Bible Study Should women teach?

[Prison Chaplain]

I looked at some of the verses you quoted and they referred to married women. What about the single women? I am unmarried. I just recently stepped down from a position in my church in Biblical education. I would rotate with a male minister. He would teach four weeks and I would teach four weeks and we would break for two weeks and start over.

I had to step down because of other ministry obligations that I had before I became a member of that church. I am the volunteer chaplain at a women's prison, but even in that capacity I have to deal with men because it is a hospital unit and mean are also housed there on the hospital side.

I am a Prison Fellowship instructor and men come to help me with seminars and when I am teaching (which I consider ministry) they have to sit and listen to me before I break them into small groups and they are allowed to teach the offenders.

Actually I do have a congregation that is all female and I am very involved in ministry. I have preached sermons to men and woman and all say they were blessed and learned something.

 

[Free]

Vic,

Here is something I posted a while back in the Apologetics Forum regarding 1 Tim. 2:9-15:

"9 Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, 10 but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. 11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint."

Let's look at the context. This particular context isn't necessarily the biblical context, but rather the social context, the reason Paul wrote what he did.

As 1 Tim. 1:3 points out, Timothy is in Ephesus which is where the fertility goddess, Artemis, was worshipped. The priestesses who led her worship had the saving knowledge and only gave it to those who submitted to them. Men who served in the temple were castrated and made subject to the temple.

To ask for blessing on crops, livestock, and family, worshippers would place fine clothes, jewlery, and other costly gifts on the statue of Artemis. Women would also ask for help in conception, pregnancy, and delivery.

And this fits the passage better than anything I have ever heard. The Artemis cult was infiltrating the Church in Ephesus. Paul says woman was deceived first, lowering women's status to that of men and proving that they have no special divine insight that men don't have. Paul tells the women to dress modestly, not in the clothes of the Artemis cult.

Now teaching. The women were used to having the divine revelation and spiritual authority over men. Paul simply won't let women teach until they submit themselves to learning the Faith in silence. This is not a general statement that women can't ever teach, Paul is simply speaking to a very specific situation to put the women in their rightful place, as equals with men, and then they can teach.

To further support this view, 1 Tim. 2:15 is a very odd verse that really doesn't fit any other view. Women will be kept safe in childbearing by turning to Christ, not Artemis. Faith in Christ, not costly gifts for Artemis.

That is the most logical and reasonable explanation of that passage. It fits everything right down to verse 15.

 

[willow the wip]

It saddens my heart that we can accept women in so many positions - lawyers, doctors, judges, in politics and so forth but when it comes to the Word she has to sit by silently as though she is stupid except when it comes to teaching children. This debate will never end.

you see this has got nothing to do with the church.

The bible is talking about what gose on inside the church not out side.

a woman cannot be over the body of believers.

This is the position for a man, the bible dose not talk about women pastors.

Act 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; [namely], Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

you see this role was apointed to men, not women.

 

[Vic C.]

I looked at some of the verses you quoted and they referred to married women. What about the single women? I am unmarried.

:D The verses I qouted were the ones from your post. Since you said you didn't check them out, I put them up for all to read.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good going Free. We can have a much better conversation if we debate from the Bible.

 

[antitox]

Adding to what cuebedbee and prisonchaplain has said, when Paul said that what he does in the churches was his rule. There are other areas where he asserted when something was received from God and could not be disregarded, as I believe willowthewip posted. Paul had kept women silence in church; as I understand, women in those days frequently interrupted his preaching and Paul wanted that to stop. The women didn't understand some things he said which prompted this, so he told them to ask their husbands at home and stop interrupting him.
Secondly, the no-women-in-authority rule (Paul's own, as stated) was necessary, especially in the area (goddess worship) where he spread the gospel. Ultimately, women must remain under the headship of men's authority, this is without question a necessity. It has been shown to be a spiritual principle in the word. The issues dealt with back in that time required what Paul had to put into practice.
Galatans does say that there is no male or female in the body of Christ. If a woman is used by God in the ways stated on this thread, then it is because it is in His will. Does God endorse what he disapproves of? Absolutely not. The bottom line is that we follow the rule of headship and accountability as the word describes and not put women below men in regard due to a misunderstanding of Paul's intentions in his statements. Paul had alot to deal with and he had to have many people help him, some being women.(e.g. Phoebe, the deaconess)

 

[willow the wip]

Galatans does say that there is no male or female in the body of Christ. If a woman is used by God in the ways stated on this thread, then it is because it is in His will. Does God endorse what he disapproves of?

This is the very verse that is often missquoted.

this refares to the persons own salvation and not a lord ship issue.

 

[antitox]

Galatans does say that there is no male or female in the body of Christ. If a woman is used by God in the ways stated on this thread, then it is because it is in His will. Does God endorse what he disapproves of?

This is the very verse that is often missquoted.

this refares to the persons own salvation and not a lord ship issue.

This was referencing the entire Abrahamic covenant, not just salvation per se. We have all put on Christ, therefore distinguishing women from the ministry of spiritual gifts and the like would be wrong. If God anoints women, you'll have to take that argument with Him, and that was the gist of my original statement.

 

[Nikki]

Re: Should a Woman Teach?

Surely if she is teaching in a mixed congregation then the men present have no problem with it. When it comes to spiritual things I don't believe that God is looking at the flesh. He is looking at the spirit of the person.

My best friends mom has been preaching in her own "church" for about 3 months now. She had about 6 people attending at first. Now, there is nobody left except her daughter and grandson. That to me is saying that something is wrong.

I agree that women should spread the word, but I'm not sure how I feel about women being the head pastor (pastorette?). : Sorry, that just sounds funny.

I've just noticed that in churches where there are women preachers, there are usually only women in the congregation or nobody.

