should we have billionaires?

[jasonc]

The only way Christ centered communism is to work ,is for the return .

A large christian commune has been tried .the first English colony was one.it failed in one year .
Communes ,vet members and are often are from,wealthy families ,my state has a large amount of communes.to join,you,must have a skill they need,and be voted in.

Sounds most unlike what is suggested.

 

[daninthelionsden]

The only way Christ centered communism is to work ,is for the return .

A large christian commune has been tried .the first English colony was one.it failed in one year .
Communes ,vet members and are often are from,wealthy families ,my state has a large amount of communes.to join,you,must have a skill they need,and be voted in.

Sounds most unlike what is suggested.

Agreed, Any man-led system doomed

 

[Corn Pop]

People who don't work for others profit.

 

[Michael74]

What do people get taught, "get a career and go work for some good well established company", not "become a sole trader and work for yourself"...

About 10% of the population is self employed. Starting a new business in the modern world is risky and complicated. Its not like in days of yore when people had their own carpenter shop or could make tents while traveling. Today, many things are made by machine, not by hand. Most people can't afford to buy a lot of expensive machines to make things with.

Service workers can still be self employed. Many nurses work out of their homes, and child care workers baby sit a few children in their homes. Amish carpenters still make furniture using hand tools, and some people are self employed on farms.

Most people don't know how to compete with corporations though. Corporations can buy lots of machines to build things with, machines to farm with, and lots of computers to offer services with. Its a different world than in days of yore when most things were done by hand. Back in the day most people were self employed farmers, who farmed by hand or oxen. Now machines produce most food, while most people work in offices or factories with lots of machines and computers to help them do their tasks.

 

[WIP]

I mean aside from people being encouraged to work for others so they stay poor and afraid and never work for themselves and grow and prosper, they don't even get taught responsiblity of basic accounting like doing tax returns, I mean, an employer withholds there employee's tax and then files everyones tax returns in this country, why?. People should get the full sum of money before tax in there bank accounts and should file there own returns. People don't even have the responsibility to do there taxes.

Withholdings are a blessing, actually. Most people would neglect to save money to pay the tax and would also neglect to pay a quarterly tax and therefore would come to the end of the year faced with a huge tax liability. Then, after being unable to pay the tax, they would go into default and now owe back taxes, late fees, and penalties.

 

[WIP]

About 10% of the population is self employed. Starting a new business in the modern world is risky and complicated. Its not like in days of yore when people had their own carpenter shop or could make tents while traveling. Today, many things are made by machine, not by hand. Most people can't afford to buy a lot of expensive machines to make things with.

Which is where investors enter the picture.

 

[WIP]

Most people don't know how to compete with corporations though. Corporations can buy lots of machines to build things with, machines to farm with, and lots of computers to offer services with. Its a different world than in days of yore when most things were done by hand. Back in the day most people were self employed farmers, who farmed by hand or oxen. Now machines produce most food, while most people work in offices or factories with lots of machines and computers to help them do their tasks.

This is true. It is too expensive to do things by hand. Machinery reduces input costs in the long haul making it possible to offer a lower cost end product and that makes the company more competitive. We think an automobile is expensive today. Imagine what they would cost if we mined the raw materials by hand with pick and shovel and built and assembled every part by hand. Automobiles would cost a fortune beyond anyone's wildest dreams.

Then, of course, some other competing company would develop a machine to save costs and wallah, we come full circle.

 

[Michael74]

Which is where investors enter the picture.

Yes, but entrepreneurs rarely buy a lot of machines just for themselves to use. They hire lots of employees to tend the machines. So we are back to most people working for someone else in the machine age.

 

[Michael74]

We think an automobile is expensive today.

The auto industry is a case in point. Investors don't give millions of dollars worth of machines to a self employed auto worker. They hire a manager who in turn hires thousands of auto workers to tend the various machines. Its not practical for one self employed person to turn out cars that can compete with Toyota.

In days of yore the village carpenter could be self employed and build horse drawn carts competitively with just a few relatively inexpensive hand tools. The machine age has turned the majority from self employed subsistence farmers into hired hands. Its just the nature of the times, and capitalism. Thousands of people must work together to tend the machines that make cars.

 

[daninthelionsden]

The auto industry is a case in point. Investors don't give millions of dollars worth of machines to a self employed auto worker. They hire a manager who in turn hires thousands of auto workers to tend the various machines. Its not practical for one self employed person to turn out cars that can compete with Toyota.

In days of yore the village carpenter could be self employed and build horse drawn carts competitively with just a few relatively inexpensive hand tools. The machine age has turned the majority from self employed subsistence farmers into hired hands. Its just the nature of the times, and capitalism. Thousands of people must work together to tend the machines that make cars.

