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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Should Women Preach The Word Of God ?
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
P
peace4all
Guest
I told u I agree with you sometimes 
destiny
Member
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor. 3:17
This doesn't mean freedom to sin, or freedom to do as self pleases. This means freedom to do what pleases God.
Peace4all is a testament sometimes as to why unbelievers want nothing to do with a God who is all about rules and regulations which keep a person from being who they know they are in their heart, or which defies common logic which comes from not rightly dividing the word.
God gives each of us giftings and it is man who has always tried to suppress God from being able to move through His people.
I would only echo whats already been said...
This doesn't mean freedom to sin, or freedom to do as self pleases. This means freedom to do what pleases God.
Peace4all is a testament sometimes as to why unbelievers want nothing to do with a God who is all about rules and regulations which keep a person from being who they know they are in their heart, or which defies common logic which comes from not rightly dividing the word.
God gives each of us giftings and it is man who has always tried to suppress God from being able to move through His people.
I would only echo whats already been said...
Absolutely and unequivocally NO.
2 Timothy 3:1 ff....
I will not receive Communion from a woman, either, and will get up off the rail. But, usually, to avoid all that chozzerai, I just walk out if I see women "clergy." I consider everything they do to be invalid, cuz they are not proper matter for Ordination.
2 Timothy 3:1 ff....
I will not receive Communion from a woman, either, and will get up off the rail. But, usually, to avoid all that chozzerai, I just walk out if I see women "clergy." I consider everything they do to be invalid, cuz they are not proper matter for Ordination.
lovely
Member
I want to share my heart on this matter. I know that my view is unpopular with the world, and the church, and I can live with that, but I believe it is sound and based in the Word of God. I apologize for this being long, but I wanted to cover the whole of the Word as much as one can in a single post.
1 Corinthians 14
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
Paul was trying to help order church meetings that were apparently out of order here. Women were asking questions publicly, and Paul was reminding them that it was shameful for women to speak in church...and to save their questions for their husbands at home. The speaking in church being prohibited to women was already known, and was applied to these disruptive questions as a reminder for women to obey this command in all areas of church services.
Also, verse 37 tells us that if one thinks believes that they are spiritual they should understand that Paul is giving them a commandment from God. For women to say that they are being led by the Spirit to be in authoritative positions in the church does not align with this passage. The gifts of teaching, prophecy, and other such gifts are to be used by women in God's parameters, and not in an official position that would place them in authority over men in the church.
1 Corinthians 11
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
Here we see Paul clearly stating that women have a head, the husband. The covering was possibly cultural, but the principal of submission is timeless. Paul was specifically addressing the rebellion of women here by applying a general principal of submission which was fully recognized as right by those reading. We can assume that the prophesying and praying here did not require an offical position of authority, nor did it require speaking in services because a few chapters over in I Corinthians 14:34 Paul states that it is not lawful. It was probably within the parameters of Titus 2:3-5
1 Timothy 2:8-14
8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
Women are urged to modesty in dress and behavior
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Feminism was from the beginning not just born out of corrupt chauvinism...women are fallen too.
It is for the sake of modesty that women are told not to usurp authority over the man, and so that she is not deceived in immodest behaviour. It is in her modesty in apparel, and behaviour, that she shows her love for God, and professes Godliness.
1 Timothy 2:14...example of Adam and Eve is timeless, and not cultural, or for a specific time at all, but to show that this is how it is from the beginning. Women are the weaker vessels, and men were created to lead. Why are women saved in childbearing, because we have a unique opportunity with our children to teach them of God, and raise a Godly nation...that is if we are also obeying Scripture in this area. This is not an inferior position, but rather a position designed differently, but an extremely important ministry...consider Timothy! Paul wasn't his first teacher!
Lets consider some women in Scripture....
Miriam, she was a prophetess, and even in Numbers 12:2 declared herself to be...though, in this instant she was disciplined for speaking against Moses. Micah also speaks to this Micah 6:4
Deborah, she was a judge...she was being used in a civil position by a religious nation...and probably a very wise and gifted woman, and she was also considered a prophetess. Was Deborah supposed to be leading the military? Judges 4:8-9 NO! Barak was cowardly, and even Deborah pointed out that this would cause him shame because God would deliver Sisera into the hands of a woman...Deborah was called during a time of apostasy for Israel...why? Because the land was apostate. God also used Israel's enemy to judge them during these times. God can, and will, use whomever He desires to lead, but is that the normative example, and is it the best in terms of design? Certainly the church should not be apostate, and should be honoring the positions, and roles, that are commanded in Scripture. The reason that women of today are being asked to leave positions that they once filled, and well in many, many cases, is because the men are being called to lead again. Isn't this what we desire for the bride of Christ, that she be holy for Him, and in complete submission to Him? Deborah was not normative, but called because men would not stand, and I believe she understood this. Judges 5:6-9 I thank God that He used her, and I do not think that Deborah was doing anything other than heeding the Lord.
AND consider Jael! She killed Sisera! It was not God's normative, but He used her, and Israel Grew stronger because of her and Deborah being involved in this military action. Judges 5:2
Isaiah 3:10-12
10 Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.
11 Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him.
12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.
Huldah 2 Kings 22:14 was consulted when the book of the Law was found...there were other prophets about, and they even wrote books of Scripture, but for some reason the priests wen to Huldah, and she gave them the Word of the Lord, and a great restoration came about. Once again, a woman was used by God in a capacity that was religious, and let to Josiah tearing down the idols in the high places.
Isaiah's Wife was a prophetess Isaiah 8:3
Anna, a prophetess...she was a widow after only 7 years of marriage, and was 84 years old, and had since being widowed dedicated herself in service of the church. She served God night, and day, with fastings...and prayers. And after Simeon blessed Christ, Anna came in and spoke of Him to all those who looked for redemption, and she gave thanks to the Lord. Luke 2:36-38
Phoebe, she was a deaconess...a servant of the church, literally, and probably did things as described in Titus 2:3-5
Priscilla, she had a ministry with Aquilla, but she was very significant...even risking her life to help Paul, and hosted a church in her home.
Phillip's virgin daughters were prophetesses. Acts 21:8-9
These women honored God with their lives, and were called to great things in a not so normative manner, but I do not believe that these sisters would like us to use them as examples of usurping the authority of men, and more importantly God. What are the parameters of a woman's ministry? Consider Acts 18:26 and Titus 2:3-5 It is only the offices of the church that God prohibits women to hold, and in services that he prohibits them from ministering. Certainly women were used, and continue to be used, by God to further His kingdom by spreading the Gospel...even in the church within the parameters of the Word. Men should not discard them, or consider them unimportant to the work of God, or incapable of posessing gifts, and ministering with those gifts. The problem is that many churches have gotten away from some of those services...hospitality, caring for the sick, caring for the widows, caring for the orphans, helping the poor, etc. Women have liberty, and authority, and gifts, but all are within the parameters that God has set in place for them. Today, the normative ministries of women, are abnormal! Liberty in the Spirit is in obedience to Him, and in serving Him under the protection of His commands. Our methods, or how to apply this command may be different in degree, but the underlying principal is very clear in the Word that women should not be teaching men, or holding a position of authority in the church.
There are distinctions between men and women, but they are not based on worth Galatians 3:28 says they are equal in the eyes of God concerning faith. However, the distinctions are there, and God is the one who designed it. The Godhead is a good example of distinction...Christ submitted to God, yet being equally God. Our designs are different in role. Women were created second. Women are told to be submissive, and men are not. Physically we are different. This is God's design for the family, and the church. The Lord bless all of you.
1 Corinthians 14
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
Paul was trying to help order church meetings that were apparently out of order here. Women were asking questions publicly, and Paul was reminding them that it was shameful for women to speak in church...and to save their questions for their husbands at home. The speaking in church being prohibited to women was already known, and was applied to these disruptive questions as a reminder for women to obey this command in all areas of church services.
Also, verse 37 tells us that if one thinks believes that they are spiritual they should understand that Paul is giving them a commandment from God. For women to say that they are being led by the Spirit to be in authoritative positions in the church does not align with this passage. The gifts of teaching, prophecy, and other such gifts are to be used by women in God's parameters, and not in an official position that would place them in authority over men in the church.
1 Corinthians 11
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
Here we see Paul clearly stating that women have a head, the husband. The covering was possibly cultural, but the principal of submission is timeless. Paul was specifically addressing the rebellion of women here by applying a general principal of submission which was fully recognized as right by those reading. We can assume that the prophesying and praying here did not require an offical position of authority, nor did it require speaking in services because a few chapters over in I Corinthians 14:34 Paul states that it is not lawful. It was probably within the parameters of Titus 2:3-5
1 Timothy 2:8-14
8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
Women are urged to modesty in dress and behavior
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Feminism was from the beginning not just born out of corrupt chauvinism...women are fallen too.
It is for the sake of modesty that women are told not to usurp authority over the man, and so that she is not deceived in immodest behaviour. It is in her modesty in apparel, and behaviour, that she shows her love for God, and professes Godliness.
1 Timothy 2:14...example of Adam and Eve is timeless, and not cultural, or for a specific time at all, but to show that this is how it is from the beginning. Women are the weaker vessels, and men were created to lead. Why are women saved in childbearing, because we have a unique opportunity with our children to teach them of God, and raise a Godly nation...that is if we are also obeying Scripture in this area. This is not an inferior position, but rather a position designed differently, but an extremely important ministry...consider Timothy! Paul wasn't his first teacher!
Lets consider some women in Scripture....
Miriam, she was a prophetess, and even in Numbers 12:2 declared herself to be...though, in this instant she was disciplined for speaking against Moses. Micah also speaks to this Micah 6:4
Deborah, she was a judge...she was being used in a civil position by a religious nation...and probably a very wise and gifted woman, and she was also considered a prophetess. Was Deborah supposed to be leading the military? Judges 4:8-9 NO! Barak was cowardly, and even Deborah pointed out that this would cause him shame because God would deliver Sisera into the hands of a woman...Deborah was called during a time of apostasy for Israel...why? Because the land was apostate. God also used Israel's enemy to judge them during these times. God can, and will, use whomever He desires to lead, but is that the normative example, and is it the best in terms of design? Certainly the church should not be apostate, and should be honoring the positions, and roles, that are commanded in Scripture. The reason that women of today are being asked to leave positions that they once filled, and well in many, many cases, is because the men are being called to lead again. Isn't this what we desire for the bride of Christ, that she be holy for Him, and in complete submission to Him? Deborah was not normative, but called because men would not stand, and I believe she understood this. Judges 5:6-9 I thank God that He used her, and I do not think that Deborah was doing anything other than heeding the Lord.
AND consider Jael! She killed Sisera! It was not God's normative, but He used her, and Israel Grew stronger because of her and Deborah being involved in this military action. Judges 5:2
Isaiah 3:10-12
10 Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.
11 Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him.
12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.
Huldah 2 Kings 22:14 was consulted when the book of the Law was found...there were other prophets about, and they even wrote books of Scripture, but for some reason the priests wen to Huldah, and she gave them the Word of the Lord, and a great restoration came about. Once again, a woman was used by God in a capacity that was religious, and let to Josiah tearing down the idols in the high places.
Isaiah's Wife was a prophetess Isaiah 8:3
Anna, a prophetess...she was a widow after only 7 years of marriage, and was 84 years old, and had since being widowed dedicated herself in service of the church. She served God night, and day, with fastings...and prayers. And after Simeon blessed Christ, Anna came in and spoke of Him to all those who looked for redemption, and she gave thanks to the Lord. Luke 2:36-38
Phoebe, she was a deaconess...a servant of the church, literally, and probably did things as described in Titus 2:3-5
Priscilla, she had a ministry with Aquilla, but she was very significant...even risking her life to help Paul, and hosted a church in her home.
Phillip's virgin daughters were prophetesses. Acts 21:8-9
These women honored God with their lives, and were called to great things in a not so normative manner, but I do not believe that these sisters would like us to use them as examples of usurping the authority of men, and more importantly God. What are the parameters of a woman's ministry? Consider Acts 18:26 and Titus 2:3-5 It is only the offices of the church that God prohibits women to hold, and in services that he prohibits them from ministering. Certainly women were used, and continue to be used, by God to further His kingdom by spreading the Gospel...even in the church within the parameters of the Word. Men should not discard them, or consider them unimportant to the work of God, or incapable of posessing gifts, and ministering with those gifts. The problem is that many churches have gotten away from some of those services...hospitality, caring for the sick, caring for the widows, caring for the orphans, helping the poor, etc. Women have liberty, and authority, and gifts, but all are within the parameters that God has set in place for them. Today, the normative ministries of women, are abnormal! Liberty in the Spirit is in obedience to Him, and in serving Him under the protection of His commands. Our methods, or how to apply this command may be different in degree, but the underlying principal is very clear in the Word that women should not be teaching men, or holding a position of authority in the church.
There are distinctions between men and women, but they are not based on worth Galatians 3:28 says they are equal in the eyes of God concerning faith. However, the distinctions are there, and God is the one who designed it. The Godhead is a good example of distinction...Christ submitted to God, yet being equally God. Our designs are different in role. Women were created second. Women are told to be submissive, and men are not. Physically we are different. This is God's design for the family, and the church. The Lord bless all of you.
Lewis
Member
People please go to this link and let me know what you think. And thanks for taking all that time lovely.
http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/womspeak.html
http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/womspeak.html
Gabbylittleangel
Member
Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Mat 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
The angel said unto the women, "Go. Tell...he is risen from the dead."
Isn't that preaching the gospel?
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Mat 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
The angel said unto the women, "Go. Tell...he is risen from the dead."
Isn't that preaching the gospel?
Vic C.
Member
Lets not forget that judges in that time in the OT were actually Rulers. 8-)
http://ny.essortment.com/oldtestamentju_rbpg.htm
N
Nocturnal_Principal_X
Guest
Should women preach the word, well if by that if you mean proclaim the gospel to the lost (witness) then yes! After all, all are called to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15; Luke 24:46-47).
If by that you mean be a pastor or an elder then no.
I believe women are not to be pastors as it is unbiblical; the Bible speaks against women pastors. Even though women are not to be pastors they are still very important and have other very important roles to fill in the church.
I would like to add that I have a great deal of respect for women and do not view my self superior to them simply because I am a man, however; I do believe women do have a certain role in the church and in marriage. I hold such a view because Scripture speaks of such a reality and I believe Scripture is the inerrant authoritative Word of God.
To better articulate my thoughts please look at the following link: http://www.christiancourier.com/article ... the_church
Another helpful article can be found at the following link:
http://www.carm.org/questions/womenpastors.htm
If by that you mean be a pastor or an elder then no.
I believe women are not to be pastors as it is unbiblical; the Bible speaks against women pastors. Even though women are not to be pastors they are still very important and have other very important roles to fill in the church.
I would like to add that I have a great deal of respect for women and do not view my self superior to them simply because I am a man, however; I do believe women do have a certain role in the church and in marriage. I hold such a view because Scripture speaks of such a reality and I believe Scripture is the inerrant authoritative Word of God.
To better articulate my thoughts please look at the following link: http://www.christiancourier.com/article ... the_church
Another helpful article can be found at the following link:
http://www.carm.org/questions/womenpastors.htm
jgredline
Member
Rob said:
Rob
Like Nocturnal said. If this is a post about should women be pastors then the answer is NO. I will start of with this verse.
Here we go.. 1 Tim 2:12-14
12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
The New King James Version. 1982
Lewis
Member
I said this back in the winter when I had this argument with starbyfar. What about Queens who ruled over whole kingdoms at that time, and had the power to put men to death, and guess what" they did. And men had to bow before these queens. Would some of you tell her, I am not going to bow to you because you are women ? My thing is, these women were in a position of authority. So tell me what's the difference ? I mean these queens told men what to do, and the elders of the church too.
jgredline said:
The problem I have with that verse is the choice of words. If Paul was making a rule to govern the churches he would have said God doesn't permit women but he didn't, instead he said he doesn't permit. I posted a link in the thread that started before this one, http://www.cloudsofheaven.org/2006/03/w ... rship.html Check it out it covers it pretty well.
lovely
Member
Hi Rob, and Lewis,
Rob, did you see all the verses?...."34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law...and... 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." I think Paul uses something that was already understood concerning women, to correct women in the churches for various reasons, and to show that as far as the church, and even her home, are concerned, she is to honor her position by not usurping those specific leadership roles by trying to attain them for herself. She is not to lead her home, and she is not to lead the church...though she can serve each in authortative way under both.
Lewis, I listed the ladies in Scripture to show that God has used them in civil, religious, and even military, roles in a great way. This is why we need to be clear about the fact that a woman needs to come under her "head", but has liberty under that head to lead others in Christ. A woman can teach with authority, share the Gospel with authority, hold positions with authority, but she must first be submissive to her own husband, and she must not seek to usurp the authority of the church. All other areas she has liberty, and is given gifts by the Spirit to use in these areas to glorify God. There are many positions of service in the government, and in the church, that women are able to fulfill...under their husbands. I think you are confusing this issue with another one that may go hand in hand, and that is should a woman be a keeper at home when married with children, and what does that mean exactly.
The Lord bless both of you.
Rob, did you see all the verses?...."34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law...and... 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." I think Paul uses something that was already understood concerning women, to correct women in the churches for various reasons, and to show that as far as the church, and even her home, are concerned, she is to honor her position by not usurping those specific leadership roles by trying to attain them for herself. She is not to lead her home, and she is not to lead the church...though she can serve each in authortative way under both.
Lewis, I listed the ladies in Scripture to show that God has used them in civil, religious, and even military, roles in a great way. This is why we need to be clear about the fact that a woman needs to come under her "head", but has liberty under that head to lead others in Christ. A woman can teach with authority, share the Gospel with authority, hold positions with authority, but she must first be submissive to her own husband, and she must not seek to usurp the authority of the church. All other areas she has liberty, and is given gifts by the Spirit to use in these areas to glorify God. There are many positions of service in the government, and in the church, that women are able to fulfill...under their husbands. I think you are confusing this issue with another one that may go hand in hand, and that is should a woman be a keeper at home when married with children, and what does that mean exactly.
The Lord bless both of you.