Should I publicly correct my teacher?

[T. E. Smith]

Good point.

Also my teachers don't know my religious beliefs -- imagine what parents would say if they knew an open atheist was in the classroom :neutral -- and as you've seen, I can argue like a Christian, since I understand at least some biblical theology. (I don't think this is dishonest.) So my falling away does not need to impact the discussion.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Also my teachers don't know my religious beliefs -- imagine what parents would say if they knew an open atheist was in the classroom :neutral -- and as you've seen, I can argue like a Christian, since I understand at least some biblical theology. (I don't think this is dishonest.) So my falling away does not need to impact the discussion.

You are very unusual. My experience with the Calvinist crowd is discussion goes no where and is very unpleasant.

 

[jasonc]

Depends on the ones and how you approach them .

Since I have their arguments on hand I can approach them from that angle .I know a man ordained as a Methodist minister and left that and became reformed and he and poke at each other all the time when he came to my church.

He knew by my statement where I was and poked at me and thought he ran me off.i said no.unless the arp pushes me to leave ,I won't .they won't .

We rent to a Spanish speaking only church and is pentacostal at that and that one has a female pastor .we are joined at the hip with them

 

[T. E. Smith]

You are very unusual. My experience with the Calvinist crowd is discussion goes no where and is very unpleasant.

Yeah, well, yes that is mine too. My dad and stepmom are both Calvinists as have been all my teachers at church. It is often like talking to clouds. But I try.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yeah, well, yes that is mine too. My dad and stepmom are both Calvinists as have been all my teachers at church. It is often like talking to clouds. But I try.

Saying “clouds” is kind. I’ve thought a “brick wall” fits better.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Saying “clouds” is kind. I’ve thought a “brick wall” fits better.

Agreed

 

[Free]

I still care about what the Bible says, and I care about it being taught accurately

But you presume to know it accurately. Many, many intelligent and highly knowledgeable Christian scholars, theologians, and pastors have debated this issue for centuries, with everyone certain that their view is the biblical one. You really have only three options: discuss it privately with the teachers, don’t say anything, or find another church. They aren’t going to change their view based on anything you say, so discussing it is rather pointless.

 

[T. E. Smith]

But you presume to know it accurately. Many, many intelligent and highly knowledgeable Christian scholars, theologians, and pastors have debated this issue for centuries, with everyone certain that their view is the biblical one. You really have only three options: discuss it privately with the teachers, don’t say anything, or find another church. They aren’t going to change their view based on anything you say, so discussing it is rather pointless.

Yeah, I read the works of Jacob Arminius, John Wesley, and John Calvin (those intelligent and knowledgeable Christian theologians), and have come to conclusions based on their work. But yes your three options seem like the only ones.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Free and T. E. Smith, I agree with both of you. I just want to comment that all three positions described are mutually exclusive, that is, they cannot all be true. Finding the truth is not a matter of education or intelligence or well-meaning. The truth can be known, but it’s not by reading, thinking or debating.

 

[Edward]

Also my teachers don't know my religious beliefs -- imagine what parents would say if they knew an open atheist was in the classroom :neutral -- and as you've seen, I can argue like a Christian, since I understand at least some biblical theology. (I don't think this is dishonest.) So my falling away does not need to impact the discussion.

I think it's very relevant. You have no leg to stand on. What are you doing? Faking it? You can not say, I am an atheist and do not believe in God, but I am also the teacher of God, that's ridiculous. You would be very much out of line to correct the teacher.

I've always liked the manner in which Chuck Missler would preach and teach. Boy, he discussed some very fringe topics! God bless that man. But in many of his teachings, he would wind it up with...but don't believe me by any means. Go do your homework and see what the Bible says about it for yourself! That's a pretty safe stance right there. It allows for him to be human and make mistakes without being called a flse teacher or something, and encourages the congrgation to study for themselves.

What in the world possesses you to believe that you could teach Christianity with zero faith whatsoever? No leading of the Holy Spirit, no spiritual revelation, just a carnal view of Christianity? Can you hear how you sound? Can you see what you are saying? You sound very proud of your intelligence and that might be your problem right there.

You're on dangerous ground brother. Hey kids, I don't believe in God but let me help you to understand the God which I do not believe in?! Uhhh, wow. Just wow.
You might be intelligent, but you seem to be lacking in Wisdom.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I think it's very relevant. You have no leg to stand on. What are you doing? Faking it? You can not say, I am an atheist and do not believe in God, but I am also the teacher of God, that's ridiculous. You would be very much out of line to correct the teacher.

First you need to stop attacking TE. He doesn’t claim to teach about God. He knows the Bible, not God. He admits this.

I've always liked the manner in which Chuck Missler would preach and teach. Boy, he discussed some very fringe topics! God bless that man. But in many of his teachings, he would wind it up with...but don't believe me by any means. Go do your homework and see what the Bible says about it for yourself! That's a pretty safe stance right there. It allows for him to be human and make mistakes without being called a flse teacher or something, and encourages the congrgation to study for themselves.

Good for him

What in the world possesses you to believe that you could teach Christianity with zero faith whatsoever? No leading of the Holy Spirit, no spiritual revelation, just a carnal view of Christianity?

There are many many teachers who do not know God, they do not know the Bible, and they have zero leading of the Holy Spirit. Zero and often the other side is motivating them. Do you think the HS is leading every Christian??

Can you hear how you sound? Can you see what you are saying? You sound very proud of your intelligence and that might be your problem right there.

I don’t think he sounds like that at all. You are mistaken!

You're on dangerous ground brother. Hey kids, I don't believe in God but let me help you to understand the God which I do not believe in?! Uhhh, wow. Just wow.
You might be intelligent, but you seem to be lacking in Wisdom.

Atheists sometimes think more clearly than believers who stopped thinking once they found a theology they liked. Sometimes they think less than believers who DO think and actually that is more often the case.

I once read a review of a review Dr Steven Meyers book by a pastor, non-scientist. He said he judged a book (outside of his expertise) by what the critics say of the piece.

 

[T. E. Smith]

I think it's very relevant. You have no leg to stand on. What are you doing? Faking it? You can not say, I am an atheist and do not believe in God, but I am also the teacher of God, that's ridiculous. You would be very much out of line to correct the teacher.

I've always liked the manner in which Chuck Missler would preach and teach. Boy, he discussed some very fringe topics! God bless that man. But in many of his teachings, he would wind it up with...but don't believe me by any means. Go do your homework and see what the Bible says about it for yourself! That's a pretty safe stance right there. It allows for him to be human and make mistakes without being called a flse teacher or something, and encourages the congrgation to study for themselves.

What in the world possesses you to believe that you could teach Christianity with zero faith whatsoever? No leading of the Holy Spirit, no spiritual revelation, just a carnal view of Christianity? Can you hear how you sound? Can you see what you are saying? You sound very proud of your intelligence and that might be your problem right there.

You're on dangerous ground brother. Hey kids, I don't believe in God but let me help you to understand the God which I do not believe in?! Uhhh, wow. Just wow.
You might be intelligent, but you seem to be lacking in Wisdom.

What the Bible says is not tied to anyone's beliefs, and therefore someone can understand it regardless of their beliefs.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Edward, I sort of rebuked you but please know I think highly of other things you wrote. Christians ought to love truth no matter WHO speaks it. We are not supposed to be only cheering “our side” right or wrong.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

What the Bible says is not tied to anyone's beliefs, and therefore someone can understand it regardless of their beliefs.

My very dear TE, there are some elements anyone can understand, God with them or not. But there are many matters no one on the outside can understand.

We are only beginning to exchange mails and so far you’re hitting a lot of nails on the head. But while are sometimes the matters are a bit deeper than many Christians consider, they are otherwise fairly elementary. The more difficult matters we have not yet touched on.

If I may be so bold, you know a lot on matters regarding the Bible but you don’t know as much as I and some others here do. You know the writings, I know the author. Makes all the difference not the least of which is that I have access to a different resource than you do.

 

[T. E. Smith]

My very dear TE, there are some elements anyone can understand, God with them or not. But there are many matters no one on the outside can understand.

We are only beginning to exchange mails and so far you’re hitting a lot of nails on the head. But while are sometimes the matters are a bit deeper than many Christians consider, they are otherwise fairly elementary. The more difficult matters we have not yet touched on.

If I may be so bold, you know a lot on matters regarding the Bible but you don’t know as much as I and some others here do. You know the writings, I know the author. Makes all the difference not the least of which is that I have access to a different resource than you do.

Which more difficult matters are those, please?

Also the authors of the biblical books are disputed but for the gospels we know nothing about them, they are anonymous. For Paul we know virtually nothing beyond the book of Acts and his own writings.

 

[WIP]

What the Bible says is not tied to anyone's beliefs, and therefore someone can understand it regardless of their beliefs.

I propose that if one truly understands the Bible and the gospel of Jesus contained within, it would be illogical and impossible to not believe.

 

[T. E. Smith]

I propose that if one truly understands the Bible and the gospel of Jesus contained within, it would be illogical and impossible to not believe.

I propose that you are wrong.

 

[Edward]

What the Bible says is not tied to anyone's beliefs, and therefore someone can understand it regardless of their beliefs.

I do not believe this is true. It's like, when He wrote the Bible, at the last minute before print, He shuffled up all the pages so that the unbelieving can not understand it. and even the believing need instruction from the Holy Spirit. The Bible is God's primary way of speaking to us. The word of God is all we really have. But we can't forget that many many times in scripture differing definitions of the word is used. Logos is the written word, and Rhema's are words given as revelation to us only by the Holy Spirit. Have you ever received a Rhema from God while reading the scriptures?

 

[T. E. Smith]

I do not believe this is true. It's like, when He wrote the Bible, at the last minute before print, He shuffled up all the pages so that the unbelieving can not understand it. and even the believing need instruction from the Holy Spirit. The Bible is God's primary way of speaking to us. The word of God is all we really have. But we can't forget that many many times in scripture differing definitions of the word is used. Logos is the written word, and Rhema's are words given as revelation to us only by the Holy Spirit. Have you ever received a Rhema from God while reading the scriptures?

I thought "God is not the author of confusion"??

Elsewhere I wrote about how I never felt anything from God, despite believing intensely in him and praying to him regularly (though again, feeling nothing during prayer). I believed God spoke to us via his word, and I still believe that that is what the Bible teaches.

 

[Edward]

Edward, I sort of rebuked you but please know I think highly of other things you wrote. Christians ought to love truth no matter WHO speaks it. We are not supposed to be only cheering “our side” right or wrong.

Quite alrright, Sister. That's what we're here for, and...points well taken. However,

First you need to stop attacking TE. He doesn’t claim to teach about God. He knows the Bible, not God. He admits this.

I didn't mean to come across harshly. But surely you jest, Sister? Ok, perhaps he didn't claim to teach about God. But doesnt it sound like he's applying for the position without saying it exactly like that? He wants to correct the teacher. He wants to teach the teacher. He did say these things.

So yes that presents a problem here. I'm not saying that he is wrong about everything. But should a professing Atheist be allowed to teach Children or the Sunday School teacher about their own God? I think not.

It is commendable that the brother is apparently seeking the truth about God. But while he is a profeessing to have no faith in God atheist position, he has no business correcting the teacher.

The Suday School teacher is guarenteed to be wrong on some points. A false prophet is guarenteed to have a smidgin of truth within his words. The teacher is only human and sees through a glass darkly. And the best lies will be couched in the truth so it is a subtle long term deception which turns out wrong but started with a truth.

I have heard obvious false prophets make astounding statements which are bullseye truths about God. So should I follow him now? God forbid! So again, sir you have no position to correct the teacher in the SS class. If you'd like to listen in and prayerfully ask for guidance from the Holy Spirit, hey, welcome.

If the man does not know God, how is he qualified to teach anyone? The carnal mind is emnity with God.
First thing, well I'm an atheist and renounced God, so now can I correct you too? I sense a great wrongness in that Sister. Let on who does know God correct the teacher if necessary, and study the scriptures daily as the Bereans do...that means you. That means me. I think it is a good sign that the brother feels convicted enough to be able to spot small errors in teachings and is moved to the desire to correct. That's a sign that the Holy Spirit has not given up on him! But in a renounced state of faith, honestly...he has no leg to stand on. Sir, be polite and don't interupt the teacher. Hold your place quietly.