good job at educating the masses (forgive the pun). I am frustrated by it myself. Perhaps it would be better to see a smaller, leaner and more evangelical Catholic Church. But the Spirit leads us and we are what we are. You can't compare experiences as a child to what you experience as an educated adult aware of the mystery taking place behind the sacramental action.

Masses are centered upon religious feelings....sights sounds and smells. (Can you say incense?) This type of "experience" is common among pagan practice. How can this compare with walking in the light.... all the time?

Nothing like self-righteousness to show how much more in touch with God you are than I. The devout Catholic does not only experience God at the Mass. It is our source of grace and blessings, it enables us to walk the walk during the week as we are fed on the spiritual food and drink of our Savior. The Mass is the perfect sacrifice given to God and we participate in it. But we continue to walk in the Lord and continue to meet Jesus during the everyday moments in our lives.

It is the religionists who catagorize themselves. Does hanging a sign that says "church" out front of a building make it a church? The church is people not a steeple. People are hiding behind a creed a building or whatever other facade they feel comfortable with.

The steeple is a building, the church is the community. But these people share common beliefs. No one is hiding behind a creed. It is merely an expression of the community's faith. But perhaps you prefer to keep your own beliefs hidden so you can fit in the world so well???

Following Christ is of a whole other order.

Which you know little of, because you forget that Christ is Way, the TRUTH and the Life. God desires we come to know the Truth. The enemy is called the father of LIES, not the father of bad actions of the father of sin... The devil is a liar and will do anything to convince naive Christians that there are many truths and all we have to do to be saved is to be "really nice to people"...

Continue with your little pet peeve of denying truth for the sake of some false ecumenism. Know, however, that Christ came to preach TRUTH vs. the Enemy of Lies. There is not multiple truths, so your relativistic position is merely a reconciliation with the world and the father of lies. The Creed is a recogition that there is ONE Truth, and its source is God's Spirit. Remember Christ's final words in the Gospel of Matthew. "Teach everything that I taught...". Not "distance yourself from all religions because creeds are bad".

Regards

 

[Adullam]

The creed ostensibly is a short book report of the Bible. As if the rest were not as important. The Spirit could not have been involved in a process which effectively replaces the Spirit. The creeds were formulated against the fear of heresy. Creeds make an ivory tower where all seems well.

Where did you get the idea that the Bible is not important to us??? And why the need for the false dichotomy? The Creed does not replace the Spirit, no more than the Bible ITSELF replaces the Spirit. Do you honestly think that studying a Bible is the ONLY thing that pulls us out of the "ivory tower"? Creed is a statement of our faith, much as the Bible is... At the Mass, the greatest worship of God is given within the context of Sacred Scriptures AND the Creed, since BOTH are proclaimed, before the high point, the self-giving love of Jesus Christ to the Father.

The POINT of Christianity is to have a relationship with Jesus Christ, NOT with the Bible, not with a Creed. Tossing the Creed aside is not that different from tossing aside Sacred Scriptures.

The mafia DO believe the creeds whether you see that or not. They are catholic to the core...obeying all the church traditions. They are not, however, following Christ.

The Mafia are not Catholic. Some men who are in the mafia claim to be Catholic. But as you well know, they are not bad Catholics because the existence of a creed. That is a ludicrous statement, and I had thought you wouldn't make such connections that are logically nonsense.

Next, do you intend on chastizing other poor Christians because they sing "Alleluia" to God but cheat on their wife??? Or those who read from Exodus and then go out and steal money from their parish? Please. Don't judge an organization on its poorest members who do anything BUT follow the walk taught by the Church...

I was raised catholic...and was even an altar boy. The intimacy I have experienced in Christ is light years above any mass I've attended.

That is because you were not taught the wonder and awe of what you experienced. I do not deny that the Catholic Church has not always done a good job at educating the masses (forgive the pun). I am frustrated by it myself. Perhaps it would be better to see a smaller, leaner and more evangelical Catholic Church. But the Spirit leads us and we are what we are. You can't compare experiences as a child to what you experience as an educated adult aware of the mystery taking place behind the sacramental action.

