Bible Study Silence in Heaven?

[RandyK]

Rev 1:19 - Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

John was to write the things which he had already been shown up to that point, and the things that are now shown to him, and the things he will yet be shown.

All of these things are yet future, and therefore called prophecy not history.
John is not shown things that happened before his time, but things to happen.

Yes, clearly, the only way prophecy could give actual history would be if it took place at the same time as the history it prophesied! This is clearly absurd! Thank you!

We might run into language problems describing this when a prophecy is said to foretell "history." Yes, it foretells history, but cannot produce actual history, unless it has somehow recorded what has yet to happen. ;)

I only wished to explain to the person asking me what I meant by using the word "history" with respect to interpreting the Revelation. The Revelation predicts history.

Inasmuch as it cannot give us a sneak peak, as if it is a recorded movie, that book uses all kinds of lingual means of expressing what is to happen, without divulging what only God knows will happen in any detail. And He has no wish to make us "gods!" ;)

 

[LeviR]

Yes, clearly, the only way prophecy could give actual history would be if it took place at the same time as the history it prophesied! This is clearly absurd! Thank you!

We might run into language problems describing this when a prophecy is said to foretell "history." Yes, it foretells history, but cannot produce actual history, unless it has somehow recorded what has yet to happen. ;)

I only wished to explain to the person asking me what I meant by using the word "history" with respect to interpreting the Revelation. The Revelation predicts history.

Inasmuch as it cannot give us a sneak peak, as if it is a recorded movie, that book uses all kinds of lingual means of expressing what is to happen, without divulging what only God knows will happen in any detail. And He has no wish to make us "gods!" ;)

Ok, I’m confused.

 

[RandyK]

Ok, I’m confused.

I was asked what I meant by using the word "history" with respect to the Revelation. I am differentiating between real time in the world, which I call "history," from descriptions of what has yet to happen. One is current history, and the other is a projection of what that history will be.

Revelation is a projection of what future history will be in the time surrounding the Coming of Christ. But in projecting what has yet to be it has to use symbolism or various descriptions that obviously fall short of a "preview" of the history itself. We cannot have a "preview" if the movie hasn't run yet!

 

[LeviR]

I was asked what I meant by using the word "history" with respect to the Revelation. I am differentiating between real time in the world, which I call "history," from descriptions of what has yet to happen. One is current history, and the other is a projection of what that history will be.

Revelation is a projection of what future history will be in the time surrounding the Coming of Christ. But in projecting what has yet to be it has to use symbolism or various descriptions that obviously fall short of a "preview" of the history itself. We cannot have a "preview" if the movie hasn't run yet!

Oh I see. Do you find it necessary to think of history that way?

Don’t know who said it but it was said that you can’t step into the same river twice. Think that refers to change though.

 

[RandyK]

Oh I see. Do you find it necessary to think of history that way?

That's how anybody would think of history, as actual real-time life--not as a projection of it. It depends upon the language, and what you mean to say? If you're talking about a representation of history, then obviously you're using the word in a different way.

 

[LeviR]

That's how anybody would think of history, as actual real-time life--not as a projection of it. It depends upon the language, and what you mean to say? If you're talking about a representation of history, then obviously you're using the word in a different way.

We could speak of the history of Jacob as things that are about to commence?

 

[RandyK]

We could speak of the history of Jacob as things that are about to commence?

Yes, I could say that the history of tomorrow begins tomorrow. Still, we're talking about "real time," and not purely a projection of it in symbolic language, or in the language of prophecy.

 

[for_his_glory]

I mean to differentiate what actually happens in our real world experience as opposed to diaramas or plays or dramatic symbols that represent what will happen. "History" is what we are actually experiencing in the world. A depiction of it, using symbols, is not the actual history but merely a representation of it using symbols.

The book of Revelation is not pre-playing history, but representing it in the form of symbolic or representative prophecy. Some prophecy gives greater detail of what will happen, but history takes place when it actually happens--not when it is foretold.