 

[evanman]

Single women should do as Paul Taught and follow the example of the married ladies.

 

[willow the wip]

This was referencing the entire Abrahamic covenant, not just salvation per se. We have all put on Christ, therefore distinguishing women from the ministry of spiritual gifts and the like would be wrong. If God anoints women, you'll have to take that argument with Him, and that was the gist of my original statement.

yes

still has nothing to do with women in the role of office concerning the church

you see as God is described as a he we worship the man not a Goddess deity .

THis is why God gave the role to men in office you see God did not say he sent his daughter.

Why did Jesus came as a male and not a female there is a reason.

 

[antitox]

Re: Should a Woman Teach?

My best friends mom has been preaching in her own "church" for about 3 months now. She had about 6 people attending at first. Now, there is nobody left except her daughter and grandson. That to me is saying that something is wrong.

I agree that women should spread the word, but I'm not sure how I feel about women being the head pastor (pastorette?). : Sorry, that just sounds funny.

I've just noticed that in churches where there are women preachers, there are usually only women in the congregation or nobody.

I tend to agree that women shouldn't be senior pastors over churches. My posts refer to ministering or preaching.

 

[Vic C.]

I agree that women should spread the word, but I'm not sure how I feel about women being the head pastor (pastorette?). Sorry, that just sounds funny.

LOL...I think Pastoress sounds almost as funny. :wink: :

 

[vpecc118]

1 Tim 2:8-15~

I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting;9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing,10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.
NKJV

There is a reason why, God doesn't just not let us cuz He's plain mean, it's a consquence of our sin. Context context context. Finish the passage before you make hasty judgements. That's my 2 cents.

 

[Chupacabra]

There is a reason why, God doesn't just not let us cuz He's plain mean, it's a consquence of our sin

You did not sin in the garden of Eden nor did any other female spare Eve. The logic of those verses is flawed-- Should we punish all males for war crimes because Hitler was a male? This passage denies the idea of individual responsibility and allows some people to be punished for others' actions. Is this just? If not, why would a perfect promote injustice?

 

[vpecc118]

Re: Should a Woman Teach?

It saddens my heart that we can accept women in so many positions - lawyers, doctors, judges, in politics and so forth but when it comes to the Word she has to sit by silently as though she is stupid except when it comes to teaching children. This debate will never end.

If the woman is leading people to Christ leave her alone. If she is teaching gospel truth and has been commissioned to go, leave her alone!

Paul doesn't say she can never say anything. Hello, I'm a chick. The church is for learning what the teacher has to say, not for people to imput their ideas for the rest of the group. This does not benefit anybody.

I don't know if you know this, but women have been proven to talk a lot more than men on average throughout the day. We have views on everything. The women in his day were no exception. They (as we) were to go home after the meeting & ask their husbands the stupid questions rather than look like idiots in front of everybody. That is his point.

Is she going to hell because she is teaching the Word of God? Surely if she is teaching in a mixed congregation then the men present have no problem with it. When it comes to spiritual things I don't believe that God is looking at the flesh. He is looking at the spirit of the person.

HUH? What? "I don't believe that God is looking at the flesh. He is looking at the spirit of the person." <-- What's that? That isn't an answer. Who cares what you think, or any group of people. God said something & He doesn't take it back because we think it's not that important to Him anymore.

What happens if the woman is not married and has been given permission to teach/preach by her pastor? We dont' think it's okay for a woman to preach because we consider it emotional but what about people who become emotional at sporting events?

"emotional"? What about biblical?

If a female says that God called her to bring His Word who are we to say He did not. We are so busy putting God in a box. The world is going to hell while we argue over who should bring the Word to the people.

Well, we can't disagree with the Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses then, or anybody else who says they've got permission from God. I mean really, "who are we to say He did not." Same logic, same fallicy.

 

[vpecc118]

There is a reason why, God doesn't just not let us cuz He's plain mean, it's a consquence of our sin

You did not sin in the garden of Eden nor did any other female spare Eve. The logic of those verses is flawed-- Should we punish all males for war crimes because Hitler was a male? This passage denies the idea of individual responsibility and allows some people to be punished for others' actions. Is this just? If not, why would a perfect promote injustice?

Dude, I didn't write it, God is the one who said so. If you think it's stupid, fine, just take it up with Him, not me.

 

[Free]

vpecc,

Perhaps you should read my post on page 1 regarding the passage in 1 Timothy 2.

 

[willow the wip]

I tend to agree that women shouldn't be senior pastors over churches. My posts refer to ministering or preaching.

Ahh now that is diffrent every one is called to preach and minister to unbelievers men and women.

people need to seperate the diffrences between the Body of Christ and the unbelivers.

God has order in his church.

you see unbelievers are not apart of the body of Christ.

 

[gimlisgrl]

I have tried to read all the responses to my original question and have heard some good points made. As for me, what do I think? Well I see nothing wrong with women teaching, I know some women who are more knowledgeable than most men. I do not agree with a women being a pastor, or elder; these are authority figures that are the head of a chruch and should remain men, I think this is what Paul was getting at.

 

[willow the wip]

so the bible is false if that was the case then you controdict .

in 1 Timothy 2:11-13 God’s word to us says, "Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence For Adam was first formed, then Eve."


Women teaching other women

Titus 2:3-5 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Mature Christian women are to disciple the younger woman teaching them to exercise self-control (be sober), to be affectionate to their own husbands, to be fond of their children, to be self-restrained in their passions and desires (discreet), modest and focused sexually only on her own husband (chaste), domestic, a stayer at home, upright in character (good), and obedient to her husband.

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Women rule over Children and not MEN

Is.3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them.

1 Cor.11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

1 Pet.3:1 "Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands."