Should we obey church leadership, or the Holy Spirit?

[NewLifeInChrist]

Yeah, I try not to involve myself in too much debate with Catholics anymore either. They have their beliefs and they tend to be very staunch. I see it as doing no good to argue with them unless the Spirit of God specifally leads me to. Otherwise I feel I am likely just going to drive them farther away from truth than to it.
If Don Adams reads discussion that can in any way be related to Catholicism he will interject, and often have a hard time not responding because he feels continually compelled to defend his church's beliefs. I'm not compelled to do anything.

Granted, I used to be that way, but these days I am more often moving only as the Holy Spirit tells me to, and how He tells me to, and have grown wise to the uselessness of debate in most instances.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden In Him

I was in a conversation with my nephew a few months back about online debate and he asked me what results I have seen. I said I see some, but not much results. He asked. "Then why do you do it?" I said it was because I am trying to do what the Lord wants me to do. He said that because of the lack of results I should stop my outreach online and focus entirely on in-person outreach because that's where I'd get the best results. I wondered whether he even heard me when I said I was doing it because the Lord wanted me to do it.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I was in a conversation with my nephew a few months back about online debate and he asked me what results I have seen. I said I see some, but not much results. He asked. "Then why do you do it?" I said it was because I am trying to do what the Lord wants me to do. He said that because of the lack of results I should stop my outreach online and focus entirely on in-person outreach because that's where I'd get the best results. I wondered whether he even heard me when I said I was doing it because the Lord wanted me to do it.

There can be some good in it, on both ends. On rare occasions I will actually get something myself. But the usual mindset is that we are contending for the faith or standing in defense of the gospel, and I view it this way:

Jesus didn't spend most of his time talking to the unsaved, nor to the masses. He occasionally spoke to larger crowds, and He occasionally addressed the scribes and Pharisees when He had to, but if you look closely, most of His time was spent teaching the disciples. It's a matter of where are we investing our time most wisely; in those who have ears to hear or those who do not. But personal calling can also come into play here. For my own part, I am not called to the unsaved. I am called to train those who have a close relationship with the Lord. I have almost nothing in common with those who do not, and no giftings in the area of evangelism. I certainly let my life be a witness to the unsaved, the back-slidden and the deceived, but it would be more up to the Lord and those He calls to it to reach those types of people than for me to attempt to do something that is beyond my calling, and something I'm not equipped for and have not been led to do.

I can be extremely good at disciplining others, and this is something that is needed on the forums on occasion unfortunately. But as far as debate goes, I'm not much for the haranguing. I used to debate with people as a form of entertainment; a sport. I grew tired of doing it for personal reasons, however, so if I don't see any good coming from it for anyone involved, I will end it, and quickly.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Yes, this is part of how the sensual (which is to say, fleshly), individual-centered version of the Christian faith has developed. This version of Christianity seeks to experience God, not as the immaterial Spirit that He is (John 4:23-24), above and outside His physical Creation, but as One who is of a kind with the substance of the universe, who can be felt, with whom one can have the same flesh-focused, sensual (senses-oriented) interaction one has with the material world, and who provokes one's emotions sharply, even to the point of hysteria. In fact, these sensual, highly-subjective believers think they MUST have these sorts of sense-stimulating, fleshly experiences of God if they are to have a truly deep, spiritual experience of Him.

This grossly sensual approach to God is greatly aided by an ignorance of God's word, and by making Scripture inferior, and subject, to one's "personal experience." It's impossible, however, if one puts God's word above one's experience where it ought to be, to indulge in this sort of sensual, me-centered "spirituality." There's not only no good ground for such fleshly "spiritual living" in the Bible but dire warnings in Scripture against it!

Galatians 6:7-8
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption...

Romans 8:6-8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 7:18
18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh...

Galatians 5:17
17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another...

It's been...disturbing to me to observe otherwise sensible people throw wide the doors of their minds to irrationality, gross subjectivism and sensuality in their "pursuit" of God. Sadly, the result has been the blasphemous and degrading "experiences" of God that we see in things like "sort-of-true/semi-accurate prophetic words," false "healings," "toking/soaking/drunkenness in the Spirit," pagan-esque, hysterical moments of spiritual convulsions, and so on. The World laughs, or course, at the ridiculous, lunatic degradation of those who profess to know and walk with God, seeing in such degradation good cause never to take Christ and the Gospel seriously.

I don't take offense to this because none of it applies to me. But I do feel sorry for you. Knowing God is the greatest blessing of salvation (John 17). And He gave us His Spirit so that we may know Him personally and intimately. (John 14)

You quote those Scriptures above and apply them to others who also seem to me to be going astray. But curiously, your analysis applies to you as well. Though God is Spirit, you don't want to interract with Him on a spiritual level, but only on a material level. You only trust what you can see with your eyes, hear with your ears, and touch with your hands. That is the definition of fleshly Christian living.

You know the Scriptures. They say the things that God has for us are not learned through our fleshly physical senses. But He reveals them to us through His Spirit. This is not speaking of physical interraction, but of spiritual interraction. Again, this is the reason He gave us His Spirit, so that He may teach us the deep things about Him that we otherwise could never know. (1 Cor 2)

The Lord is the Spirit. We must learn to trust Him. Teaching people not to listen to Him is just plain wrong.

 

[donadams]

I don't take offense to this because none of it applies to me. But I do feel sorry for you. Knowing God is the greatest blessing of salvation (John 17). And He gave us His Spirit so that we may know Him personally and intimately. (John 14)

You quote those Scriptures above and apply them to others who also seem to me to be going astray. But curiously, your analysis applies to you as well. Though God is Spirit, you don't want to interract with Him on a spiritual level, but only on a material level. You only trust what you can see with your eyes, hear with your ears, and touch with your hands. That is the definition of fleshly Christian living.

You know the Scriptures. They say the things that God has for us are not learned through our fleshly physical senses. But He reveals them to us through His Spirit. This is not speaking of physical interraction, but of spiritual interraction. Again, this is the reason He gave us His Spirit, so that He may teach us the deep things about Him that we otherwise could never know. (1 Cor 2)

The Lord is the Spirit. We must learn to trust Him. Teaching people not to listen to Him is just plain wrong.

The spirit leads the apostolic church Jn 16:13 then they are to teach the people Matt 28:19 otherwise you get spiritual anarchy

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

The spirit leads the apostolic church Jn 16:13 then they are to teach the people Matt 28:19 otherwise you get spiritual anarchy

I didn't know Catholicism had a dog in this fight. But it makes sense now that you mention it.

Edit: I should say something about the substance of your comment.

According to the web, anarchy means, "a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority or other controlling systems".

The idea that spiritual anarchy ensues when people turn to God as their authority and submit to His control is foreign to Christianity. On the contrary,

We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,​

The One who is and who was and who is to come,​

Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.​

(Re 11:17)​

Thankfully, He has not delegated his great power to another but has retained it for Himself and reigns.

 

[Tenchi]

I don't take offense to this because none of it applies to me. But I do feel sorry for you. Knowing God is the greatest blessing of salvation (John 17). And He gave us His Spirit so that we may know Him personally and intimately. (John 14)

I'm glad none of what I wrote applies to you. Thank God. Too many today, I think, are of the kind I described, thinking they are spiritual when, in fact, they are profoundly carnal.

I experience the work of the Holy Spirit in my life everyday. But it is of the sort described in God's word, not the sensual, hyper-emotional, me-centered stuff that counterfeits genuine - which is to say, biblical - life in the Spirit (John 16:8-13; John 14:26; Romans 8:13-14; 2 Corinthians 3:18; Ephesians 3:16, etc.). It is sad, to me, that knowing nothing, really, of the content of my life you'd so quickly assume I'm in a...lesser place spiritually to your own. Like I said, patronizing (as well as ignorant).

You quote those Scriptures above and apply them to others who also seem to me to be going astray. But curiously, your analysis applies to you as well. Though God is Spirit, you don't want to interract with Him on a spiritual level, but only on a material level.

Well, again, this is a statement from profound ignorance as to the actual content/character of my living and experience of God. Also, your remark in this quotation assumes a sort of spirituality that you have by no means properly established from Scripture - a spirituality you think is objectively real because, as far as I can tell, you just feel strongly (which is to say, subjectively) that it is.

You only trust what you can see with your eyes, hear with your ears, and touch with your hands. That is the definition of fleshly Christian living.

Nope. What I trust is God's word, not subjective experiences totally without basis in Scripture. Many Christians today, like yourself, are determined that others should accept as "of God" whatever they feel is true about Him, and, not surprisingly, they do the same - as you do in this quotation above - with fellow believers. But why wouldn't they? If they are comfortable making unfounded/poorly-grounded assertions about God, why would they balk at doing so to other Christians?

You know the Scriptures. They say the things that God has for us are not learned through our fleshly physical senses. But He reveals them to us through His Spirit. This is not speaking of physical interraction, but of spiritual interraction.

I wonder if you can precisely define what you mean, here. What is, according to God's word, a "spiritual interaction," exactly? Will you be circular and subjective in your definition? Many believers who use this phrase are; or they are incredibly murky about what they mean. How about you? Do you know what distinguishes the Spirit's conviction of a believer from the mere pangs of conscience any atheist might feel when they do wrong? Do you know what sets apart the Spirit's illumination of a believer to God's Truth from the learning of Scripture an atheist or Muslim might do in order to trip up biblically-ignorant Christians? Do you know how to tell the Spirit's strengthening of a believer from mere self-effort? Your ideas about the Spirit's "communications" are pretty...thin biblically-speaking, so I wouldn't be surprised to find the same thinness in your answers to these questions, too.

The Lord is the Spirit. We must learn to trust Him. Teaching people not to listen to Him is just plain wrong.

But I'm not doing any such thing. I am merely warning people off of the highly-subjective, biblically-tenuous (at best), counterfeit of life in the Spirit that is plaguing modern western Christianity. The Spirit definitely interacts with those in whom he dwells, but in the way God defines in His word, not in the way the individual Christian, from their often deeply mistaken subjective feeling and experience, want to define the Spirit's interactions with them.

 

[donadams]

I didn't know Catholicism had a dog in this fight. But it makes sense now that you mention it.

Edit: I should say something about the substance of your comment.

According to the web, anarchy means, "a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority or other controlling systems".

The idea that spiritual anarchy ensues when people turn to God as their authority and submit to His control is foreign to Christianity. On the contrary,

We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,​

The One who is and who was and who is to come,​

Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.​

(Re 11:17)​

Thankfully, He has not delegated his great power to another but has retained it for Himself and reigns.

Really?

I could produce tons on verses to the contrary here’s a few

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...


John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Acts 16:17
The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

2 cor 5:8 ordained priests have the ministry of reconciliation

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!

They have authority to send others as well until Christ returns in glory!

apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!

Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.


The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20


The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!

Thks

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Really?

I could produce tons on verses to the contrary here’s a few

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...


John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Acts 16:17
The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

2 cor 5:8 ordained priests have the ministry of reconciliation

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!

They have authority to send others as well until Christ returns in glory!

apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!

Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.


The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20


The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!

Thks

I can tell that you believe this.

 

[donadams]

I can tell that you believe this.

What good is sacred scripture if we don’t believe and obey?

 

[donadams]

What good is sacred scripture if we don’t believe and obey?

They have care for our souls and we cannot be saved without a priest

 

[Tenchi]

What good is sacred scripture if we don’t believe and obey?

"A text removed from its context becomes a pretext."

You may be able to offer long lists of verses you believe make your case, but in reality, understood in their context and in the light of the entirety of God's word, they do no such thing. I've demonstrated this in other threads when you "Throw the Elephant," posting reams of Scripture that you've mistakenly thought supported your view.

 

[WIP]

They have care for our souls and we cannot be saved without a priest

Wow, that's a pretty bold statement. Cannot be saved without a priest? I assume you're speaking of a priest of the Catholic church. I don't recall from my Catholic upbringing any time when I was taught that the only way to salvation is through a priest. I submit that there is only one priest that one must be saved and that is our High Priest, Jesus.

Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
Hebrews 4:14 NKJV

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Acts 4:8-12 NKJV

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
John 14:6 NKJV

And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Mark 16:15-16 NKJV

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:16-18 NKJV

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

I'm glad none of what I wrote applies to you. Thank God. Too many today, I think, are of the kind I described, thinking they are spiritual when, in fact, they are profoundly carnal.

I'm not as glad about your patronizing statement of "sympathy," however. Though, I'm not surprised by it, either. Pitying condescension is often the refuge of those who "just know" they're right, though they can't offer any good reason for this conviction.

I didn't mean for it to be patronizing or condescending.

I experience the work of the Holy Spirit in my life everyday. But it is of the sort described in God's word, not the sensual, hyper-emotional, me-centered stuff that counterfeits genuine - which is to say, biblical - life in the Spirit (John 16:8-13; John 14:26; Romans 8:13-14; 2 Corinthians 3:18; Ephesians 3:16, etc.). It is sad, to me, that knowing nothing, really, of the content of my life you'd so quickly assume I'm in a...lesser place spiritually to your own. Like I said, patronizing (as well as ignorant).

I'm just reacting to your reactions. What did you mean by quoting John 16:8-13? Here is what it says in the NKJV (I also included verses 14 and 15):

And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.​

12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.​

You are opposed to the idea that the Lord speaks to us, tells us things, and declares things to us, right? Or have I totally misread what you are saying?

Well, again, this is a statement from profound ignorance as to the actual content/character of my living and experience of God. Also, your remark in this quotation assumes a sort of spirituality that you have by no means properly established from Scripture - a spirituality you think is objectively real because, as far as I can tell, you just feel strongly (which is to say, subjectively) that it is.

I'm just reacting to you saying He doesn't speak to us. One example is that you said you ask God for wisdom and you get it from the wisdom that you find in the Bible. That's not exactly the same as receiving wisdom from Him directly.

Nope. What I trust is God's word, not subjective experiences totally without basis in Scripture.

That's what I'm saying. You need the physical book. And even though it points you to the God who lives in your heart and speaks to you from there concerning the deep things that only He knows, you don't want anything to do with that. Why? Because it's spiritual? You think listening to the Spirit is subjective?

Many Christians today, like yourself, are determined that others should accept as "of God" whatever they feel is true about Him, and, not surprisingly, they do the same - as you do in this quotation above - with fellow believers. But why wouldn't they? If they are comfortable making unfounded/poorly-grounded assertions about God, why would they balk at doing so to other Christians?

I can't follow what you're saying.

I wonder if you can precisely define what you mean, here. What is, according to God's word, a "spiritual interaction," exactly? Will you be circular and subjective in your definition? Many believers who use this phrase are; or they are incredibly murky about what they mean. How about you? Do you know what distinguishes the Spirit's conviction of a believer from the mere pangs of conscience any atheist might feel when they do wrong? Do you know what sets apart the Spirit's illumination of a believer to God's Truth from the learning of Scripture an atheist or Muslim might do in order to trip up biblically-ignorant Christians? Do you know how to tell the Spirit's strengthening of a believer from mere self-effort? Your ideas about the Spirit's "communications" are pretty...thin biblically-speaking, so I wouldn't be surprised to find the same thinness in your answers to these questions, too.

I thought you would recognize that what I was saying is a paraphrase of 1 Corinthians 2:9-14:

9 But as it is written:​

​

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,​

Nor have entered into the heart of man​

The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”​

​

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.​

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.​

Why are you asking me to defend and explain the concept that God reveals the deep things about Himself to us through His Spirit? No one knows these things except Him, and He teaches us those things by direct revelation from His Spirit and we discern them in our spirits. If He didn't do it this way, there is no other way for us to know those things because they are not learned through the eyes, ears, or emotions (i.e., physical means).

These are not just words on a page, they explain how/why God interracts with us and teaches us through His Spirit.

But I'm not doing any such thing. I am merely warning people off of the highly-subjective, biblically-tenuous (at best), counterfeit of life in the Spirit that is plaguing modern western Christianity. The Spirit definitely interacts with those in whom he dwells, but in the way God defines in His word, not in the way the individual Christian, from their often deeply mistaken subjective feeling and experience, want to define the Spirit's interactions with them.

We're back to the same question again. Have I totally misunderstood your stance? You believe God speaks to us?

 

[donadams]

"A text removed from its context becomes a pretext."

You may be able to offer long lists of verses you believe make your case, but in reality, understood in their context and in the light of the entirety of God's word, they do no such thing. I've demonstrated this in other threads when you "Throw the Elephant," posting reams of Scripture that you've mistakenly thought supported your view.

What is the context of 1 John 5:21

1 John 5:21
Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

there is no other mention of idols in all the letters of John

All scripture is the inspired word of God even one word!

In context ex 20 only has 9 commandments

 

[Hidden In Him]

All,
Continued disrespectful posting of members involved in this or any other discussion on this forum will result in post editing, post deletion, being banned from this thread or more aggressive measures. See that you abide by ToS if you wish to be a member here.

If there are any issues with this post, take it up with staff.

 

[donadams]

Wow, that's a pretty bold statement. Cannot be saved without a priest? I assume you're speaking of a priest of the Catholic church. I don't recall from my Catholic upbringing any time when I was taught that the only way to salvation is through a priest. I submit that there is only one priest that one must be saved and that is our High Priest, Jesus.

Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
Hebrews 4:14 NKJV

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Acts 4:8-12 NKJV

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
John 14:6 NKJV

And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Mark 16:15-16 NKJV

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:16-18 NKJV

It’s a trick question!

There is only one savior, Jesus Christ and He is a priest! Heb 7:17
And high priest heb 8:1 therefore there are ordained priests of the same order under his authority

Thanks

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Excellent.

I have witnessed exactly what you are saying in this post.

These people are being led by feelings, experiences and the environment around them and believing it is Holy Spirit.

It is a "look at me, I am more Spiritual than you" attitude.

Thank you for your post.

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." (Ro 8:14)​

Every Christian is being led around by the Spirit of God, even if they don't recognize it. But if someone does recognize it, and points it out to others for them to learn, it's not a "look at me" or an "i'm better than you" attitude.

 

[donadams]

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." (Ro 8:14)​

Every Christian is being led around by the Spirit of God, even if they don't recognize it. But if someone does recognize it, and points it out to others for them to learn, it's not a "look at me" or an "i'm better than you" attitude.

We are lead by men, apostles ordained priests! Amen!

Bishops / shepherds who care for our souls

 

[WIP]

It’s a trick question!

There is only one savior, Jesus Christ and He is a priest! Heb 7:17
And high priest heb 8:1 therefore there are ordained priests of the same order under his authority

Thanks

I don't think God uses trickery.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

We are lead by men, apostles ordained priests! Amen!

Bishops / shepherds who care for our souls

"If I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ." (Ga 1:10)