NewLifeInChrist
Member
- Sep 3, 2011
- 291
- 61
Keith Green... Now that's a blast from the past. He was a very spiritual person. Didn't realize his wife wrote a book about his life story.
-
-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
-
-
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
Should we obey church leadership, or the Holy Spirit?
- Thread starter Hidden In Him
- Start date
NewLifeInChrist
Member
- Sep 3, 2011
- 291
- 61
I think you are going beyond what RCC teaches. Doesn't RCC officially accept part of the blame for the great schism and the reformation?
Tenchi
Member
- Oct 10, 2022
- 3,370
- 1,668
I have yet to meet someone who held the "spirit-to-spirit" view of divine communication who could define precisely - and more importantly, biblically - what this meant. Romans 8:16 is not, as far as I understand the verse, referring to some amorphous, mystical knowledge but to the life and work of the Spirit within the true child of God. It is his life and work clearly seen within the individual believer that "bears witness with their spirit" that s/he is a genuinely born-again, adopted child of God. As Paul wrote in the chapter, the Holy Spirit enables the person in whom he dwells to "put to death the deeds of the flesh," (vs. 13), he leads every true child of God (vs. 14), and he counters a fear of God as dreadful Judge and Punisher within the child of God, encouraging in them a love for Him as heavenly Father - Abba - instead (vs. 15, Romans 5:5; Galatians 5:22). God's word offers many other objective indicators, the "witness," of the indwelling Holy Spirit, too, by which a person can be certain of their salvation:
- Self-sacrificing, agape love of the brethren (1 John 3:14; 1 John 4:7-11).
- A hunger for, and delight in, the word of God (Jeremiah 15:16; Psalm 119).
- God's remediating discipline (Hebrews 12:5-11).
- The conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 16:8; Revelation 2-3).
- The strengthening of the Holy Spirit (Philippians 2:13; 4:13; Ephesians 3:16; Ephesians 6:10).
- The teaching of the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16).
- One's transformation by the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23; 2 Corinthians 3:18; 1 Peter 5:10).
- The comfort of the Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 1:3-4).
This isn't an exhaustive list of the things by which the Holy Spirit "bears witness" with my spirit that I'm a child of God, but these are, I think, the most readily observable, objective manifestations of the Spirit's life and work in one's daily living. It was to these things that I think Paul was referring when he wrote to the believers at Corinth that they could examine themselves, and Paul, and see whether or not they were in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5-6).
It is not necessary - or biblical - to consign the question of the reality of one's spiritual, second birth to a subjective sense, a "spirit knowledge" (whatever that is), that one is truly adopted by God as one of His own.
What does it mean for the Holy Spirit to "testify" of Christ? Jesus explained in the following passage:
John 16:8-14
8 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
How does the Spirit "testify" of Christ to us? By convicting us of what is true about him, about our sin, and about God's judgment of our sin. He does this, of course, in tandem with our hearing of the Gospel (Romans 10:14; 2 Timothy 1:12b). He also "guides" us into all truth as we are in the truth, the word of God, the Bible, studying it carefully and prayerfully, remaining under the Spirit's control as we do so. He "speaks" to us through Scripture, illuminating the spiritual, eternal truth of it to our hearts and minds, prompting us to apply it in the way Scripture prescribes. This is why we see over and over and over in the Bible injunctions to be in the word of God constantly and deeply (Psalms 1, Psalms 119, Matthew 4:4; 1 Peter 2:2; 2 Timothy 3:16-17).
Continued below.
Tenchi
Member
- Oct 10, 2022
- 3,370
- 1,668
When, then, I come to 1 Corinthians 2:10-16, I understand that it is within the confines of Scripture that the Spirit "reveals" and "teaches" me God's truth, His "wisdom" that is revealed in the "Lord of Glory," Jesus Christ (vs. 7-8). Unlike the first century Christian, I have the entire canon of the New Testament at hand, fully revealing to me all that God wants me to know concerning Christian doctrine and practice (2 Timothy 3:16-17). I don't have to depend upon an apostle to write an epistle to my church, or wait upon the arrival of a copy of an apostle's letter written to another church or individual, in order to be taught by the Holy Spirit the "deep things of God." If I want to be "guided into all truth" by the Holy Spirit all I have to do is get into God's word, prayerfully, in conscious submission to him, trusting that he will do as Scripture promises he will in teaching me from it.
