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Bible Study Silence in Heaven?

RandyK

RandyK

Pentecostal
Member
Today, on another forum, someone asked the question:
"I have wondered about that when the seventh seal is opened and there’s silence in Heaven for half an hour, what could that possibly mean? What would be the reason for that? Is there any possible theory what that might be?"

I answered (only for your consideration):
"Oh, I'd love to hear the answers to this one? I've wondered this all my life! God has answered many of my questions. I'm not sure He's given me much on this one?

Off the top of my head I might say that the half hour is simply a pause. It means something momentous is about to happen.

The main problems I see with people interpreting Revelation is that they think the sequence of events listed is a literal schedule of events, like an exact choreography of events to happen in future history in exact order. I don't find that to be the case at all.

In my view, we must read it like quick sketches using known symbols to represent various facets of Christ's 2nd Coming. Instead of seeing succeeding visions as a chronology of events we should see them as a multiplicity of separate visions, each of which has its own chronological sequence and picture of events surrounding Christ's Coming.

The half hour in heaven is not a literal half hour perhaps? It may just be the vision's way of saying the curtains came down while the props are being shifted for the next scene, none of which have to express a particular order of events in the play.

Each scene may show something different, and several of the scenes may be talking about the same historical time period. There may be flashbacks or prolepsis (future events viewed as if they are happening now).

So in view of this, I see the half hour in heaven as being like the curtains coming down for a brief interlude--an intermission. It is not a real event, but only a prop indicating something about the event, namely an emphasis on the importance heaven holds for the upcoming events.

It is valuable as a prop, but not symbolizing an actual historical reality. It is God's way of saying, the coming of Christ is near and of critical importance to earth!

So we need to be flexible when reading the book of Revelation. The visions are designed to instruct us in watchfulness, alertneses, and attentiveness to moral/spiritual issues that concern the Church in the NT era, particularly as we approach final issues in our lives. Just as our individual lives have critical junctures that determine our eternal future so the earth will have critical junctures in which its history will be settled for all time.

Normally, I try to link passages like this to other precedents in other places in the Bible. I'm not sure where to look for this one? :)
 
 
Perhaps some things simply do not need to be said, and may perhaps be more telling by *not saying* what is actually being said *out loud" in other ways. For example, "Jesus wept" is stunning to most of us because it appears to give Jesus emotions reserved for weak humans like ourselves. And it makes us recognize that he identifies with us and feels things we thought he was incapable of feeling.

In regard to Job holding back his comments, or keeping silent in the face of God's rebuke, again we don't need a big commentary. We understand naturally that Job need not say anything when he is being tested. He need not pursue God's wisdom to be liberated from a trial that it was God's will he endure.

When "silence takes place in heaven," it is, I think, a pause for us to reflect upon the meaning of world history, to know that its time has come. It doesn't need to be said any more than this. We can't prevent it from happening. We can't make it happen. We can only watch and see the Salvation, and the Judgment, of the Lord.

My thoughts only....
 
Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

The reason there was silence in heaven for about a half hour was God was silent for a short time while the angels were preparing for the seventh seal to be opened and the giving of the seven trumpets given to them.
 
for_his_glory said:
Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

The reason there was silence in heaven for about a half hour was God was silent for a short time while the angels were preparing for the seventh seal to be opened and the giving of the seven trumpets given to them.
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good answer--
 
for_his_glory said:
Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

The reason there was silence in heaven for about a half hour was God was silent for a short time while the angels were preparing for the seventh seal to be opened and the giving of the seven trumpets given to them.
Click to expand...
It’s the calm before the storm.
 
LeviR said:
It’s the calm before the storm.
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Very true. Praying that all will finally have ears to hear and eyes to see that which is preached before them during this time of great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Mat 24:21
 
for_his_glory said:
Very true. Praying that all will finally have ears to hear and eyes to see that which is preached before them during this time of great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Mat 24:21
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Mat 24:31 - And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, andthey shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven tothe other.

Rev 7:1 - And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Rev 8:7 - The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, andthey were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grasswas burnt up.

The sounding of the first trumpet signals the four angels to let the four winds to blow upon the earth, the sea and the trees, after the 144,000 (His elect) out of the tribes of Israel have been sealed with their Fathers name on their foreheads.
 
LeviR said:
Mat 24:31 - And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, andthey shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven tothe other.

Rev 7:1 - And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Rev 8:7 - The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, andthey were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grasswas burnt up.

