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Should Women Preach The Word Of God ?

I first must comment that the Lord has no favorites. There is neither man nor woman, nor slave nor free, for we are all one in Christ. With that having been said, we are the Body of Christ. We, who are many, are many parts of the Body, each with different roles and responsibilities to the Church. Why ought women not be Pastors and elders? Because it is not their role. They are better able to lead women, and men, likewise, men. The Lord allowed this custome to persist so no one may say one gender is greater than the other.

Indeed, women should proclaim the Gospel. But men ought to shame themselves for allowing the hands our mothers, sisters, and wives to grow impatients with our indecision. Notice how there are no epistles against Pual's.. The women knew he wasn't putting them down, but was glorifying them to do the work that they were called to do.

And I also assert that the Lord may call whom he pleases, since even Deborah judgeed Israel. But the Man's role is to lead the Chruch, and the Woman's role is to keep the church on it's feet.

But I concede that this debate will probably persist. I am pleased to see that women want to serve God, some just don't know how.

This question requires prayer and Faith in God's word. The Lord bless you all.
 
Lewis W said:
Great post dude.

Gundam
I too agree it is a good post.
But lewis. You still have not answered the question.
Both Lovely and myself would like to know.

Rob and Lewis
Contex is everything when your dealing with specific arguments.
The greek uses the same word for pastor / teacher.
So again. be clear. what is the question? Don't be ambiguas.

Is the question. Should women be pastors / teachers ?
 
Lewis W said:
Is the question. Should women be pastors / teachers ?
Both

Then according to scripture the answer is no. That is not the womens role in the church.

1 Tim 2:11-14
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
The New King James Version.


As far as her part in public meetings of the church, a woman is to learn in silence with all submission. This is consistent with the rest of Scripture on this subject (1 Cor. 11:3–15;1Co 14:34, 1Co 14:35).
When Paul says: I do not permit a woman to teach, he is speaking as inspired of God. This does not represent Paul’s own personal prejudice, as some say. It is God who decrees that women should not have a public teaching ministry in the church. The only exceptions to this are that they are permitted to teach children (2 Tim. 3:15) and young women (Tit. 2:4). Neither is a woman to have authority over a man. That means that she must not have dominion over a man, but is to be in silence or quietness. Perhaps I should add that the latter part of this verse is by no means limited to the local assembly. It is a fundamental principle in God’s dealings with mankind that man has been given the headship and that woman is in the place of subjection. This does not mean that she is inferior; that is certainly not true. But it does mean that it is contrary to God’s will that the woman should have authority or dominion over the man.
To prove his point, Paul first of all goes to the creation of Adam and Eve. Adam was formed first, then Eve. The very order of the creation was significant. By creating man first, God intended him to be the head, the one who would exercise direction, the one who would have authority. The fact that woman was created second means that she should be in submission to her husband. By basing his argument on the order of creation, Paul rules out any thought that this is a matter of local culture.
The second proof refers to the entrance of sin into the human race. Instead of approaching Adam directly, the serpent went to Eve with his temptations and lies. According to God’s intention, Eve should not have acted independently. She should have gone to Adam and put the matter before him. Instead of that, she allowed herself to be deceived by Satan and fell into transgression.
In this connection, it is noteworthy that false teachers today usually visit homes when the wife is most apt to be there alone, that is, when the husband will most probably be away at work.
Adam was not deceived. It appears that he sinned with his eyes open. There are those who suggest that when he saw that his wife had already fallen into sin, he wanted to maintain his unity with her, and so he himself plunged into sin. But the Scriptures do not state this. They merely state that the woman was deceived, but that Adam was not. Keep in mind that what I am saying is in the context of Church, not out side the church.
Put is bluntly, while Paula White says and does some good things, she is sinning against God everytime she preaches / teaches.
 
Here is a Chapter I scanned out of the book by John MacArther
differant by desighn.


CHAPTER 7
God’s High Call for Women


No other passage of Scripture has been subject to more scrutiny in the ongoing feminist debate over the role of women in the church than 1 Timothy 2:9–15. Not just chapters, but entire books have been devoted to refuting the historical and traditional interpretations of this important passage (e.g. R.C. Kroeger and C.C. Kroeger, I Suffer Not a Woman [Grand Rapids: Baker, 1992]).
To capsulize the variety of interpretations from evangelical and charismatic feminists, J. David Pawson offers this revealing paraphrase:

Verse 11: You must teach women so that they can become teachers themselves; as with men under instructions, the women also must not interrupt with aggressive opinions of their own.
Verse 12: Personally, I don’t make a practice of letting women teach because hitherto they have not had the educational opportunity to study the Scriptures; asserting their somewhat ignorant ideas in an authoritarian manner could be seen as putting down their husbands.
Verse 13: Nevertheless, when Adam was created, he was immediately given a colleague to complete and complement him as a coequal, sharing fully his dual role of ruling the world and teaching others the word of God.
Verse 14: Satan was able to deceive Eve only because she was not present when God spoke to Adam and she had only a second-hand report of what was said; Adam, on the other hand, knew better and his sin, unlike hers, was inexcusable.
Verse 15: This is why God spoke so tenderly to Eve, promising to vindicate her innocence and save her from undeserved dishonor and shame by choosing a woman to bear that special Child who would defeat Satan and thus save all women of faith, love, holiness, and good sense (Leadership Is Male [Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1990], 82–83).