What is foretold in scripture in parts has become history to us as the visions John received in his days are now history, but yet that which will come in the latter days being yet future events that must come first before the return of Christ. The seven seals shows us the beginning of sorrows Jesus told us about in Matthew 24:3-8 as Satan comes conquering and to conquer.

The seven trumpets are also detailed in Matthew 24:9-31as being the beginning of God's mighty wrath being poured out into the earth as each trumpet sounded destroys the earth's resources as this torments those on earth that are not yet God's own. But, in whom God's long suffering and patience like that in the days of Noah 1Peter 3:20; 2Peter 3:9, hopefully all would turn back to Him before the door of God's salvation through Christ is closed when Christ returns as only God knows the numbering of His own.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is only my scenario of what will happen during the sounding of the seven trumpets.

When the son of perdition takes his literal seat in the holy place of Jerusalem Jesus warned us to flee as He has a place prepared for us wherever we go to, Matthew 24:15-21; Rev 12:14.

God's protection is absolute to those who escape into the wilderness and trust in Christ to help meet their needs. Just as God told Moses to strike the rock for fresh water, Exodus 17:1-7, and sending manna down from heaven and providing Quail for meat, Exodus 16, so will be the same in the end of days, Philippians 4:19.

Nut shell scenario of what will happen during the first six trumpets of Rev Chapter 8-11 that leads up to the seventh trumpet and the events of Chapter 13 with the beast out of the sea and out of the earth. Then in Rev 19 the marriage supper of the Lamb, those who will be caught up to Christ will happen when He returns with his army of angels and sends them out to gather us to Him in the air, Matthew 24:29-31.

God’s wrath is poured out into the world as chastisements for disobedience, but also a warning that man needs to repent and turn back to God before the door of salvation is closed forever when Christ returns on the last day, John 5:28-29; 6:40.

Hail and fire can be likened unto meteors that fall from the sky. A third of the trees and all the green grass are burned up which makes a third part of the world with a shortage of oxygen in the air that is created from the carbon dioxide from the trees and living plants. Seeing that this is Global the intense fire and smoke from all the trees and grass burning can travel for miles causing much more damage throughout the nations. The trees that produce various healthy foods for our wellbeing will become scarce. The green grasses that would probably include crops of wheat, barley, corn and so forth will be destroyed causing a shortage in food. The animals we depend on as a food source will also die as they are left without vegetation they need to live on.

This great mountain burning with fire could be another meteor or even a series of meteors sent down from heaven at one time, but on an extremely larger scale as the third part of the sea is destroyed along with sea life and the third part of the ships that sit in it. The third part of the sea turned to blood by reason of all the animal life that is killed and those men, women and children who are on these ships that are destroyed. Take into consideration the disease that would spread from all the rotted sea life that is rotting away washing up on the shore and the flesh of those who were burned along with the ships.

These ships will more than likely be types of fuel tankers, merchant, fishing and luxury cruises ships traveling the waters. With the third of these ships being destroyed means a third part of the world’s fuel and food supply would be destroyed. There is only one ocean, but divided by four regions as being the Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean, Arctic Ocean, and the Indian Ocean. This would be like the four corners of the earth as being North, South, East and West. The only difference between the ocean and the sea is that the ocean is much larger and feeds into the 108 seas around the world that also flow into our lakes and streams that provide us with fresh drinking water and other sources of food.

With the third part of the sun, moon and stars being darkened this will affect mans source of electricity and heat that is vital to keep a certain degree of the earth warm, and generated power in homes, hospitals and manufacturing plants including nuclear reactors.

Agriculture and navigation would be hard pressed as it takes the solar power from the sun to run the solar cells that produces the energy needed to run farming machinery and trucks to take the produce to manufacturing plants where the produce is then distributed to market.

Vehicles such as cars, ambulances, planes, trains and the list goes on need an energy source from the sun in order to run their engines. The darkness of the third part of the day would be roughly around eight hours of daylight being lost and total darkness of night as the moon and stars are illuminated by the sun at night. A flashlight would be useless to see in the dark as it needs energy from the sun to run the battery that turns the light on.

