Should I publicly correct my teacher?

[T. E. Smith]

My three Sunday school teachers all subscribe to the doctrine of eternal security and thus argue that if someone falls away, they were never saved. They often speak of this to my classmates, some of whom as young as 10. I consider the idea very wrong, and I don't want the kids to be indoctrinated into it. Should I speak up publicly and correct the teachers? I could speak to them in private, but I'm certain that their views would not change at all, and it would still leave the children believing this false doctrine.

 

[christian1724]

I can see your SS teacher's point of view and know people that it would apply to. I also see your view as valid.

Would Solomon be a fair example? I'm not sure.

How would you describe yourself? If discussion is accepted in your Sunday school, then I would voice my view.

 

[jasonc]

I attend a reformed church.i don't change church doctrine on non essentials . It's not worth it as the shoe can be worn by you and the reverse happen

 

[hawkman]

My three Sunday school teachers all subscribe to the doctrine of eternal security and thus argue that if someone falls away, they were never saved. They often speak of this to my classmates, some of whom as young as 10. I consider the idea very wrong, and I don't want the kids to be indoctrinated into it. Should I speak up publicly and correct the teachers? I could speak to them in private, but I'm certain that their views would not change at all, and it would still leave the children believing this false doctrine.

If you were in the position of a teacher and someone spoke up publicly to correct you what would be your reaction ?

 

[Who Me]

My three Sunday school teachers all subscribe to the doctrine of eternal security

Is this the ' official ' teaching of your church?

If it is you are heading for trouble. Check out your churches statement of Faith, what does it say about this?

May I suggest talking privately to which ever teacher you get on best with, to find out whether this is an ' official ' teaching and to politely suggest that this is not an appropriate teaching for children.
Arguing about doctrine will not get you anywhere.

 

[T. E. Smith]

If you were in the position of a teacher and someone spoke up publicly to correct you what would be your reaction ?

It is not morally relevant how I would react.
But I would present both perspectives in Sunday school but defend one.

 

[WIP]

If you were in the position of a teacher and someone spoke up publicly to correct you what would be your reaction ?

I think you've pointed out where the problem possibly lies. T. E. Smith used the phrase, "Correct the teacher." It suggests that he believes he is an authority above the teacher. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't but it would be disrespectful to assume he is. I think a more courteous approach would be to question the teacher and present the evidence for supporting his own assertions. Having been a Bible study leader, I would have loved to get feedback from my students. Too many times it seems problems arise when we look at ourselves more highly than we ought. Paul warned against this in Romans 12:3-4.

I remember in high school civics class how we were bored to death. Most students considered the teacher to have somewhat of a dry personality and student contribution in class was non-existent until my friend and I opened the floodgates. One day while in class my friend decided to state that he disagreed with the teacher. I took his cue and took a position to oppose both my friend and our teacher and so the 3-way debate ensued. We didn't do it to be mean or haughty but just to have some fun and lighten things up in class. I have never seen a teacher's face light up like ours did that day. Civics class was no longer boring for the rest of our senior year.

 

[D-D-W]

There is a command to NOT bring an accusation against congregational leadership (specifically elders) without 2-3 witnesses that they are doing wrong. While sunday school teachers are not listed, I think the process is valid.

Our Lord said this:

Matthew 18:15
“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.

So it is not to call someone out publicly. Go in private. And best if you have multiple people agreeing that the teaching is in error. But if you are in attendance of a Baptist church or from the Reform movement (Presbyterian, Christian Reform, Reform Church of America) you will find eternal security to be a major plank in their doctrinal platform.

 

[T. E. Smith]

I find the teaching toxic, highly unbiblical, and harmful to ex-Christians and Christians because 1) it tells ex-Christians that they were never saved even though they thought they were, and so reduces one's confidence that they can be saved, and 2) it tells Christians that there is no need to remain in the faith, in direct conflict with Hebrews.

Is this the ' official ' teaching of your church?

If it is you are heading for trouble. Check out your churches statement of Faith, what does it say about this?

May I suggest talking privately to which ever teacher you get on best with, to find out whether this is an ' official ' teaching and to politely suggest that this is not an appropriate teaching for children.
Arguing about doctrine will not get you anywhere.

Yes it is the official teaching.

I think you've pointed out where the problem possibly lies. T. E. Smith used the phrase, "Correct the teacher." It suggests that he believes he is an authority above the teacher. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't but it would be disrespectful to assume he is. I think a more courteous approach would be to question the teacher and present the evidence for supporting his own assertions. Having been a Bible study leader, I would have loved to get feedback from my students. Too many times it seems problems arise when we look at ourselves more highly than we ought. Paul warned against this in Romans 12:3-4.

I remember in high school civics class how we were bored to death. Most students considered the teacher to have somewhat of a dry personality and student contribution in class was non-existent until my friend and I opened the floodgates. One day while in class my friend decided to state that he disagreed with the teacher. I took his cue and took a position to oppose both my friend and our teacher and so the 3-way debate ensued. We didn't do it to be mean or haughty but just to have some fun and lighten things up in class. I have never seen a teacher's face light up like ours did that day. Civics class was no longer boring for the rest of our senior year.

Truth is not tied to individuals. The fact that eternal security is unbiblical is in no way related to me and therefore it does not matter who I am. I trust that John Wesley is an authority over a youth pastor, and Wesley disagreed with eternal security.

There is a command to NOT bring an accusation against congregational leadership (specifically elders) without 2-3 witnesses that they are doing wrong. While sunday school teachers are not listed, I think the process is valid.

Our Lord said this:

Matthew 18:15
“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.

So it is not to call someone out publicly. Go in private. And best if you have multiple people agreeing that the teaching is in error. But if you are in attendance of a Baptist church or from the Reform movement (Presbyterian, Christian Reform, Reform Church of America) you will find eternal security to be a major plank in their doctrinal platform.

There is no question that they are teaching eternal security, the question is if it is wrong or not. Yes I attend a "reformed Baptist" church.

 

[Who Me]

Yes it is the official teaching.

Then your choice is to disagree with the church about this untill they ask you to leave or to keep quite about it.

 

[Free]

I find the teaching toxic, highly unbiblical, and harmful to ex-Christians and Christians because 1) it tells ex-Christians that they were never saved even though they thought they were, and so reduces one's confidence that they can be saved, and 2) it tells Christians that there is no need to remain in the faith, in direct conflict with Hebrews.

Your second point suggests that you don't fully understand the teaching.

Yes it is the official teaching.

Truth is not tied to individuals. The fact that eternal security is unbiblical is in no way related to me and therefore it does not matter who I am. I trust that John Wesley is an authority over a youth pastor, and Wesley disagreed with eternal security.

There is no question that they are teaching eternal security, the question is if it is wrong or not. Yes I attend a "reformed Baptist" church.

As the official teaching, then, no, you shouldn't confront the Sunday school teachers at all. Nothing you say will convince them to change, as they think it is the correct biblical understanding. They will have just as much to argue for it as you will against it. You would be better off finding a non-Reformed church to attend. When the kids are older, then can decide for themselves if it is true or not.

 

[Northman]

Say what you have to say and move on if you have to. The stance that somehow "authority" is not to be questioned, especially in public, is entirely man-made. Jesus pulled no punches. Paul pulled no punches. All sorts and manners of "authority" were insulted as soon as they opened their mouths. God even commanded OT prophets to call out kings, and they did, and then it got written down so we get examples of it happening.

This phenom is mostly brought on by state funded schools, following the Prussian model to create an orderly and obedient society, defying God as ruler every step of the way.

 

[D-D-W]

There is no question that they are teaching eternal security, the question is if it is wrong or not. Yes I attend a "reformed Baptist" church.

Then I suggest you find a different congregation to attend. Most denominations that are derived from the Anglican, Wesleyan and Methodist branches of Christendom do not hold to eternal security. Some (Assembly of God, Nazarene) go so far as to remove ordination any pastor that tries to teach OSAS.

Having been raised in the Wesleyan tradition, I have never held to OSAS. However many believers I respect and support DO hold to that position. So I set off to decide for myself. It actually changed my belief of soteriology, not just this one point. And, as a Messianic, I see broad continuity between "old" and "new" Testaments. As an adult male Jew, "born under the Law," Our Lord could not teach differently than the Law of Moses and remain the sinless sacrifice for our transgressions and sins.

I now see salvation as a matter of making a covenant, similar to marriage. Of course we all know that the covenant of marriage is supposed to last a lifetime. But we all know marriages that have failed for any number of reasons. Likewise the Mosaic Covenant was to be adhered to for a lifetime. But we see written in several places that certain sins would "cut off" a person from both the Covenant and the People of God.

i.e. lose salvation.

And if it is a covenant similar to marriage, what about the divorce stipulations in the Law? In Deut 24 Moses wrote (from God's revelation) that there were stipulations and procedures to go thru to obtain a divorce. It could not be done without willful consent.

So, my conclusion was that Salvation is SUPPOSED to be forever, but can be lost. But that is not easily done. It was NOT (as my church background taught) lost every time you sinned, even if you were unaware of the sin. (for instance - accidentally smelling alcohol was considered the sin of drunkenness) It takes a decision to willfully leave the faith in order to lose salvation.

There is a confusing passage in Hebrews 6 where it says it is impossible to return someone to faith if they fall away. Wesleyans and other Arminians cite this as proof scripture of losing salvation. Again, looking to the Mosaic writings, I find a similar text on marriage to shed light on it:

Deut 24:2
and she leaves his house and goes and becomes another man’s wife, 3 and if the latter husband turns against her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies who took her to be his wife, 4 then her former husband who sent her away is not allowed to take her again to be his wife, since she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the Lord, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance.

So similar to there being no way back if she marries someone else, if someone leaves the faith and "is joined to an idol," i.e. worships other gods, there is no way back. And since the Hebrews book was written to Jewish believers thinking of leaving the Messianic faith, the parallel is obvious.

 

[D-D-W]

The stance that somehow "authority" is not to be questioned, especially in public, is entirely man-made. Jesus pulled no punches.

But HE did teach this:

Matt 18:15
“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.

 

[Northman]

But HE did teach this:

Matt 18:15
“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.

One thing has nothing to do with another. We are talking about false teachers/teachings. When it's your turn at the resurrection you can go ahead and demand answers from Jesus, Paul, Nathan, Samuel, and a host of others on why they weren't following scripture how you wanted them to.

 

[jasonc]

As one who has been here ,free and a few others can attest.i have debated about every doctrine .

The more I thought I know .the less .no one church will ever have it 100 percent.

Unless my pastor and elders force it I won't leave over the arminist position I have .it's not Required to even be a member only to be an elder or ordained .
I don't undermine my elders on non essentials.

These are the 5 points of arminist and Calvinism.
Eschatology and also gasp complimentarian.

In life I have learned how opinionated I am .If I agree to allow you to teach then I need to shut up and listen.

Old school martial arts would have the sempei or sensei fighting you to show what you think you know and laid out.my idiot self learned a few times that way.bloody knose.chocked out and joints torqued .

 

[jasonc]

I was often teaching soldiers as that was my job as it is with all ncos .I thought I was able .I learned I wasn't .I learned that to teach any subject you learn more about it by teaching it .

Those that are put in a God fearing church by elders are called to do that as God gifted them .of course some shouldn't be there .but those that can are.

My pastor is a former science and biology teacher ,called into ministry and he is able to teach . Should I challenge him openly on Romans 9 on a Sunday service or in private .I have discussed my views and never hid any thing about it and said I wouldn't teach it .if asked I would state it .

I find things in common I can learn over the differences

 

[Dorothy Mae]

My three Sunday school teachers all subscribe to the doctrine of eternal security and thus argue that if someone falls away, they were never saved. They often speak of this to my classmates, some of whom as young as 10. I consider the idea very wrong, and I don't want the kids to be indoctrinated into it. Should I speak up publicly and correct the teachers? I could speak to them in private, but I'm certain that their views would not change at all, and it would still leave the children believing this false doctrine.

I thought you’d fallen away from the faith in any case.

 

[T. E. Smith]

I thought you’d fallen away from the faith in any case.

I still care about what the Bible says, and I care about it being taught accurately

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I still care about what the Bible says, and I care about it being taught accurately

Good point.