This doesn't happen by way of an actual in-the-mind conversation that I have with the Holy Spirit, however, as though I were sitting and chatting with him over a cup of coffee at Starbuck's. Instead, there are a series of "Ah ha!" moments, moments where the "lightbulb comes on," and I understand new things and new levels and ways in which they apply to my life.
Anyway, I hope this clarifies things for you concerning where I'm coming from on the matter of how the Spirit communicates.
I don't know of any place where Paul says explicitly and plainly that the Spirit told him with words in his "heart" or through some mysterious "spirit knowledge" to go one place but not another, or to do one thing but not another. He wrote of the Spirit directing him, forbidding his going into Asia, for example, but he doesn't ever say that this sort of communication was by way of a voice in his mind. Instead, I see God leading most plainly, clearly and objectively through "open doors," "doors" of opportunity (1 Corinthians 16:9; 2 Corinthians 2:12; Colossians 4:3), and through those "doors" closing; through provision of the means to move through those "doors" of opportunity (or not); through being able to well-align my pursuit of something with God's clearly-established hierarchy of priorities for my life (His glorification (1 Corinthians 10:31); the furtherance of His kingdom (Matthew 6:33); loving and serving the Church (1 Corinthians 12; 1 John 4:7-11); evangelizing the lost (Matthew 28:20; Mark 16:15), etc.); and through the "stamp of the supernatural" upon events that confront me (e.g. a Muslim having a dream about Jesus who directs him to Christians passing through his village the next day). None of these things involve mere subjective feeling or impulse, which are notoriously vacillating and misleading.
No, this is a faulty conclusion, I'm afraid. The Bible offers many descriptions of how God has communicated but among these various descriptions there is no description of an in-the-mind voice speaking to a person. If I was looking at a menu that didn't include, say, raw octopus tentacles as an item, though it did list pancakes, salads, desserts, and burgers, would it be reasonable for me to assume that such an item was actually available? No. Likewise, it isn't that the Bible is entirely silent on the matter of how God communicates with us, but that of all the things listed on the biblical "menu" of God's communications with us, in-the-mind voices doesn't appear. Why, then, would I assume it was the way God would commonly communicate with me? Is it really going beyond the scope of the biblical "menu" of God's communication with us to say that what isn't listed on that "menu" isn't, therefore, available? I don't see how.
Put another way, the Bible doesn't ever say God will appear to me dressed in a clown outfit, riding a unicorn. Is it, then, "going beyond Scripture," to say He won't? I'm pretty sure you'd say not. But why can I make such a statement reasonably and confidently in this case but not in the case of an in-the-mind communication from God that the Bible also doesn't ever say will be the way God communicates with me?
This is all I have time to discuss, at the moment. It may be a couple of days before I can write any more. Thanks for the back-and-forth on this subject. It's given me an opportunity to think through more precisely my views on this matter and to rehearse the biblical and rational grounds for them.
This doesn't happen by way of an actual in-the-mind conversation that I have with the Holy Spirit, however, as though I were sitting and chatting with him over a cup of coffee at Starbuck's. Instead, there are a series of "Ah ha!" moments, moments where the "lightbulb comes on," and I understand new things and new levels and ways in which they apply to my life.
Anyway, I hope this clarifies things for you concerning where I'm coming from on the matter of how the Spirit communicates.
I don't know of any place where Paul says explicitly and plainly that the Spirit told him with words in his "heart" or through some mysterious "spirit knowledge" to go one place but not another, or to do one thing but not another. He wrote of the Spirit directing him, forbidding his going into Asia, for example, but he doesn't ever say that this sort of communication was by way of a voice in his mind. Instead, I see God leading most plainly, clearly and objectively through "open doors," "doors" of opportunity (1 Corinthians 16:9; 2 Corinthians 2:12; Colossians 4:3), and through those "doors" closing; through provision of the means to move through those "doors" of opportunity (or not); through being able to well-align my pursuit of something with God's clearly-established hierarchy of priorities for my life (His glorification (1 Corinthians 10:31); the furtherance of His kingdom (Matthew 6:33); loving and serving the Church (1 Corinthians 12; 1 John 4:7-11); evangelizing the lost (Matthew 28:20; Mark 16:15), etc.); and through the "stamp of the supernatural" upon events that confront me (e.g. a Muslim having a dream about Jesus who directs him to Christians passing through his village the next day). None of these things involve mere subjective feeling or impulse, which are notoriously vacillating and misleading.
No, this is a faulty conclusion, I'm afraid. The Bible offers many descriptions of how God has communicated but among these various descriptions there is no description of an in-the-mind voice speaking to a person. If I was looking at a menu that didn't include, say, raw octopus tentacles as an item, though it did list pancakes, salads, desserts, and burgers, would it be reasonable for me to assume that such an item was actually available? No. Likewise, it isn't that the Bible is entirely silent on the matter of how God communicates with us, but that of all the things listed on the biblical "menu" of God's communications with us, in-the-mind voices doesn't appear. Why, then, would I assume it was the way God would commonly communicate with me? Is it really going beyond the scope of the biblical "menu" of God's communication with us to say that what isn't listed on that "menu" isn't, therefore, available? I don't see how.
Put another way, the Bible doesn't ever say God will appear to me dressed in a clown outfit, riding a unicorn. Is it, then, "going beyond Scripture," to say He won't? I'm pretty sure you'd say not. But why can I make such a statement reasonably and confidently in this case but not in the case of an in-the-mind communication from God that the Bible also doesn't ever say will be the way God communicates with me?
This is all I have time to discuss, at the moment. It may be a couple of days before I can write any more. Thanks for the back-and-forth on this subject. It's given me an opportunity to think through more precisely my views on this matter and to rehearse the biblical and rational grounds for them.
Last edited:
NewLifeInChrist
Member
- Sep 3, 2011
- 291
- 61
Yeah. "He bears witness" does not mean "He bears witness". Just like,
- He will testify of Me (Jn 15:26) does not mean "He will testify"
- whatever He hears He will speak (Jn 16:13) does not mean "He will speak"
- He will tell you things to come (Jn 16:13) does not mean "He will tell you"
- He will take of Mine and declare it to you. (Jn 16:15) does not mean "He will declare it"
- But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. (1 Co 2:10) does not mean "He reveals"
- These things we also speak, ... in words which ... the Holy Spirit teaches (1 Co 2:13) does not mean "He teaches"
You are mixing and matching things. Some things in this list are referring to characteristics of the new man which was "created according to God in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph 4:24). Other things are activities of the Spirit, and others are a mixture of the two. For example, we hunger and thirst for righteousness and love the brethren because we are new creatures in Christ. The Holy Spirit disciplines us and comforts us - those are His activities. The Holy Spirit teaches us (His activity) and we are able to learn from Him (our activity) because we are new creatures in Christ.
No, that's not what it says. He doesn't say, I'll empower you to understand the truths in the Bible. He says, I'm going to give you the Holy Spirit who has at His disposal all my resources (and by the way that means "every resource that exists") and He will disclose those things with you.
14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. (Jn 16:14–15)
NewLifeInChrist
Member
- Sep 3, 2011
- 291
- 61
I get it.
9 But as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. (1 Co 2:9–12)
This isn't talking about God revealing things to us by His Spirit? This is talking about us reading the Bible and discerning the spiritual things in it using our God-given sense of discernment?
OK
- Dec 2, 2022
- 5,683
- 330
No the eastern bishops went into schism
There is no such thing as a reformation!
Unless you speak of Christ’s reformation of the old covenant into the new covenant heb 9:10
There was a rebellion or revolt in 16th century when they rejected Christ and his church and his revealed truth!
Thks
NewLifeInChrist
Member
- Sep 3, 2011
- 291
- 61
Wounds to unity
817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276
- Dec 2, 2022
- 5,683
- 330
What are you quoting?
- Dec 2, 2022
- 5,683
- 330
The unity of the church established by Christ cannot be harmed, schism does not mean split but cut off, a limb separated from the body dies, life remains with the body!
Tenchi
Member
- Oct 10, 2022
- 3,370
- 1,668
??? I'm afraid you haven't "got it" at all. But this seems more a result of your bias than of an unclear, or unbiblical, explanation on my part. Also, what you've written here isn't anything like a rebuttal or counter-argument; it's just snide dismissal.
No, they are all of them the result of the life and work of the Holy Spirit in the born-again believer. The character of the "new man" is derived from the indwelling Holy Spirit who is the source of the believers new life in Christ. There is no "new creature in Christ" without the Holy Spirit making of a person his "temple," without his washing and renewal of them spiritually, without his life, the life of Christ, coming to reside within a person. (1 Corinthians 6:19-20; Romans 8:9-16; Titus 3:5) I do no "mixing and matching," then, but simply point to what the Bible says about a believer's spiritual life being entirely the effect of the life and work of the Holy Spirit within them.
??? This is argues against what I didn't actually say... We are empowered to understand by the Holy Spirit which is to say he discloses to us the things of God. These are the same thing, from what I can see in Scripture.
??? What is it you mean when you say, "God-given discernment"? Given in what way, by what means? There is no spiritual discernment apart from the illuminating work of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:14-16
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.
16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
How do we have the "mind of Christ" in and through the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9) who is the Holy Spirit. And by this "mind of Christ" I discern the things of God, by the Spirit's work I have the "Ah ha!" moments I described to you.
NewLifeInChrist
Member
- Sep 3, 2011
- 291
- 61
Catechism of the Catholic Church
NewLifeInChrist
Member
- Sep 3, 2011
- 291
- 61
The difference between our beliefs isn't the presence or absense of "Ah Ha!" moments. You think it is us using our "mind of Christ" to discover that truth and I think it is the Holy Spirit communicating that truth to us and us receiving it. Scripture does back up the idea that teaching is one of the Holy Spirit's active (not passive) roles. All the verses I've quoted make this clear, as does this verse:
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. (1 Jn 2:27)
There is no way to spin this into us using our minds of Christ to learn the truth. In the phrase, "the same anointing teaches you", "the anointing" is the subject (Greek Nominative Case), "teaches" is the verb (Greek Present Tense Active Voice), and "you" is the direct object (Greek Accusative Case). It says He teaches you. It does not say you teach yourself or that your mind teaches you or that you use your mind to learn the truth.
Though I have not looked in detail at the Greek grammar in all the passages I've quoted, I'm certain that a deep dive into those verses will yield the same results I presented here. I did not think I needed to dive into Greek grammar to defend that the English translations presented the Holy Spirit as the subject who actively interracts with us with us being the object of His direct interaction.
- Dec 2, 2022
- 5,683
- 330
Sorry but let’s stay with tradition, like the catechism of the council of Trent.
Thanks
NewLifeInChrist
Member
- Sep 3, 2011
- 291
- 61
I'm confused. Are you saying the Catechism of the Catholic Church posted on the Vatican's web site is not acceptable to you and that there is a stricter version to which you adhere?
Tenchi
Member
- Oct 10, 2022
- 3,370
- 1,668
No, this isn't an accurate of my view at all.
Yes, I do think that my God-given mind is integral to how I understand God's truth and cannot be circumvented in obtaining truth and comprehending it. But the delivery of that truth to my mind and the impression of it upon my mind such that greater, spiritual understanding is achieved is the Spirit's doing. But his illumination of God's truth to me doesn't take the shape of some amorphous, impossible to precisely and biblically describe "voice" speaking directly to my spirit (sans my mind), but is experienced in moments when the "lightbulb comes on" in my mind (and heart) concerning the meaning and import to my life of God's word.
It seems to me that in keeping things "mysterious" or "spiritual" regarding how the Spirit teaches believers, much room is created for assertions about how and what the Spirit has communicated that are unbiblical and even, sometimes, blasphemous. When a Christian says, "God told me," or "The Spirit said to me," the reflex of some believers is to accept entirely uncritically what follows. If God said it, they seem to think, it cannot be ignored, or assessed, or criticized. It seems not to occur to these credulous believers that the claim of God having communicated might itself be false. All they need to hear is the claim that God has spoken and they shut off their brain (which isn't to what God speaks, anyway), and nod their heads eagerly in anticipation of some new "word" from their Maker.