This much darkness would cause people to panic in the streets creating chaos as the love of many will wax cold, Matthew 24:12. Riots would break out causing looting and lose of life as those who have not will do anything in desperation to take from those who have much. IMO Marshal law will be enforced as we see history repeat itself with many Christians taken captive that did not flee and killed as they refuse to denounce Christ and take the mark. They will also die a martyr's death, Rev 6:9-11, especially vs. 11. Also we are not to fear what man can do to us, Matthew 10:28.

This is where the mark of the beast comes in during the seventh trumpet as this NWO is a Luciferian system of economics, political, military, educational and false religious power that gives power to the beast out of the earth being the son of perdition. By lying signs and wonders the beast will deceive the nations (people) into taking its mark. IMO I think the mark is the thoughts of our mind and the actions of our hands reaching out to this beast that promises peace, safety and provision as many will bow down and worship this beast who claims to be God.

After the 3 1/2 years of this Luciferian reign on earth that will try and wear out the saints then every eye will see Christ coming in the clouds with His army of angels that are then sent out to gather those saints who are alive at His coming and those who sleep in their graves. We are gathered up to the clouds as we receive our new glorified bodies in order to meet Jesus in the air. From the air He destroys the beast and false prophet by the brightness of His coming only speaking their destruction casting them into the lake of fire. Satan is bound for a time as Jesus sets out to destroy all the nations that followed after the beast. Satan is then released in a final attempt to destroy the saints as he sends his angels out to surround the camp of the saints, but the angels are consumed by fire and Satan cast into the lake of fire. Then comes God's great white throne judgment and the books are opened and all are judged. Then this present heaven and earth are burned up and made new again and the New Jerusalem is ushered down from heaven where we will be with the Lord forever.

 

[RandyK]

What is foretold in scripture in parts has become history to us as the visions John received in his days are now history, but yet that which will come in the latter days being yet future events that must come first before the return of Christ. The seven seals shows us the beginning of sorrows Jesus told us about in Matthew 24:3-8 as Satan comes conquering and to conquer.

The seven trumpets are also detailed in Matthew 24:9-31as being the beginning of God's mighty wrath being poured out into the earth as each trumpet sounded destroys the earth's resources as this torments those on earth that are not yet God's own. But, in whom God's long suffering and patience like that in the days of Noah 1Peter 3:20; 2Peter 3:9, hopefully all would turn back to Him before the door of God's salvation through Christ is closed when Christ returns as only God knows the numbering of His own.

Yes, I believe that it is already the "Last Days" in a sense, and judgment is already being poured out. It certainly was poured out on Jerusalem in 70 AD, and the "time of punishment" has continued to be upon the Jewish People. It is the Day of Salvation as well as a time when God continues to visit judgment upon those who reject His mercy and grace. As Christian nations turn against their faith, just as Israel did, they too will continue to experience various kinds of punishments. And the pagan world will not escape simply because they don't know the Gospel. All men are always being judged by God, even if He reserves the right to show mercy at times.

 

[RandyK]

This is only my scenario of what will happen during the sounding of the seven trumpets.

When the son of perdition takes his literal seat in the holy place of Jerusalem Jesus warned us to flee as He has a place prepared for us wherever we go to, Matthew 24:15-21; Rev 12:14.

I agree with the Preterists that Jesus, in the Olivet Discourse, was giving a prophecy largely for Israel, but addressing believers, or future "Christians." As a prophecy directed at the nation Israel the prophecy was largely focused on the punishment of Israel beginning in that generation and extending until the end of the age. Christ will come back to complete that judgment and to restore what remains.

I'm not, however, a Preterist. I only agree with them in this aspect. Antichrist will "take his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God." But this is not what I think Christ was speaking of during his Olivet Discourse.

God's protection is absolute to those who escape into the wilderness and trust in Christ to help meet their needs. Just as God told Moses to strike the rock for fresh water, Exodus 17:1-7, and sending manna down from heaven and providing Quail for meat, Exodus 16, so will be the same in the end of days, Philippians 4:19.