Masses are centered upon religious feelings....sights sounds and smells. (Can you say incense?) This type of "experience" is common among pagan practice. How can this compare with walking in the light.... all the time?

Nothing like self-righteousness to show how much more in touch with God you are than I. The devout Catholic does not only experience God at the Mass. It is our source of grace and blessings, it enables us to walk the walk during the week as we are fed on the spiritual food and drink of our Savior. The Mass is the perfect sacrifice given to God and we participate in it. But we continue to walk in the Lord and continue to meet Jesus during the everyday moments in our lives.

It is the religionists who catagorize themselves. Does hanging a sign that says "church" out front of a building make it a church? The church is people not a steeple. People are hiding behind a creed a building or whatever other facade they feel comfortable with.

The steeple is a building, the church is the community. But these people share common beliefs. No one is hiding behind a creed. It is merely an expression of the community's faith. But perhaps you prefer to keep your own beliefs hidden so you can fit in the world so well???

Following Christ is of a whole other order.

Which you know little of, because you forget that Christ is Way, the TRUTH and the Life. God desires we come to know the Truth. The enemy is called the father of LIES, not the father of bad actions of the father of sin... The devil is a liar and will do anything to convince naive Christians that there are many truths and all we have to do to be saved is to be "really nice to people"...

Continue with your little pet peeve of denying truth for the sake of some false ecumenism. Know, however, that Christ came to preach TRUTH vs. the Enemy of Lies. There is not multiple truths, so your relativistic position is merely a reconciliation with the world and the father of lies. The Creed is a recogition that there is ONE Truth, and its source is God's Spirit. Remember Christ's final words in the Gospel of Matthew. "Teach everything that I taught...". Not "distance yourself from all religions because creeds are bad".

Regards

Jesus taught creeds? Jesus is about the moment....the now. Can someone teach walking on water as a creed? Jesus Christ is about intimacy...following a person...not a rule. What the Spirit asks us to do today may differ from what He asks tomorrow. We follow Christ whither He goes. Jesus didn't walk in circles....He took people places.

Your post is exactly backwards...like a negative of a picture.

7They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.' 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

 

[francisdesales]

God's army is not like man's armies....the field manuals never change. The Strategy is already decided on high. Only the tactics change. These are revealed to us...at the moment. The Holy Spirit gives us the words and directives at the proper time. So the battle is the Lord's. He fights for us.

And how is that strategy revealed to man? THROUGH men. God has chosen to reveal Himself through prophets and continues to send prophets in this day and age to call mankind away from sin and back to God. God doesn't make direct contact with each and every believer. Contact with God is mediated, either through Jesus Christ, or through Jesus through another person.

Christ doesn't "fight for us"... That is one of the greatest mistakes of Protesantism. Christ did not come become our substitute, He came as ONE of us, our representative. Substitution, ironically, means that you are placed aside, not needed in the big picture. Representation implies participation. That is what a relationship is based upon - there cannot be a true relationship in "substitution". Thus, the idea that Christ "fights for us" unwittingly denies the true relationship that exists between God and mankind. Naturally, those with a superficial understanding of our faith make these mistakes.

And finally, don't confuse your thoughts with the Holy Spirit. That is the danger of such subjective theology that confuses the work of the Spirit in the believer while denying the work of the Spirit in the Church as an entity. Time and time again, the Scriptures speak of the Spirit inhabiting the Church as a Body, as a unified whole, an entity that has one faith, one baptism, and one Lord.

Men try to use their own means to win the battles...like converting pagan rituals into Christian ones in order to gain easy converts....let's see...who did that?

And a wonderful idea it was, thanks! So now pagans are converted to Christianity and no one thinks of a Christmas tree as part of a pagan ritual! I imagine that God is quite pleased with this inculturation. So while you remain in the rear twisting your hands about others think about you, we are on the front lines converting people to Christ.

If you don't understand spiritual things, I, a mere man, cannot explain them to you. You must be enlightened from on high.