One sobering thing I heard is that with the industrial revolution, the Earth is producing more food than it was actually intended. Fossil fuel coupled with machines and fertilizer are making for the world food production to be artificially bountiful. This is in contrast to a world without machines, would only be able to sustain 2 or 3 billion people max. We are something like 3 billion over populated....making us slaves to chemicals and machines for our very survival.

 

[Corn Pop]

Withholdings are a blessing, actually. Most people would neglect to save money to pay the tax and would also neglect to pay a quarterly tax and therefore would come to the end of the year faced with a huge tax liability. Then, after being unable to pay the tax, they would go into default and now owe back taxes, late fees, and penalties.

Bad money management skills. That's one main reason people cry broke and poverty and complain about the rich. There own poor decisions put them where they are and then they want to blame someone else. Always someone else fault. The education system don't teach anyone budgeting and accounting. People leave school and don't know anything.

 

[Corn Pop]

If I was sensible with my money through life and im nearly 40 now i would have had over a million in assets by now, I don't blame anyone for my poor decisions. There is no excuses why I'm near 40 and broke. And I was never on a good wage, I just wasn't responsible with my money.

 

[WIP]

Bad money management skills. That's one main reason people cry broke and poverty and complain about the rich. There own poor decisions put them where they are and then they want to blame someone else. Always someone else fault. The education system don't teach anyone budgeting and accounting. People leave school and don't know anything.

I agree with you here. But do you see what you did? You put the blame on the education system. Why can't we as parents do what Scripture tells us to do?

Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it.
Proverbs 22:6 NKJV

Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
Ephesians 6:4 ESV

 

[Corn Pop]

I agree with you here. But do you see what you did? You put the blame on the education system. Why can't we as parents do what Scripture tells us to do?

Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it.
Proverbs 22:6 NKJV

Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
Ephesians 6:4 ESV

No I didn't blame the education system I just said it doesnt teach those life skills and many parents are lazy, they just send there kids to school all day everyday thinking someone else will guide them and teach them everything they need to know. Most parents probably don't even know what there kids do for homework or learn at school.

 

[Corn Pop]

Some people just don't grow up due to Parents being there servants. I mean seriously I have many friends with children and i find it amazing how they still get served when they are very capable of doing things themselves, even at a young age, like doing the dishes or cooking dinner or even just hoover, clean up there stuff after themselves. I mean seriously kids dont even take there dinner plates to the bench and rinse it and then sit there and wait for there pudding to be served them on a platter.

Many seem to get a free ride until they leave school at 16-21 and then they on there own and don't know crap and think they entitled because they don't know the real world, no money management skills, always been given freebies and treated like a king and queen.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Some people just don't grow up due to Parents being there servants. I mean seriously I have many friends with children and i find it amazing how they still get served when they are very capable of doing things themselves, even at a young age, like doing the dishes or cooking dinner or even just hoover, I mean seriously even just take there dinner plate to the bench and rinse it.

Many seem to get a free ride until they leave school at 16-21 and then they on there own and don't know crap and think they entitled because they don't know the real world, no money management skills, always been given freebies and treated like a king and queen.

You would be a great candidate to mentor young teens in giving them a heads up about the responsibilities of adulthood. I could see you mentoring foster kids/orphans etc. I think you may very well have a gift in this area.

 

[Corn Pop]

I don't think I would be a good mentor, well I could be a good mentor as long as people do not follow by my example. I do not want to be like Moḥammud and create an absolute tragedy.

 

[Michael74]

One sobering thing I heard is that with the industrial revolution, the Earth is producing more food than it was actually intended. Fossil fuel coupled with machines and fertilizer are making for the world food production to be artificially bountiful. This is in contrast to a world without machines, would only be able to sustain 2 or 3 billion people max. We are something like 3 billion over populated....making us slaves to chemicals and machines for our very survival.

Yes, going back to 17th century farming methods means going back to 17th century population. Famines were frequent back in the day.

The globe didn't reach 1 billion till about 1800.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Yes, going back to 17th century farming methods means going back to 17th century population. Famines were frequent back in the day.

The globe didn't reach 1 billion till about 1800.

The biggest underlying crises due to raise its head is the falling water tables under America's bread basket. The aquifers are emptying and will reach crises levels in a matter of a couple of decades. China is at risk of not enough clean fresh water for its population as well.

 

[Michael74]

The biggest underlying crises due to raise its head is the falling water tables under America's bread basket. The aquifers are emptying and will reach crises levels in a matter of a couple of decades. China is at risk of not enough clean fresh water for its population as well.

True, and its a competition between farming and industry for that scarce resource. Its being used much faster than its being replenished.