I think the worst of the time when Antichrist reigns will be only 3.5 years, and be centered in Europe. The whole world, of course, will love the "Beast." But his rule will, I think, be centered in the region of the old Roman Empire, which is Europe.

My wife is English, and I'm an American. We're not sure which country would be the best place to be. But this is premature...

Nut shell scenario of what will happen during the first six trumpets of Rev Chapter 8-11 that leads up to the seventh trumpet and the events of Chapter 13 with the beast out of the sea and out of the earth. Then in Rev 19 the marriage supper of the Lamb, those who will be caught up to Christ will happen when He returns with his army of angels and sends them out to gather us to Him in the air, Matthew 24:29-31.

I'm a Postribulationist.

God’s wrath is poured out into the world as chastisements for disobedience, but also a warning that man needs to repent and turn back to God before the door of salvation is closed forever when Christ returns on the last day, John 5:28-29; 6:40.

Antichristians will not repent, as we read in the book of Revelations. But God will judge only after they display their wickedness 1st.

I'm not sure you're wrong in your interpretation of the 7 Trumpets, and it sounds as if you're Premill, Postrib? It's intriguing to me to figure out what these things mean. Thanks for sharing!

 

[for_his_glory]

I agree with the Preterists that Jesus, in the Olivet Discourse, was giving a prophecy largely for Israel, but addressing believers, or future "Christians." As a prophecy directed at the nation Israel the prophecy was largely focused on the punishment of Israel beginning in that generation and extending until the end of the age. Christ will come back to complete that judgment and to restore what remains.

I'm not, however, a Preterist. I only agree with them in this aspect. Antichrist will "take his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God." But this is not what I think Christ was speaking of during his Olivet Discourse.

In the Olivet Discourse, Matthew 24:15 Jesus speaks about the abomination of desolation as He gives to Paul in 2Thessalonians 2:1-12 what this abomination/false prophet/ last antichrist will be that will reign for 3 1/2 years causing all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death.

One thing we have to remember is what Jesus spoke was in part for Israel as all the nations today were not yet developed in that era, so what Jesus speaks is for all Jew and Gentile throughout the whole world.

When Christ returns on the last day and makes an end to all that are an abomination to Him after we are caught up to Him, the present heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements, being the earth, shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are there in shall be burned up, 2Peter 3:9-18. Then as the first heaven and earth have passed away God will make a new heaven and earth in preparation for the New Jerusalem to be ushered down where we will be with the Lord forever, Rev 1:1-2.

I think the worst of the time when Antichrist reigns will be only 3.5 years, and be centered in Europe. The whole world, of course, will love the "Beast." But his rule will, I think, be centered in the region of the old Roman Empire, which is Europe.

My wife is English, and I'm an American. We're not sure which country would be the best place to be. But this is premature...

I believe the son of perdition will take his literal seat in Jerusalem as scripture says, but it will be like his headquarters with his minions placed in every nation on every continent as many will fall to his false pretense of peace and safety after all the destruction the first six trumpets of God's great wrath will bring about throughout the world.

I'm a Postribulationist.

If I were to label myself I am post tribulation and do not believe in a literal 1000 year reign of Christ here on earth.
IMO, I believe 1000 being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8.

Antichristians will not repent, as we read in the book of Revelations. But God will judge only after they display their wickedness 1st.

I'm not sure you're wrong in your interpretation of the 7 Trumpets, and it sounds as if you're Premill, Postrib? It's intriguing to me to figure out what these things mean. Thanks for sharing!

We can only hope and pray that during the sounding of the seven trumpets as the word of God continues to be preached that many will turn back to God, but only He knows the ones who will repent and come back to Him.

Even though we are way off the topic of your OP I have enjoyed our conversation. Revelations is my passion and have deeply studied this book of the Bible intensely for over 40 years so far I am still learning.

God bless you Randy and your hunger for knowledge.

 

[RandyK]

In the Olivet Discourse, Matthew 24:15 Jesus speaks about the abomination of desolation as He gives to Paul in 2Thessalonians 2:1-12 what this abomination/false prophet/ last antichrist will be that will reign for 3 1/2 years causing all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death.