Others, such as Gretchen Gaebelein Hull, don’t want to even deal with passages like this one and 1 Corinthians 11:2–16 and 14:33–35 because they are too “hard†to interpret (Equal to Serve: Women and Men in the Church and Home [Old Tappan, N.J.: Fleming H. Revell, 1987], 183–89). Hull even adds Ephesians 5:22–24, Colossians 3:18, and 1 Peter 3:1–6 to the list. In her attempt to prove that the Bible does not teach male headship, she is forced to dispose of those passages that indeed teach male headship. Hull concludes, “Those of us who respect God’s Word cannot force meaning where meaning is unclear. Therefore we may legitimately put these Scripture portions aside for the very reason that they remain ‘hard passages’ â€â€hard exegetically, hard hermeneutically, and hard theologically†(p. 189).
If all theologians were to follow that principle of interpretation, Satan wouldn’t need to attack the truthfulness of Scripture; he would only have to cause enough confusion over the “hard passages†for scholars to ignore them. John W. Robbins explains the tragedy of such an approach:

The demand for the ordination of women, as rebellious as it is in itself, is a symptom of a much more serious malady. The ordination of women might disfigure the church, but the disease of which it is a symptom will kill her unless it is quickly diagnosed and treated. That disease . . . is the rejection of Biblical inerrancy.
[One seminary professor] entertains the possibility that Paul contradicts himself. [Another] asserts that the Bible contains “antinomies,†a polite word for contradictions. [Yet another] picks and chooses which of the Biblical requirements for elders he is going to tolerate. . . . If the rest of Scripture, the passages concerning the Trinity, Christ’s deity, or justification through faith alone, for example, were subjected to the same exegetical mayhem as wreaked on I Corinthians and I Timothy, there would be no truth at all in our theology (Scripture Twisting in the Seminaries, Part One: Feminism, “The Most Serious Error†[Jefferson, Md.: The Trinity Foundation, 1985], 51, 53).

As we’ve noted in previous chapters, some evangelical feminists assert that Paul was simply dealing with a cultural issue and never intended his instruction to go beyond that. Among those in this camp are the Kroegers. Peter Jones comments on their book I Suffer Not a Woman:

The great insights of this study concerning Paul’s biblical answer to Gnostic distortions is vitiated by the authors’ rejection of this answer as applying only to an extreme, first-century situation. The authors fail to see that this same Gnostic heresy is back with a vengeance via the New Age teaching seeping into the contemporary church and society, and that Paul’s teaching has perhaps never been more relevant than now (The Gnostic Empire Strikes Back [Phillipsburg, N.J.: P. & R., 1992], 41).

Scripture is timeless, thus it is contemporary. Just as God never changes, neither does His Word. It is as active and living today as it was 2,000 years ago (Heb. 4:12). In spite of what feminists claim, I believe no passage is more affirming to and more necessary for women to understand than 1 Timothy 2:9–15. As we move through Paul’s words to Timothy regarding the women in the Ephesian assembly, you’ll find that his commands and restrictions are a means of great blessing, not a declaration of second-class status.
The church at Ephesus had many problems, one of which was the role of women. That is not surprising in a church plagued with false doctrine and false leaders. Some women were leading impure lives (cf. 5:6, 11–15; 2 Tim. 3:6), and that indecency carried over into the worship service. Under the pretense of coming to worship God, some women were flaunting their wealth and beauty, allowing their sexual allure to divert the focus from the worship service. Other women, desirous of being the official teachers, were usurping the role of men in the church. Their actions revealed their evil intent. Since worship is central to the life of the church, it was high on Paul’s list of things for Timothy to deal with at Ephesus.
After his discussion of evangelistic prayer in 1 Timothy 2:1–8, Paul turns to the subject of corporate worship. In this context he provides correction for the two areas of abuses, and thus establishes timeless guidelines for the behavior of women when the church meets to worship.