I'm not saying this is the case with you, NewLifeInChrist; I'm speaking more generally of a hyper-charismatic subculture within western Christianity with which I'm unhappily personally familiar that exists in no small part because of its refusal to be strictly and carefully biblical in its understanding of God and His truth and in particular the nature of life in the Spirit.
In any case, the "mind of Christ" is not something I've just cooked up all on my own but is, as I showed in my last post, a clearly stated feature of the born-again person. They possess this "mind" in the Person of the Holy Spirit, who "leads them into all truth." (1 Corinthians 2:14-15; John 16:13)
I've never suggested otherwise.
??? I've never indicated that it is only by use of our minds, our intellect, that we understand God's truth. This is a Strawman of what I've shown from God's word.
This is all an argument against your Strawman of what I've explained from God's word. As such, it is entirely unnecessary, failing to address/challenge what my actual views are completely.
Well, if you're intent upon defeating your Strawman, I guess you'll have to...
- Dec 2, 2022
- 5,683
- 330
Yes cos Vatican 2 and it’s catechism is moderist
NewLifeInChrist
Member
- Sep 3, 2011
- 291
- 61
Ok, maybe I misunderestood you.
Maybe you could explain, in a Biblical way, how you know these things are from the Spirit and not from yourself (or the devil). There are many people with lightbulb moments whose lightbulb moments can't be trusted.
The same could be said about your lightbulb moments. You may say it is from the Lord, but you saying it does not make it so. What is your proof it is from the Lord, and why should anyone believe you?
Of course, the answer for both instances is the same... Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths. (Proverbs 3:5-6)
I would characterize this as throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
It would be very difficult to try to separate Christ from the mind of Christ, but there would be something wrong with saying that if I think it in my mind, it must be from the Holy Spirit. This leads to the same question you raised against me... What Biblical way do we have to distinguish the source of the thoughts in our minds?
I didn't mean to create a strawman. It does appear that you believe God communicates to us by His Spirit. You also appear to believe the Holy Spirit's presence gives us the mind of Christ so that He may teach us the deep things about Himself that only He knows. And you appear to believe what He communicates to us makes its way from His Spirit (the source) into our physical minds/hearts (the destination). What exactly is your objection? Are you just opposed to recognizing the process for what it is when it happens and characterizing it as "God spoke to me", or "God showed me", or "God taught me", or "God opened my eyes", or "God revealed it to me", or "God convicted me"?
NewLifeInChrist
Member
- Sep 3, 2011
- 291
- 61
Liberals!!!
Tenchi
Member
- Oct 10, 2022
- 3,370
- 1,668
Great question. One, I think, that many Christians either never think to ask, or are afraid to ask. They want as much latitude as possible, it appears to me, to shoehorn into Christian living, into life in the Spirit, a great deal of what is carnal. It doesn't help that secular society is mad with hyper-subjectivity and the insane resistance to objective - and constraining - reality. I think this hyper-individualism and subjectification of Truth has crept into the Church, manifesting in things like "Progressive Christianity" and the way so many churches tribalize within themselves into age groups, marital status groups, interest groups, political groups, and so on.
Anyway, how does one distinguish the illumination of the Spirit from a counterfeit of the same? I turn to the Bible for answers, of course, considering the matter along the following lines:
What does the Bible tell me the flesh looks like and is ultimately aimed at?
What does the Bible tell me the life and work of the Spirit looks like and is ultimately aimed at?
When these things are clearly-defined in one's thinking, is it possible to distinguish clearly fleshly Self-talk from the illuminating work of the Spirit?
The flesh (by which I mean the "carnal mind" - Romans 8:5-8) is well-described in the NT. It's temporally-focused, slave to the appetites and impulses of the body, radically seeking its own satisfaction and gratification (Philippians 3:18-19). Such selfishness always produces conflict with others, especially with those who are likewise selfish (1 Corinthians 3:1-3; James 3:14-16; Titus 3:3). Such self-centeredness must inevitably be sensual, desiring stimulation of the physical senses and emotions, leading often to various addictions (porn, drugs, food, etc. - 2 Peter 2; Jude 1:4-16).