The sounding of the first trumpet signals the four angels to let the four winds blow upon the earth, the sea and the trees, after the 144,000 (His elect) out of the tribes of Israel have been sealed with their Fathers name on their foreheads.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure we can tie all of these events together--they appear to have in common the warning that God's Kingdom is coming to displace the "Kingdoms of this World." It will mean destruction and the departure of the wicked from this world to make room for a new global paradise.

I do think the "silence in heaven" is a kind of "background commentary," a kind of theatrical moment in the vision as if the entire thing is a play, symbolizing anticipation of this final conflict called Armageddon. Certainly, both the vision and the history it represents are real, nonetheless.

John is really seeing heaven keep silence as a display of how heaven will view the eventual history. But the history it represents has not happened yet and will transcend the dramatic presentation that anticipates it.

As such, I would separate the rhetoric tied to the visions from the rhetoric attached to the actual history they symbolize. Blowing 7 trumpets is rhetoric tied to the visions. What they represent is the actual history of this judgment.

We should focus less on each of the 7 trumpets, as if they are 7 separate events to take place in chronological sequence. We should focus less on their sequence and number, and more on the full picture of what they all represent together. Again, I think they are purely symbolic of a history that is being anticipated.

The "silence in heaven" is also purely a background "commentary," in my opinion, expressing heaven's anticipation of what will befall Mankind on earth. The focus is less on the literal period of "silence" in history than on the anticipated judgment to come.

The 4 angels temporarily hold back this coming judgment to prepare Israel for national Salvation, but it will still come. 4 angels may be part of the rhetoric and symbolism of the judgment, but in this case, they appear to be the actual agents when this history takes place, as well?

We have to know what is being used symbolically to portray what is coming, and what is actually the judgment to come. I find this somewhat difficult to determine.

For example, when I see "3 woes" listed consecutively, I'm not sure if the listing is purely given consecutively on behalf of a need to list things, or whether they are intended to give an actual chronological sequence in the history they represent?

Listing things does not always infer a chronological sequence, particularly when they are expressing something that has yet to happen in a kind of theatrical, symbolic presentation. So I prefer to resist over-literalizing the presentation of the vision, which I see as a kind of "symbolic play." It is intended to use symbolism to express things that cannot be fully revealed yet.

For this reason I avoid rendering Revelation chronological and seeing all of the events of the vision as anything more than representative of the actual history that is coming. Eventually, the curtains will be raised and we will see the actual history and what all of the history and rhetoric meant!
 
RandyK said:
I'm not sure we can tie all of these events together--they appear to have in common the warning that God's Kingdom is coming to displace the "Kingdoms of this World." It will mean destruction and the departure of the wicked from this world to make room for a new global paradise.

I do think the "silence in heaven" is a kind of "background commentary," a kind of theatrical moment in the vision as if the entire thing is a play, symbolizing anticipation of this final conflict called Armageddon. Certainly, both the vision and the history it represents are real, nonetheless.

John is really seeing heaven keep silence as a display of how heaven will view the eventual history. But the history it represents has not happened yet and will transcend the dramatic presentation that anticipates it.

As such, I would separate the rhetoric tied to the visions from the rhetoric attached to the actual history they symbolize. Blowing 7 trumpets is rhetoric tied to the visions. What they represent is the actual history of this judgment.

We should focus less on each of the 7 trumpets, as if they are 7 separate events to take place in chronological sequence. We should focus less on their sequence and number, and more on the full picture of what they all represent together. Again, I think they are purely symbolic of a history that is being anticipated.

The "silence in heaven" is also purely a background "commentary," in my opinion, expressing heaven's anticipation of what will befall Mankind on earth. The focus is less on the literal period of "silence" in history than on the anticipated judgment to come.

The 4 angels temporarily hold back this coming judgment to prepare Israel for national Salvation, but it will still come. 4 angels may be part of the rhetoric and symbolism of the judgment, but in this case, they appear to be the actual agents when this history takes place, as well?

We have to know what is being used symbolically to portray what is coming, and what is actually the judgment to come. I find this somewhat difficult to determine.

For example, when I see "3 woes" listed consecutively, I'm not sure if the listing is purely given consecutively on behalf of a need to list things, or whether they are intended to give an actual chronological sequence in the history they represent?

Listing things does not always infer a chronological sequence, particularly when they are expressing something that has yet to happen in a kind of theatrical, symbolic presentation. So I prefer to resist over-literalizing the presentation of the vision, which I see as a kind of "symbolic play." It is intended to use symbolism to express things that cannot be fully revealed yet.

For this reason I avoid rendering Revelation chronological and seeing all of the events of the vision as anything more than representative of the actual history that is coming. Eventually, the curtains will be raised and we will see the actual history and what all of the history and rhetoric meant!
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The four angels are the commanders of the four winds(armies) on the 4 corners of Israel’s earth.
The four winds are the 4 divisions (“notable ones”) shown by Daniel 8.
When the trumpet sounds, these winds begin to blow, or move across Israel.
It was informed that these armies should not attack until the 144,000 are sealed.
After they have been sealed, the armies attack the earth, sea and trees(the people of Israel).
 
LeviR said:
Mat 24:31 - And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, andthey shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven tothe other.

Rev 7:1 - And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Rev 8:7 - The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, andthey were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grasswas burnt up.

The sounding of the first trumpet signals the four angels to let the four winds to blow upon the earth, the sea and the trees, after the 144,000 (His elect) out of the tribes of Israel have been sealed with their Fathers name on their foreheads.
Click to expand...

Rev 7:1-4 John is given another vision after these things, meaning after the first six seals that are revealed to him. He now sees four angels standing on the four corners of the earth holding the four winds of the earth in order that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree until Gods servants were sealed.

These servants are the generational 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, except for the tribe of Dan and Ephraim as they fell to idol worship and allowed God to be removed from them, Judges 18:30; 1 Kings12:25-33; Hosea 5:9, 11;Psalms 78:9-17, 65-67. To keep it twelve tribes since Dan and Ephraim are not mentioned in vs. 4-8 the tribe of Joseph appears twice, once under his own name and once under the name of his son Issachar/Manasseh. Judah is mentioned first as Messiah was to come from the lineage of David.
 
LeviR said:
The four angels are the commanders of the four winds(armies) on the 4 corners of Israel’s earth.
The four winds are the 4 divisions (“notable ones”) shown by Daniel 8.
When the trumpet sounds, these winds begin to blow, or move across Israel.
It was informed that these armies should not attack until the 144,000 are sealed.
After they have been sealed, the armies attack the earth, sea and trees(the people of Israel).
Click to expand...
Reading Jeremiah 49:34-38 we read about the four winds in vs. 36 relating this to the four winds in Rev 7:1 as being that of North, South, East and West. As God is about to send judgement on Elam, He is also ready to send judgement on earth holding back until all who are His own to be sealed so that of the seven trumpets sounding that God's wrath (judgement) will not fall or hurt God's own.

One thing we need to remember is during the time of the seven trumpets sounding this will be on a global scale, not centrally located.
 
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RandyK said:
For example, when I see "3 woes" listed consecutively, I'm not sure if the listing is purely given consecutively on behalf of a need to list things, or whether they are intended to give an actual chronological sequence in the history they represent?
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Like the example you used here about the 3 woes, I have to take them in a chronological order as per what is written in the scriptures, as the first woe is over and now comes the second and then the third. I believe the seven trumpets sounding one after the other is also chronological, but not defining the actual time between the sounding of each one. The first six trumpets have a beginning and an ending, but the seventh has a beginning, but no actual ending like the first six.
 
for_his_glory said:
Reading Jeremiah 49:34-38 we read about the four winds in vs. 36 relating this to the four winds in Rev 7:1 as being that of North, South, East and West. As God is about to send judgement on Elam, He is also ready to send judgement on earth holding back until all who are His own to be sealed so that of the seven trumpets sounding that God's wrath (judgement) will not fall or hurt God's own.

One thing we need to remember is during the time of the seven trumpets sounding this will be on a global scale, not centrally located.
Click to expand...
The kingdoms or empires of Daniel’s image (Dan 7) shows that those empires are in existence when the stone strikes it.
I think it speaks of the areas in which those empires existed.
 
LeviR said:
The kingdoms or empires of Daniel’s image (Dan 7) shows that those empires are in existence when the stone strikes it.
I think it speaks of the areas in which those empires existed.
Click to expand...
The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire.
Seven remaining nations that still exist today:

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon. This Empire ran from 2000BC - 1759BC

Medo Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire. This Empire ran approximately from 536BC - 330BC

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.
This Empire ran from 753BC -27BC
 
for_his_glory said:
Like the example you used here about the 3 woes, I have to take them in a chronological order as per what is written in the scriptures, as the first woe is over and now comes the second and then the third. I believe the seven trumpets sounding one after the other is also chronological, but not defining the actual time between the sounding of each one. The first six trumpets have a beginning and an ending, but the seventh has a beginning, but no actual ending like the first six.
Click to expand...
Yes, if you understand me, there is a difference between the chronology and description of the visions as John saw them and how the history these visions represent will be ordered. The Revelation is, to me, a sort of dramatic representation, or "symbolic play," representing things ordered differently than the order in which John saw them.

If we are given a chronology of the "play," then it is just describing the symbols and the order they are given to John, and not the order of the history they actually represent. Do you see the difference?

John is told he sees one seal, trumpet, bowl, or woe after another, but this is just the order he is given to see the vision. I see no need to translate this into a chronological order between distinct events?

If an actual historical order is implied anywhere, then we can make that assumption. But without specific instructions, we cannot. They constitute a symbolic vision with less specificity than perhaps we would like?

We are given lists and scenes, but these are symbolic, at times, of the exact same historical period, and cannot represent a chronological order. So the order in which John is given these "scenes" is not significant with respect to establishing a necessary order of events in the history they represent.

Describing the order in which John was given to see them, then, was not for the purpose of establishing a chronological sequence or timing order. Establishing an exact chronology, at times, is beyond what God intends to do in prophecy.

It is not to give people advance warning to avoid judgment, but rather, to speak to people of faith. "It is not for you to know times and seasons....", Jesus said.

There certainly is a certain amount of "chronological ordering" provided for in the Revelation. That is explicitly specified. We do know the Antichrist will reign for 3.5 years. But do we know precisely when this period will start?

We know it will end when the 2 Witnesses are killed. But how long after the 3.5 years, when Antichrist's unchallenged power is diminished, until armies are mobilized to Armageddon? We don't know!

So ordered events in the Revelation are not necessarily to give advance warning as to the particular order of events to watch out for. Rather, we have listings of things, and we have numerous overlapping visions that all speak of the need to prepare for the coming Kingdom of Christ.

Much more than that and we're becoming prognosticators, like horoscope readers or people who consult palm-readers and crystal ball gazers. We are not being given the "enemy's plans," as if we are generals strategizing a particular military campaign! But we are being given the outcome and the keys to victory. Just my opinion....
 
for_his_glory said:
The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire.
Seven remaining nations that still exist today:

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon. This Empire ran from 2000BC - 1759BC

Medo Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire. This Empire ran approximately from 536BC - 330BC

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.
This Empire ran from 753BC -27BC
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The seven heads (Rev 17:9).

Rev 17:9 - And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Meshech, Tubal, Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, Gomer and Togarmah.

They are the 7 heads of Gog, or the Beast that comes out of the sea of nations.

Eze 38
 
I agree with Meshech, Tubal, Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, Gomer and Togarmah, but look where they are located even today



Gog and Magog.jpg
 
LeviR said:
The kingdoms or empires of Daniel’s image (Dan 7) shows that those empires are in existence when the stone strikes it.
I think it speaks of the areas in which those empires existed.
Click to expand...
I don't really know, but my thought is that World Civilization evolves, in this particular prophetic plan, into a combination Middle East/European Society. Today it may be looked at as a kind of union between Christian culture and Islamic culture.

The 1st two Beasts in Dan 7 represented what today is the Islamic Middle East, Iraq and Iran. The 2nd two Beasts represent what today is Europe, Christian Greece and Rome, the 2 main branches of Christendom.

I don't, however, think that these 4 Beasts bear any relationship to the 7 heads that comprise the Beast Empire. Antichrist, the Beast, emerges from the Beast Empire in European Civilization. That is Roman Civilization, the 4th Beast.

The 7 heads, by contrast, are 7 leaders among 10 major states in Europe. They are presented, symbolically, as a list of 7 successive kingdoms mentioned in the Bible, from ancient Egypt to the Antichristian Empire in Europe. But they are 7 literal leaders within 10 literal states in Europe, in my opinion.

This European/Middle East society, combining nominal Christianity and Islam, will survive the Fall of Antichrist, the Beast. But they will no longer have imperial power to impose either Antichristianity or Islam upon the world. That will be when Christ comes back, the "stone" that will strike the great image of Nebuchadnezzar.
 
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