A CORRECTIVE REGARDING DRESS
Paul first instructs Timothy to have the women “adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments; but rather by means of good works, as befits women making a claim to godliness†(vv. 9–10). That principle is as applicable today as when it was first established.
Several ancient writers have described how women dressed in the Roman culture of Paul’s day, which no doubt influenced the church at Ephesus. The writings of Juvenal, a first-century master of satire, picture everyday life in the Roman Empire. His sixth satire describes women preoccupied with their appearance: “There is nothing that [such] a woman will not permit herself to do, nothing that she deems shameful, and when she encircles her neck with green emeralds and fastens huge pearls to her elongated ears, so important is the business of beautification; so numerous are the tiers and stories piled one another on her head! In the meantime she pays no attention to her husband!â€Â
Pliny the Elder reported that Lollia Paulina, one-time wife of the Roman Emperor Caligula, had a dress worth more than one million dollars by today’s standards. It was covered with emeralds and pearls, and she carried with her the receipts proving its value (Natural History 9:58).
Wealthy people in ancient times could dress in a style that was impossible for a poor person to matchâ€â€in contrast to today, where good clothing is affordable for most people in Western societies. A costly dress worn by a wealthy woman of Paul’s day could cost up to 7,000 denarii (one denarius was a day’s wage for the average laborer). When a woman entered a worship service wearing such a dress, she caused a sensation that would disrupt the entire service.
Rich women also displayed their wealth through elaborate hairdos with expensive jewelry woven into them. That’s what Paul meant by “braided hair and gold or pearls†(1 Tim. 2:9). The Bible does not forbid women from wearing simple braids or gold, pearls, and high-quality clothing. Both the bride of Solomon (Song 1:10) and the virtuous woman described in Proverbs 31:22 wore beautiful clothes and jewelry. However, the Bible does forbid wearing those things for wrong motives.

Presenting a Godly Appearance
Wearing expensive clothes and jewelry is inappropriate for women in the church. To come to church so attired is at best a distraction and at worst an attempt to seduce the men. It violates the purpose of the worship service, which is to focus on God. A Christian woman ought to attract attention by her godly character, not her physical beauty.
Timothy was to instruct the women to “adorn themselves with proper clothing.†“Adorn†is from kosmeō, from which we derive our English word “cosmetic.†It means “to arrange,†“to put in order,†or “to make ready.†A woman must prepare herself properly for the worship service. Part of that preparation involves the wearing of “proper clothing.†“Proper†translates kosmiō, the adjectival form of kosmeō, and could be translated “well-ordered.†The Greek word translated “clothing†encompasses not only clothing but also demeanor and action. Women are to come to the worship service fully prepared, not in disarray with an unbecoming demeanor or wardrobe. While Paul emphasizes clothing in this passage, the underlying attitude is the real issue. Proper adornment on the outside reflects a proper heart attitude.
How can you discern the sometimes fine line between proper dress and dressing to be the center of attention? The answer lies in the intent of the heart. You should examine your motives and goals for the way you dress. Is your intent to reflect the grace and beauty of womanhood? Is it to show your love and devotion to your husband? Is it to reveal a humble heart devoted to worshiping God? Or is it to call attention to yourselfâ€â€to flaunt your wealth and beauty? Or worse, to attempt to allure men sexually? The tragic number of pastors who have fallen into immorality indicates that not all women in today’s church have entirely pure motives. If you are focused on worshiping God, you won’t have to worry about how you dress because your commitment will dictate your wardrobe.

Godly Attitudes
Two attitudes ought to characterize your approach to worship: “modestly and discreetly†(v. 9). The Greek word translated “modestly†in verse 9 refers to modesty mixed with humility. At its core it connotes a sense of shameâ€â€not shame in being a woman, but shame for in any way inciting lust or distracting others from a proper worship of God. A godly woman will do all she can to avoid being a source of temptation. The word also has the connotation of rejecting anything dishonorable to God. Some would even suggest it means “grief over a sense of sin.†A godly woman hates sin so much that she will avoid anything that can produce sin in others.
“Discreetly†refers to self-control, especially over sexual passions. Women are to have control over their passions, especially in regard to the worship service.
A practical booklet expands our understanding of these two terms by asking us to consider the following dictionary definitions:

• Modest: Having a regard for decencies of behavior or dress; quiet and humble in appearance, style, etc.; not displaying one’s body; not boastful or vain; unassuming; virtuous; shy or reserved; chaste.
• Proper: Specially adapted or suitable; appropriate; conforming to an accepted standard; correct; fitting; right; decent.
• Discreet: Lacking ostentation or pretension; showing good judgment; prudent; cautious; careful about what one says or does.

The booklet goes on to state:

Our bodies are precious because they are a gift from God. They are attractive because God made us in His image for His pleasure (and if we are married, to please our mates as well). But God never intended us to flaunt ourselves or exhibit our bodies in an immodest way . . . (Rom. 12:1). . . .
Many Christians are . . . either oblivious or uncaring about the effect they have on others. They may even appear to have a real excitement and love for the Lordâ€â€however, their body is sending out a totally different message (Melody Green, “Uncovering the Truth about Modesty†[Lindale, Texas: Last Days Ministries, 1982]).

A Godly Testimony
Paul was greatly concerned that women’s testimonies be consistentâ€â€that they display “good works, as befits women making a claim to godliness†(1 Tim. 2:10). “Making a claim†is from epangellō, which means “to make a public announcement.†“Godliness†conveys the basic meaning of reverence to God. Any woman who publicly announces her commitment to Christ should support that declaration with her attitude, appearance, and conduct. She is to be adorned “by means of good works,†not by the mere externals discussed in verse 9. “Good†refers to “works†that are genuinely good, not merely good in appearance.
A Christian worships, honors, and fears God. Therefore any woman who claims to be a Christian ought to conduct herself in a godly way. That points out a major problem with the contemporary women’s liberation movement in the church. A woman cannot claim to fear God and yet disregard what His Word says about her role. She cannot violate His order for the church in the name of serving Him. Those professing reverence for God will reveal that by their attitude in coming to worship Him.

A CORRECTIVE REGARDING AUTHORITY
Paul next directs his attention to those women in the Ephesian assembly who wanted to take over the teaching roles. In 1 Timothy 2:11–14 he writes, “Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression.â€Â

Women Are Learners
Paul begins his corrective by defining women as learners during the worship service. They are not to be teachers in that context, but neither are they to be shut out of the learning process. The verb in verse 11 is an imperative form of manthanō, from which the Greek word translated “disciple†derives. Paul commands that the women be taught, or discipled. Since this section of 1 Timothy is discussing how the church is to conduct itself (cf. 3:15), the learning Paul refers to was to take place when the church met (cf. Acts 2:42). Despite the claims of some to the contrary, teaching and worship are not mutually exclusive. Rather, knowledge of God and His Word helps stimulate worship.
While it may seem obvious to us that women should be taught God’s Word, that was not true for those (like some at Ephesus, cf. 1 Tim. 1:7) who came from a Jewish background. First-century Judaism did not esteem women. Although they were not barred from attending synagogue, neither were they encouraged to learn. Even most ancient religions (and some religions existing today) perceive women as unworthy of participating in religious life. Unfortunately that historical treatment of women continues to incite modern feminism.
The traditional treatment of women in Ephesus partially explains why some in the church who overreacted to their suppression by seeking a dominant position. Paul rebukes them for that. Before he does, however, he affirms their right to learn.

A Biblical Survey
The prevalent Jewish tradition about women did not come from the Old Testament, which makes it clear women are spiritually equal to men in that:
• They Had the Same Responsibilities as Men: To obey God’s Law (in Ex. 20 the Ten Commandments are given to both men and women), to teach God’s Law (Deut. 6:6–7 and Prov. 6:20 indicates both are responsible to teach the Law to their children, which means both must first know it), and to participate in religious festivals (e.g., Ex. 12 and the Passover).
• They Had the Same Protection as Men: Penalties given for crimes against women are the same as those for crimes against men (e.g., Ex. 21:28–32). God equally values the life of a man and the life of a woman.
• They Took the Same Vows as Men: The highest level of spiritual commitment available to an Old Testament believer was the Nazirite vow, which was an act of separation from the world and devotion to God. Women as well as men could take that vow (Num. 6:2).
• They Had the Same Access to God as Men: God dealt directly with women in the Old Testament; He didn’t go through a man when He wanted to communicate with a woman. For example, the Angel of the Lord (a preincarnate manifestation of Christ) appeared to Hagar (Gen. 16:8–13) and Samson’s mother (Jud. 13:2–5).
Although women shared spiritual equality with men in the Old Testament, they did not have the same role as men:
• They Did Not Serve as Leaders: There were no queens in either Israel or Judah (Athaliah was a usurper). While it is true that Deborah served as a judge (Jud. 4:4–5:31), her case was unique. Dr. Robert L. Saucy comments,

There may be instances when the regular pattern of God’s order may have to be set aside due to unusual circumstances. When, for example, the husband and father is absent, the woman of the house assumes the headship of the family. So it would appear, there may be unusual circumstances when male leadership is unavailable for one reason or another. At such times God may use women to accomplish his purposes even as he used Deborah (“The Negative Case Against the Ordination of Women,†in Kenneth S. Kantzer and Stanley N. Gundry, eds. Perspectives on Evangelical Theology [Grand Rapids: Baker, 1979], 285).

Deborah acted primarily in the role of an arbiter, not as an ongoing leader, which explains why she called on Barak when needing military leadership against the Canaanites (Jud. 4–5). There is no mention of women priests in the Old Testament. No woman wrote any portion of the Old Testament.
• They Had No Ongoing Prophetic Ministry: No woman in the Old Testament had a prolonged prophetic ministry such as that of Elisha or Elijah. While Miriam (Ex. 15:20), Deborah (Jud. 4:4), Huldah (2 Kings 22:14), and Isaiah’s wife (Isa. 8:3) are called prophetesses, none had an ongoing ministry. Miriam, Deborah, and Huldah gave only one recorded prophecy, and Isaiah’s wife none. She is called a prophetess because she gave birth to a child whose name had prophetic meaning. A fifth woman mentioned as a prophetess, Noadiah, was a false prophetess (Neh. 6:14). God did speak through women on a few limited occasions, but no woman had an ongoing role of preaching and teaching.

The New Testament, like the Old, teaches the spiritual equality and differing roles of the sexes. As we studied in chapter 2, Galatians 3:28 teaches the absolute spiritual equality of men and women in Christ. The New Testament does not treat women as spiritual inferiors:
• They Had the Same Responsibilities as Men: All the commands, promises, and blessings of the New Testament are given equally to men and women. We have the same spiritual resources and the same spiritual responsibilities.
• They Had the Same Access to Jesus as Men: The first person Jesus revealed His messiahship to in the Gospel record was a woman (John 4). Jesus healed women (Matt. 8:14–15), showing them just as much compassion as He did men. He taught them (Luke 10:38–42), and allowed them to minister to Him personally (8:3). The first person to see the resurrected Christ was a woman (Mark 16:9; John 20:11–18).
The role distinction between men and women is preserved, however, for there is no New Testament record of a woman apostle, pastor, evangelist, or elder. Nowhere in the New Testament does a woman preach any sermon. While the daughters of Philip are said to have prophesied (Acts 21:9), their role is not defined. There is no reason to assume they had an ongoing prophetic ministry, or that they prophesied during the church service. They, like Mary the mother of Jesus (Luke 1:46ff.), or Anna (2:36–38), may have delivered prophecies elsewhere.

Learning Qualified
As we noted in chapter 2, 1 Corinthians 11:5 indicates women are permitted to speak the Word at many times and places, but Paul’s instruction in 1 Timothy restricts them from doing so in the official assembly of the church. In 1 Timothy 2:11 he qualifies the way in which women are to be learners: they are to “quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.†“Submissiveness†translates hupotagē, the noun form of hupotassō, which we discovered in chapter 2 means “to line up under.†In the context of the worship service, then, women are to be quiet and be subject to the church leadership.
Some have tried to evade the plain meaning of the text by arguing that “silently†refers to a woman’s meek and quiet spirit. Women, they contend, can preach or teach as long as they do it with the proper attitude. Others go to the opposite extreme and use this text to prohibit women from ever talking in church under any circumstanceâ€â€even to the person she is sitting next to! Neither of those options is valid, however. The context makes the meaning of “silently†quite clear.
In verse 12, Paul defines what he means: “I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man.†Women are to keep quiet in the sense of not teaching, and they are to demonstrate subjection by not usurping authority.
The Greek word translated “allow†(epitrepō) is always used in the New Testament to speak of permitting someone to do what they want. Paul’s choice of words implies that some women in Ephesus desired to teach and have authority. In today’s church, as in Ephesus, some women are dissatisfied with their God-given role. They want a prominent position, including the opportunity to exercise authority over men. There is only one biblical way to handle that situation for the good of everyone concerned, and that is to do what Paul didâ€â€honestly and directly: forbid women from taking the authoritative pastor-teacher role in the church.
Paul’s use of the present infinitive didaskein translated “to teach†could better be translated “to be a teacher.†By using the present infinitive instead of the aorist, Paul does not forbid women to teach under any circumstances, but to fill the office of a teacher.
Paul also forbids women from exercising “authority over a man.†The Greek word translated “exercise authority over†(authentein) appears only here in the New Testament. Some have attempted to evade the force of Paul’s prohibition by arguing that authentein refers to abusive or destructive authority. Women, according to this view, can both teach and exercise authority over men so long as it is not abusive or destructive (Aida Besancon Spencer, Beyond the Curse [Peabody, Mass.: Hendrickson, 1989], 87–88). Others claim it carries the idea of “author†or “originator,†thus Paul is actually saying, “I do not allow a woman to teach or proclaim herself author of man†(R.C. Kroeger and C.C. Kroeger, I Suffer Not a Woman [Grand Rapids: Baker, 1992], 192). In a study of the extrabiblical uses of authentein, however, Dr. George Knight concluded that the common meaning is “to have authority over†(The Pastoral Epistles: A Commentary on the Greek Text [Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1992], 141–42). Paul, then, forbids women from exercising any type of authority over men in the church, including teaching.
These instructions to Timothy echo what Paul earlier commanded the Corinthians, “As in all the churches of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says . . . it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in church†(1 Cor. 14:33–35, NIV). Many claim Paul was addressing a cultural issue in Corinthâ€â€nothing that ought to concern our contemporary culture. But they fail to let the text speak for itself: “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches†(vv. 33–34, NIV, emphasis added). That isn’t a cultural issue; it is God’s standard for all churches.
The context implies that the silence Paul commands is not intended to preclude women from speaking at all but to prevent them from speaking in tongues and preaching in the church. As in Ephesus, certain women in Corinth were seeking prominent positions in the church, and particularly by abusing the gifts of speaking in tongues and prophesying. Yet these women, who joined in the chaotic self-expression Paul had been condemning, should not have been speaking at all. In God’s order for the church, women should “subject themselves, just as the Law also says†(v. 34).
Women may be highly gifted teachers and leaders, but those gifts are not to be exercised over men in the services of the church. That is true not because women are spiritually inferior to men, but because God’s law commands it. He has ordained order in His creationâ€â€an order that reflects His own nature and therefore should be reflected in His church. Anyone ignoring or rejecting God’s order weakens the church and dishonors Him. Just as God’s Spirit cannot be in control where there is confusion and chaos in the church, He cannot be in control when women usurp the role He has restricted to men.
Paul then says, “If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home†(v. 35). That implies certain women were disrupting the church service by asking questions. If they desired to learn, disrupting the church service was not the way to do it. Paul also implies that Christian husbands should be well taught in the Word. Frustration with Christian men, often including their own husbands, who do not responsibly fulfill their God-given leadership assignments, can tempt many women to go beyond their biblical roles. But God has established the proper order and relationship of male-female roles in the church, and they are not to be violated for any reason. For a woman to assume a man’s role because he has neglected it merely compounds the problem. God has led women to do work that men have refused to do, but He does not lead them to accomplish that work through roles He has restricted to men.
That doesn’t mean, however, that God never permits women to speak His truth in public:
• Paul spoke with various churches and synagogues during his missionary journeys, answering questions from women as well as men (cf. Acts 17:2–4). I see nothing wrong with a woman asking questions or sharing what the Spirit of God has taught her out of the Word during informal Bible study and fellowship. In fact, when we have a question-and-answer session in our church, I believe it’s proper for anyone to ask a questionâ€â€because that’s the specified order of the time. But the ordinary worship service of the church is never to be interrupted and usurped by anyone’s questions. I also think there is a time and place for women to publicly offer a testimony of praise to the Lord.
• I thank God for the many faithful women who serve on the mission field in a variety of public ways, but refrain from leading the church. If there was ever a need for leadership on the mission field, it was in Paul’s day. He could have compromised by using women in leadership roles, but he didn’t. When a shortage of men exists on the mission field, don’t violate biblical principles but instead ask the Lord of the harvest to send more laborers (Matt. 9:38).
Elisabeth Elliot, after the murder of her husband and several other missionaries in Ecuador, was the only missionary left who could speak the language of the Auca Indians. Rather than violate the Word of God, she taught one of the Auca men the sermon each week, and he then preached it to the church until male leaders could be found.
• Women can proclaim the Word of God except when the church meets for corporate worship. The Old Testament says, “The women who proclaim the good tidings are a great host†(Ps. 68:11). The New Testament gives examples of Mary, Anna, and Priscilla declaring God’s truth to men and women (Luke 1:46–55; 2:36–38; Acts 18:24–26).
• Women can pray in public. Acts 1:13–14 describes a prayer meeting where women and men, including Jesus’ apostles, were present. But during an official meeting of the church, leading in prayer, as we’ve already seen, is a role ordained for men (1 Tim. 2:8).
Appropriate times abound for men and women to share equally in exchanging questions and insights. But when the church comes together as a body to worship God, His standards are clear: the role of leadership is reserved for men.

The Order of Creation
A popular view today is that woman’s subordinate role is a result of the Fall. Since God reversed the effects of the curse through Christ, some argue, He abolished differing male and female roles. Paul, however, grounds woman’s subordinate role in the order of Creation, not in the Fall: “For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve†(1 Tim. 2:13). As we noted in chapter 1, Eve was created after Adam to be his helper (Gen. 2:18)â€â€she was designed to follow his lead, live on his provisions, and find safety in his strength. Such tendencies were from that point on built into all women, but with the Fall came conflict.
Nor was Paul’s teaching prompted by some cultural situation at Ephesus and hence not applicable today, as others argue. He also taught this same truth to the Corinthians (1 Cor. 11:8–9).
Paul does not derive woman’s role from the Fall; he uses that event as further corroboration. He points out that “it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression†(1 Tim. 2:14).
We usually connect the Fall with Adam since Romans 5:12–21 speaks repeatedly of the one man (Adam) who ushered sin and death into the world. Although he was not deceived by Satan, as was Eve, Adam still chose to disobey God. As the head of their relationship, he bore ultimate responsibility. But we must keep in mind that he didn’t actually fall firstâ€â€Eve did (Gen. 3:1–6). When Eve abandoned the protection of Adam’s leadership and attempted to deal independently with the enemy, she was deceived.
By being so easily deceived, Eve revealed her inability to lead effectively. She had met more than her match in Satan. The Greek word translated “deceived†in 1 Timothy 2:14 is a particularly strong term: It refers to being thoroughly deceived. When a woman leaves the shelter of her protector, she exposes a certain amount of vulnerability.
The Fall resulted not only from direct disobedience of God’s command, but also from a violation of the divinely appointed role of the sexes. Eve acted independently and assumed the role of leadership; Adam abdicated his leadership and followed Eve’s lead. That does not mean Adam was less culpable than Eve, or that she was more defectiveâ€â€both were wrong. We’re all vulnerable in different ways.
Christians affirm the leadership of men in the church because it is established by Creation and confirmed by the Fall. The headship of man, then, was part of God’s design from the beginning. The tragic experience of the Fall confirmed the wisdom of that design. No daughter of Eve should follow her path and enter the forbidden territory of rulership intended for men.

THE CONTRIBUTION OF WOMEN
God designed life to revolve around relationships, and within those relationships are differing roles. In our society, unfortunately, more emphasis is placed on individuality than on relationships. People seek to satisfy themselves and focus on their rights rather than on how they can best serve others. When men and women refuse to accept their God-ordained roles in the church, family, and community, they undermine the foundational design of God for those institutions and all the relationships involved. The stability of society is at stake. If there’s one thing all the social experiments we noted have proved, it is that.
Women are not inferior to men; they simply have a different role. Many people believe the only place of power and influence in society is in a leadership position, assuming it is more fulfilling to lead than to follow. But people in nonleadership roles can be very influential. Besides, a leader carries a heavy load of responsibility that is not always desirable (James 3:1). The notion that the greatest experience in life is to be on top of the pile and control everything is an illusion. As Dr. Tannen, Maggie Gallagher, and Marilyn Quayle implied in our introduction, it is women who suffer most from that misperception. Society, in turn, suffers from not receiving the benefit of a woman’s best effort if she has been misdirected to pursue that which is not her strength.

Through Bearing Children
First Timothy 2:15 speaks somewhat cryptically of the influence women have by pursuing their strengths: “But women shall be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.†The context helps our understanding: Verse 14 speaks of women being in sin; verse 15, of women being saved. Paul was making clever use of the literary device of contrast.
“Preserved†is from sozo, the common New Testament word for salvation. Paul obviously does not intend to teach that women are saved from sin “through the bearing of children.†That would contradict the New Testament’s teaching that salvation is by faith alone. The future tense and the use of the plural pronoun “they†indicate that he was not referring to Eve. Those considerations plus the lack of any connection to the context show Paul was not referring to Mary the mother of Jesus either.
Paul does teach that although a woman precipitated the Fall, women are preserved from that stigma through child-bearing. A woman led the human race into sin, yet women benefit mankind by replenishing it. Beyond that, they have the opportunity to lead the race to godliness through their influence on their children. Far from being second-class citizens, women have the primary responsibility for rearing godly children.
A mother’s virtue has a profound impact on the life of her children. Mothers usually spend far more time with their children than do their fathers, and thus have the greater influence. For women to fulfill their calling to raise a godly seed, they must “continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.†To raise godly children, a woman must be godly herself.
Obviously God doesn’t want all women to be mothers. Some He doesn’t even want married since He has given them the gift of singleness (1 Cor. 7). Others He allows to be childless for His own purposes. But as a general rule, motherhood is the greatest contribution a woman can make to the human race. The pain of childbearing was the punishment for the first sin, but the bearing of children delivers women from the stigma of that sin.

Through Using Spiritual Gifts
Although Paul

excludes women from any activity involving the leadership of men . . . he encourages women in many forms of ministry. . . . The whole chapter 16 in Romans is an eye-opener to those who have thought of Paul as a woman hater! A third of those he commends are women. . . . They bear the title “fellow worker,†colleagues of Paul (as were Euodia and Syntyche in Philippians 4:2), which means they shared in his mission of evangelism and church-planting (J. David Pawson, Leadership Is Male, [Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1990], 89–90, emphasis in original).

The Bible teaches that each Christian, at the moment of salvation, receives complementary spiritual gifts from God that enable the church to function smoothly (Rom. 12:3–14; 1 Cor. 12:4â€â; Eph. 4:1–13). The permanent edifying gifts come in two categories: speaking gifts and serving gifts (1 Peter 4:10–11). Those gifted in speaking excel in one or more of the following: teaching, wisdom (giving practical advice), knowledge (imparting scholarly information), exhortation, and leadership. Those gifted in serving have one or more of these strengths: showing mercy, having strong faith (especially manifested in prayer), giving (meeting needs), discerning truth from error, helping (doing nonglorious essentials), and administrating or organizing.
Spiritual giftsâ€â€as opposed to church officesâ€â€are not gender defined in Scripture. An important challenge for men in church leadership is to encourage and provide opportunities for both men and women to minister to the body of Christ in ways that genuinely employ their spiritual gifts, whether predominantly speaking or serving.
God does see fit to gift some women with leadership and teaching abilities. They can and do use those gifts in situations apart from the worship service of the churchâ€â€a women’s Bible study, fellowship group, prayer meeting, or class situation, for example. There’s plenty of opportunity for women to exercise their gifts and other abilities in a manner consistent with God’s design.
Our text in 1 Timothy 2, far from being an insult to a woman’s intelligence, instead provides practical direction on how she can best apply her skills. And one of those skills may be teaching.
Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Paul teaches women to accept their God-given role. They must not seek the leadership role in the church. How tragic that so many women feel their lives are unfulfilled because they can’t function in the same role as men! For most women, their greatest impact on society is through raising godly children. If a woman is godly and if God chooses to give her children whom she raises in the “discipline and instruction of the Lord†(Eph. 6:4), she will have a profound influence on a new generation. Men have the outward, overt leadership by God’s design, but women can have just as great an influence indirectly.
 
jgredline said:
Rob and Lewis
Contex is everything when your dealing with specific arguments.
The greek uses the same word for pastor / teacher.
So again. be clear. what is the question? Don't be ambiguas.

Is the question. Should women be pastors / teachers ?

Hi again, according to the one link Lewis posted on the first page, http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/womspeak.html there is more to it than just pastor/teacher. If that verse were taken as Wives should remain silent then one could say that it doesn't permit women from taking leadership roles unless they are married.

1Co 7:8-9 LITV But I say to the unmarried men, and to the widows, it is good for them if they also remain as I am. (9) But if they do not have self control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to be inflamed.

Discuss :D
 
Then why would God make some of these female preachers exceptional ?
Meaning He has equipped them for the job, and you can feel and see the fire of the Holy Ghost working within them, when they preach, like Paula White, and look at how great a teacher Joyce Myer is. What they have is God given.
My church, The Church Of Christian Compassion has about 3 female pastors under top pastor Lonnie L Herndon, are these 3 women and the rest of them going to hell behind, preaching the Word of God. I should say not. I tell you a truth women are the ones who are really holding the church together, and they certainly out number the men in the church.
 
Well I guess I should bow out of this now, I have said enough. Unless I am prompted to comeback in.
 
Well if Joyce meyer and Paula white are your examples of a female pastor then here is good reason why they should not be pastor/teachers

Joyce meyer is a false teacher http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/wor ... tml#jmeyer

Paula White is also a false teacher
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/wor ... tml#pwhite

When you start to hear such statements like ''sow a seed'' that should raise a red flag..

As far as your female pastors going to hell, I suppose if I were catholic I would say yes, but since I am an evangelical I would say no, because there sin was and is paid on the cross as is mine. The fact that you have or there are some good female pastors preachers does not make it right and sin is still sin.
Its like being a little bit pregnant. You are or your not.
There are no good arguments for women pastors/teachers. There is not one in the whole bible. Sure there was leaders and there are leaders today that are women and do a great job, but that is differant that leading Gods church.
I have books and notes that I took when I studied this and there is no argument that will hold water. For over 20 years I believed that women could be pastors / teachers until I started to actually study that part of scripture. Bring on your arguments one by one and we will address them one by one.
One of my Wifes and mine best friend is a women pastor and would love nothing more than to be proven wrong so I / we won't have to feel odd when we are around her. She is a free methodist pastor.
I have only seeing that liberal denominations and name it and claim it churches allow women pastors. Bible believeing/ teaching churches do not.
 
I suppose if I were catholic I would say yes

Your not Catholic and I highly recommend you don't speak for us. Your not very good at it. We generally leave final judgements up to the only one qualified. Thx.
 
thessalonian said:
I suppose if I were catholic I would say yes

Your not Catholic and I highly recommend you don't speak for us. Your not very good at it. We generally leave final judgements up to the only one qualified. Thx.

Thess
Your right. Thank God I am not catholic. I thank the good Lord my mom found Jesus and sent us to a Nazarene church right before we were to start getting brainwashed in the catholic church when I was in third grade.
jg
 
You don't know what your missing I guess. Oh well. Thx for responding with a dig. I appreciate your hostile attitude toward me and my faith. Just makes me want to fellowship all over with you. :roll: My general experience with nazarene's so I guess I'm not suprized though.

By the way, you should already have been brainwashed by the third grade. :o . It's then that they start to turn you in to a zombie. :smt119
 
Well if Joyce meyer and Paula white are your examples of a female pastor then here is good reason why they should not be pastor/teachers

Joyce meyer is a false teacher http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/wor ... tml#jmeyer

Paula White is also a false teacher
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/wor ... tml#pwhite

When you start to hear such statements like ''sow a seed'' that should raise a red flag..
I would lay you odds that they were taught that junk by a few wolves in sheeps clothing of the 'male' persuation. :D
 
jgredline every pastor on TV is called a false something or the other. Fault can be found with just about everybody. People find fault with Jesus, Paul, Moses, God, you name it, people will find fault with it. And if you make a mistake and you are a pastor people will not forgive you, they would love to stone you to death. But anyway I like Paula and Joyce, don't care who else does not like them.
 
As far as your female pastors going to hell, I suppose if I were catholic I would say yes, but since I am an evangelical I would say no, because there sin was and is paid on the cross as is mine.

2 Pet 2
1: But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

:roll:
 
reply

I also like Paula and Joyce. Good Word of faith people. How about Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Hagin ministries, Jerry Saville, and many more.




May God bless, golfjack
 
Take it a step further and draw the line for me. I can't see past my earlier post.

Gabbylittleangel said:
Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Mat 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.

The angel said unto the women, "Go. Tell...he is risen from the dead."

Isn't that preaching the gospel?

These women, who were told by the angel to go tell the male disciples that Jesus Christ had risen from the dead - should not be allowed to do so in a church? Or is it okay to declare the gospel as long as it is not a paid position? What about those on the mission field, who may or may not have an actual church building? Should we call them home and draft an unwilling male to the jungle?
 
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