More self-righteousnes - claiming that your viewpoint is given to your directly from God, and you have the gall to make this statement??? All you have been doing is telling me how messed up Christianity is because it has creeds - and telling me that we should become more like YOU??? :biglaugh

Please, give me a break. Unfortunately, your preaching has revealed itself for what it truly is, worship of the self by equating YOUR thoughts and views with God... What is sad is that you will not see it, just as the Pharisees didn't see it.

Spiritual things are foolishness to carnal man. You don't seem to understand the present function of the Holy Spirit and you ignore the bible on this issue. What can be done?

I understand the function of the Holy Spirit, and it is not to guide people out of His Church, the pillar and foundation of the Truth. What biblical verses have you shown so far that prove otherwise???

You are duped by the enemy, the liar, whose tactic nowadays is to make people think that the Spirit speaks to them directly whenever some little self-righteous thought enters their mind. Their superficial knowledge suddenly becomes the wisest of thoughts. And thus, with hypocritical angst, they must attack any organizational religion, simply because they express their faith through a formula??? And THIS is the basis by which men sin??? :biglol

Such anti-intellectualism is typical of these "church of me, myself and I" people, which, as you MAY note, if you read the bible, is NOWHERE mentioned...

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Jesus taught creeds?

Yes, He taught truth, did He not??? He taught about His relationship with the Father in heaven. He taught many things that He demanded His disciples believe.

Jesus is about the moment....the now.

I believe in God, the Father the Almighty. NOW!!!

Your point is lost on me here...

Can someone teach walking on water as a creed?

Peter was expected to believe, and when he doubted, he sank...

WHAT was Peter expected to believe? That every waking thought of his came from God Almighty??? NO! That Jesus was the Christ and that He had the power to sustain Him.

Jesus Christ is about intimacy...following a person...not a rule.

You aren't intimate with Christ if you do not care to know about Him...

What the Spirit asks us to do today may differ from what He asks tomorrow. We follow Christ whither He goes. Jesus didn't walk in circles....He took people places.

???

What's with the cliches?

Jesus took people places? What does that have anything to do with this discussion???

 

[francisdesales]

I must admit, I had a lot of fun writing this. Nothing like reality to provide good material.

Its all true, I have made nothing up.

Yea, like your little "nicolatain episode". Another invention to justify yourself...

 

[Cornelius]

I must admit, I had a lot of fun writing this. Nothing like reality to provide good material.

Its all true, I have made nothing up.

Yea, like your little "nicolatain episode". Another invention to justify yourself...

Now the interesting thing is , that its only the Catholics that are hopping up and down, because I touched their denomination, whereas my post was directed at all denominations who could identify with what I wrote. I am bashing religion here and the RCC is only part of it.

Everything I wrote about religion is true.

 

[Vince]

Could you give a specific instance in which Jesus taught a creed?

 

[Adullam]

Ye shall not fear them: for the LORD your God he shall fight for you.
Deuteronomy 3:22

...Our God shall fight for us.
Nehemiah 4:20

The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me? The LORD taketh my part with them that help me: therefore shall I see my desire upon them that hate me.
Psalm 118:6, 7


..Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
Zechariah 4:6

With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles.
II Chronicles 32:8

And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the LORD's, and he will give you into our hands.
I Samuel 17:47


For the LORD hath driven out from before you great nations and strong: but as for you, no man hath been able to stand before you unto this day. One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you.
Joshua 23:9, 10

 

[Adullam]

God's army is not like man's armies....the field manuals never change. The Strategy is already decided on high. Only the tactics change. These are revealed to us...at the moment. The Holy Spirit gives us the words and directives at the proper time. So the battle is the Lord's. He fights for us.

And how is that strategy revealed to man? THROUGH men. God has chosen to reveal Himself through prophets and continues to send prophets in this day and age to call mankind away from sin and back to God. God doesn't make direct contact with each and every believer. Contact with God is mediated, either through Jesus Christ, or through Jesus through another person.

Christ doesn't "fight for us"... That is one of the greatest mistakes of Protesantism. Christ did not come become our substitute, He came as ONE of us, our representative. Substitution, ironically, means that you are placed aside, not needed in the big picture. Representation implies participation. That is what a relationship is based upon - there cannot be a true relationship in "substitution". Thus, the idea that Christ "fights for us" unwittingly denies the true relationship that exists between God and mankind. Naturally, those with a superficial understanding of our faith make these mistakes.

And finally, don't confuse your thoughts with the Holy Spirit. That is the danger of such subjective theology that confuses the work of the Spirit in the believer while denying the work of the Spirit in the Church as an entity. Time and time again, the Scriptures speak of the Spirit inhabiting the Church as a Body, as a unified whole, an entity that has one faith, one baptism, and one Lord.

Men try to use their own means to win the battles...like converting pagan rituals into Christian ones in order to gain easy converts....let's see...who did that?

And a wonderful idea it was, thanks! So now pagans are converted to Christianity and no one thinks of a Christmas tree as part of a pagan ritual! I imagine that God is quite pleased with this inculturation. So while you remain in the rear twisting your hands about others think about you, we are on the front lines converting people to Christ.

If you don't understand spiritual things, I, a mere man, cannot explain them to you. You must be enlightened from on high.

More self-righteousnes - claiming that your viewpoint is given to your directly from God, and you have the gall to make this statement??? All you have been doing is telling me how messed up Christianity is because it has creeds - and telling me that we should become more like YOU??? :biglaugh

Please, give me a break. Unfortunately, your preaching has revealed itself for what it truly is, worship of the self by equating YOUR thoughts and views with God... What is sad is that you will not see it, just as the Pharisees didn't see it.

Spiritual things are foolishness to carnal man. You don't seem to understand the present function of the Holy Spirit and you ignore the bible on this issue. What can be done?

I understand the function of the Holy Spirit, and it is not to guide people out of His Church, the pillar and foundation of the Truth. What biblical verses have you shown so far that prove otherwise???

You are duped by the enemy, the liar, whose tactic nowadays is to make people think that the Spirit speaks to them directly whenever some little self-righteous thought enters their mind. Their superficial knowledge suddenly becomes the wisest of thoughts. And thus, with hypocritical angst, they must attack any organizational religion, simply because they express their faith through a formula??? And THIS is the basis by which men sin??? :biglol

Such anti-intellectualism is typical of these "church of me, myself and I" people, which, as you MAY note, if you read the bible, is NOWHERE mentioned...

Regards

I cannot speak about truth with someone who is obviously religious to the core. This is supposed to be a Christian discussion group. You are preaching against every principle of Christ and are teaching vain and religious babblings that you are passing for teachings. :bigfrown

You have never met the Lord or been led by the Spirit but rather ridicule those who cast their pearls before you. I will not be so unwise again with you. Rather, you had not so heard the truth so that your condemnation should be lighter.

 

[dadof10]

I see the RCC went another way. VERY spectacular and great to watch ! So colorful . All the dresses and glitter and smoke. Very festive and godly looking. They made it even more simple: Just put one great guy at the very top and make him responsible for their souls. You must admit it really takes care of that difficult personal responsibility thing (way overrated !!) Now they can just relax, because God will only be asking the top guy questions, because the rest only "followed orders" ( you hear that a lot after a war ) But the RCC also kicked out God's old fashioned system for a bigger, brighter and lets admit is a LOT MORE FUN system. Like a Disney Land for the religious ! The rides are just way more impressive. You guys should try and make it to St Peter's in Rome to see the whole show. Its great.It starts at the kissing of the doors, then the kissing of Peter's toe (that poor thing only has a small piece of toe left, the faithful , faithfully kissed his toe away LOL ) There is also a lot of smoke effects and the choir is lovely.

Now why could God not have thought about that from the beginning ?

Having fun? I thought you were different from many on these forums and wanted to discuss actual doctrine instead of a caricature of beliefs. I guess I was wrong. I guess ripping stereotypes is too tempting. Here is Free's signature, in case you missed it. It applies here.

"If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it."--Ravi Zacharias

Or even tried.

I must admit, I had a lot of fun writing this. Nothing like reality to provide good material.

Its all true, I have made nothing up.

Last time I checked, lying was a sin, unless, of course you got a personal revelation from God telling you that lying was OK in your case. You need to repent, unless you can point to Catholic sources that back up these outright lies about the Church:

Falsehood 1) Where is glitter used in the Catholic Church?

Falsehood 2) Where is this taught: "Just put one great guy at the very top and make him responsible for their souls.

Falsehood 3) Where is it taught that we are not responsible for our own souls?

Falsehood 4) Where is this taught: "Now they can just relax, because God will only be asking the top guy questions, because the rest only "followed orders"

You seem quite bitter. The way to get over bitterness is not with lies, but through repentance. You should try it, or simply cite Catholic sources for the foolishness above.

 

[Tina]

Last time I checked, lying was a sin, unless, of course you got a personal revelation from God telling you that lying was OK in your case. You need to repent, unless you can point to Catholic sources that back up these outright lies about the Church:

Falsehood 1) Where is glitter used in the Catholic Church?

Falsehood 2) Where is this taught: "Just put one great guy at the very top and make him responsible for their souls.

Falsehood 3) Where is it taught that we are not responsible for our own souls?

Falsehood 4) Where is this taught: "Now they can just relax, because God will only be asking the top guy questions, because the rest only "followed orders"

You seem quite bitter. The way to get over bitterness is not with lies, but through repentance. You should try it, or simply cite Catholic sources for the foolishness above.

As a third party in these conversations, I can't help but notice personal attacks and accusations here, calling Cornelius a lying and bitter person.


.... :naughty .....

 

[Cornelius]

Thank you Tina I must point our that in my posts, I try and give equal attention to all sides of religion.

I have an iconoclastic approach and that is never popular. The RCC had its first taste of it, when people started rising up against the veneration of images. They declared them heretics. In past times they would have burnt me at the stake.

But since we now do not only have the RCC to deal with, we now have the sects of Christianity all over the globe as well, we cannot just focus on one side. No, we have to include all who raise up idols today in whatever form they are. We have taken idolatry to new and unknown levels in these days.

We start with our OWN lives. Allowing God to search us and open to us where we have idols:Psa 139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: Try me, and know my thoughts;
Psa 139:24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, And lead me in the way everlasting.

Gideon was an iconoclast too

Jdg 6:24 Then Gideon built an altar there unto Jehovah, and called it Jehovah-shalom: unto this day it is yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.
Jdg 6:25 And it came to pass the same night, that Jehovah said unto him, Take thy father's bullock, even the second bullock seven years old, and throw down the altar of Baal that thy father hath, and cut down the Asherah that is by it;
Jdg 6:26 and build an altar unto Jehovah thy God upon the top of this stronghold, in the orderly manner, and take the second bullock, and offer a burnt-offering with the wood of the Asherah which thou shalt cut down.
Jdg 6:27 Then Gideon took ten men of his servants, and did as Jehovah had spoken unto him:

 

[Cornelius]

..........but people really , really hate it when you touch their idols:

Jdg 6:28 And when the men of the city arose early in the morning, behold, the altar of Baal was broken down, and the Asherah was cut down that was by it, and the second bullock was offered upon the altar that was built.
Jdg 6:29 And they said one to another, Who hath done this thing? And when they inquired and asked, they said, Gideon the son of Joash hath done this thing.
Jdg 6:30 Then the men of the city said unto Joash, Bring out thy son, that he may die, because he hath broken down the altar of Baal, and because he hath cut down the Asherah that was by it.

Nothing has changed , only the names of people.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

Some random thoughts...

- Yes, the body of Christ should be non demoninational.
- I feel that Catholicism is a demonination as are Baptists, Protestants, etc. I think the definition below explains it well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_denomination

- I think it is possible to not be in a demonination and worship outside of bylaws set up outside of what is in scripture. For example, the Catholic practice of not marrying individuals into the church that do not convert to Catholicism is an abitrary custom / requirement that is not biblical in my mind and is set up to draw the line between believers.

That's all I have for now. Later!

 

[francisdesales]

I cannot speak about truth with someone who is obviously religious to the core.

I am not sure if that is meant as a compliment or not. However, being religious is not a bad thing, if you know what the word actually means...

As to truth, what makes you think you have an unlimited monopoly on it??? Because you said so??? So far, your arguments have convinced me that you have a superficial understanding of what Christianity is, at its core.

This is supposed to be a Christian discussion group. You are preaching against every principle of Christ and are teaching vain and religious babblings that you are passing for teachings. :bigfrown

Which principle of Christ have you shown that I have preached against? Where does Jesus say we are not to belong to organizations, or other such crackpot ideas you have come up with so far??? I defend the concept of Church, whether in the form of Protestant or Catholic. It is though these institutions that we learn humility and obedience, THE prime traits that the Christ wanted us to learn and emulate. You don't learn those by worshiping yourself, disguised as following Christ.

You have never met the Lord or been led by the Spirit but rather ridicule those who cast their pearls before you. I will not be so unwise again with you. Rather, you had not so heard the truth so that your condemnation should be lighter.

The truth is that you are condemning me in the same way that you accuse various Christian communities of doing. We call this "hypocritical". One can only image the punishment you would dole out on me if I was at your mercy...

It is quite ironic how humanistic relativists like yourself quickly show their true colors when challenged...

I am hoping that this exercise will be a cause for some enlightenment - that you are not above any other person here BECAUSE you are outside of an ecclesiastical community. It is the human condition that leads to sin, not adherence to a formal creed. My point is made, thanks for playing.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

I must admit, I had a lot of fun writing this. Nothing like reality to provide good material.

Its all true, I have made nothing up.

Yea, like your little "nicolatain episode". Another invention to justify yourself...

Now the interesting thing is , that its only the Catholics that are hopping up and down, because I touched their denomination, whereas my post was directed at all denominations who could identify with what I wrote. I am bashing religion here and the RCC is only part of it.

Everything I wrote about religion is true.

Religions are not the cause of such things, the men within them are. Creeds don't sin or cause men to sin. They are the community's expression of their belief in God. It is men who forget the meaning of the Creed and do not live by them when men run into troubles.

I would suggest you look up the definition of "religion", since you don't appear to know the meaning. You yourself, by definition, are bashing yourself...

And no, everything you have written is NOT true, which is WHY I came into this thread to begin with. Your inability to answer my response regarding Nicolatians is just one instance.

 

[francisdesales]

I have an iconoclastic approach and that is never popular. The RCC had its first taste of it, when people started rising up against the veneration of images. They declared them heretics. In past times they would have burnt me at the stake.

It is not popular because no one likes to hear a hypocritical and self-righteous approach to God where one replaces one's personal opinions with God. Basically, one must worship at the altar of Cornelius, otherwise, he is marked as part of the unwashed and unholy masses.

It just is an unbiblical religion, the worship of self, and the vanity of it is not lost upon us... And citing Scriptures and inserting your name amongst the holy names is on the verge of blasphemy. You aren't no Gideon, by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[francisdesales]

- I think it is possible to not be in a demonination and worship outside of bylaws set up outside of what is in scripture. For example, the Catholic practice of not marrying individuals into the church that do not convert to Catholicism is an abitrary custom / requirement that is not biblical in my mind and is set up to draw the line between believers.

That's all I have for now. Later!

People enter the Church via baptism, not by marriage...

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

As a third party in these conversations, I can't help but notice personal attacks and accusations here, calling Cornelius a lying and bitter person. [/color][/size]


.... :naughty .....

And it wouldn't be the first time he was called out, either, Tina.

There is no need to invent things, if one actually believes they are teaching truth. To those who must lie, well, I don't need to say more about who they follow.