The life of the Spirit stands in very sharp contrast to the life carnal living produces (even when it is cloaked in religious piety and external law-keeping). Rather than being Self-focused, the Spirit is always glorifying Christ, pressing the child of God to look away from themselves and grow more and more occupied with Jesus (John 16:14; Philippians 1:21; Philippians 3:7-8; 2 Corinthians 3:18, 1 Corinthians 2:2, etc.). The fruit of the Spirit is never more of us, but more of himself, who is the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9; Galatians 5:22-23) producing ever-increasing holiness, self-sacrifice, and truth in the life of the believer, always fanning the flames of desire for Christ and resisting our carnality.
So, when I think I've been "illuminated" by the Spirit, I do an analysis, putting the "new understanding" I think I've had under the "magnifying glass" of what I've pointed out from God's word. In what direction does my "lightbulb moment" move me? Toward self-congratulation and pride, or toward humility and an increased appreciation for God and His awesome wisdom and Truth? Does my new understanding bring God more into focus, or myself? As a result of the Spirit's illumination, am I left pondering my own psychology and intellect, my own insightfulness, my own life-story, or am I delighted by the knowledge that, having learned more of God, I move closer to Him and am better able to be used by Him?
Does what I want to say is from the Spirit, his illumination, correspond precisely with God's Truth revealed in Scripture? In immediate context, is what I think is Spirit- illumination of God's Truth correct? Does what I want to call the Spirit's teaching synthesize well with the rest of God's word, also? Does this illumination conform to God's laws of logic and principles of reason?
Finally, is what I think that the Spirit's taught me impacting my practical living and my own thinking, values and beliefs such that Christ is more evident in me (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 4:7-11)? Most importantly, in consequence of the Spirit's illumination, do I desire God more (Matthew 22;36-38)? Is my love for Him increased, deepened and intensified, such that I will do anything to protect my communion with Him, first and foremost, to die to myself (Matthew 16:24-25; John 12:24-25; Colossians 3:1-3)?
When it's just carnal Self counterfeiting the Spirit's illumination, Christ, love for him, fellowship with God and the crucified life are not radically front-and-center. Instead, sensuality (not sexuality, necessarily) and emotionality, self-improvement, self-analysis, and self-interest supplant the Spirit's Christ-centeredness. Self-serving philosophies of the World often mix into my what I want to say the Spirit's taught me, too, watering down God's Truth, even contradicting it sometimes, making lots of room for pious carnality.
See above. I won't ever point to some inner, subjective "knowing" in justification of my claim that my "lightbulb" moment is from/of God. If I can't reconcile well my illumination by the Spirit with God's Truth given to me in His word, then I will not say my Spirit-illumination is of the Spirit. If the Spirit's illumination doesn't make me more like Christ, inflame my desire (love) for God, and prompt me to ever-more radical heart-separation from the World, the Flesh and the devil, then I'm lying (primarily to myself) if I say it has been the Spirit who has illuminated me.
Well, as you can see above, there's bit more to it than this.
I'm not clear on what you mean here...
Impossible, I would say.
Right. Which it's so incredibly important for Christians to be able to objectively analyze the actual character and source of their thoughts.
Yes, absolutely.
Yup.
That this bit is entirely subjectivized, determined to be so almost entirely on a "I just know" basis that has allowed a great deal of blasphemous stuff to go on among Christians. In consequence of this radical subjectivity about life in the Spirit, religious shysters, who are always keen to make merchandise of believers, offer weekend conferences where, for hundreds of dollars a pop, one can learn to hear the incredibly still and small "voice" of the Spirit, thrash about on the floor in a fit of hysteria, soak, or toke, or be drunk in the Spirit, or practice growing their faith by attempting to run through a wall. Awful, degrading and deeply carnal (as well as demonic) stuff.
No, I'm opposed to those who would offer a very unbiblical and highly-subjective counterfeit of life in the Spirit doing so. I've seen terrible devastation spiritually among those who have been chewed up and spat out by the hyper-charismatic culture, all the result of a migration away from the objective standard of God's word.