My own position is that the AoD is from Dan 9.27, where I think it is talking about the Roman Army.

Dan 9.26 The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary... And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on it.”

One thing we have to remember is what Jesus spoke was in part for Israel as all the nations today were not yet developed in that era, so what Jesus speaks is for all Jew and Gentile throughout the whole world.

Though it is true we can all benefit from anything said in the Bible I find that in the Prophets certain prophecies were directed at specific nations. The Olivet Discourse, in my opinion, was a prophecy directed at Israel.

At that time Israel consisted of both believers and unbelievers, and so, the Address was directed to the family of faith, which would later include believers from other nations. So even though all Christians can benefit from what was taught there, it was an Address specifically given to believing Jews.

Peter's letters address Jewish believers, and issues that affected them also affect Christians from all nations and in all times. However, the Olivet Discourse was more of a prophecy directed at Israel's future, just as many Prophets in the OT Scriptures addressed the destiny of various nations, based on their performance in the sight of God.

I believe the son of perdition will take his literal seat in Jerusalem as scripture says, but it will be like his headquarters with his minions placed in every nation on every continent as many will fall to his false pretense of peace and safety after all the destruction the first six trumpets of God's great wrath will bring about throughout the world.

No doubt Antichrist will have followers everywhere, but I think some nations will ultimately rebel against his control. Certainly not all we see him as "God."

I'm in a discussion right now about whether Antichrist will take his seat in a literal temple, or whether this is just a figure of speech. When he assumes a heavenly seat he is declaring himself to be God. Don't know?

If I were to label myself I am post tribulation and do not believe in a literal 1000 year reign of Christ here on earth.
IMO, I believe 1000 being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8.

Yea, it's arguable. If I didn't think Israel would have to be restored as a nation I would likely agree with you. But I think Christ will come back to restore Israel. And there must, then, be a period of time for mortal humanity to come back to the Lord and fulfill promises made to Abraham that have yet to be completed. I guess we'll see?

Even though we are way off the topic of your OP I have enjoyed our conversation. Revelations is my passion and have deeply studied this book of the Bible intensely for over 40 years so far I am still learning.

Me too. I'm ever open to the Lord's help!

God bless you Randy and your hunger for knowledge.

Thank you so much! God bless you too!

 

[LeviR]

The 24 elders and 4 living creatures represent those of the rapture.
Agree?

 

[RandyK]

The 24 elders and 4 living creatures represent those of the rapture.
Agree?

No, that is the position often taken by Pretribulationists, who think that the Church is "raptured" before the "Tribulation," which is later detailed in the book. But my own position is that the 24 Elders and the 4 Living Creatures are cherubim, or unique angels.

The 24 Elders seem uniquely related to the priestly set up in the Davidic reign in the worship of God. Here in heaven, it is angels who worship God.

And the 4 cherubim seem related to the vision Ezekiel had of the "Glory of God," which were cherubim. The entire scene of God's throne showed that throne completely surrounded by angels--not people. The only human being seemingly present was Jesus, the "Lamb."

It is argued that "elders" cannot be angels because angels don't grow old. But I think in this case, the "elders" reflect aged wisdom in the form of experienced men of God. Angels sometimes took the form of men when visiting men.

 

[LeviR]

No, that is the position often taken by Pretribulationists, who think that the Church is "raptured" before the "Tribulation," which is later detailed in the book. But my own position is that the 24 Elders and the 4 Living Creatures are cherubim, or unique angels.

The 24 Elders seem uniquely related to the priestly set up in the Davidic reign in the worship of God. Here in heaven, it is angels who worship God.

And the 4 cherubim seem related to the vision Ezekiel had of the "Glory of God," which were cherubim. The entire scene of God's throne showed that throne completely surrounded by angels--not people. The only human being seemingly present was Jesus, the "Lamb."

It is argued that "elders" cannot be angels because angels don't grow old. But I think in this case, the "elders" reflect aged wisdom in the form of experienced men of God. Angels sometimes took the form of men when visiting men.

I suppose it’d be helpful if the cherubim were said to be angels but I can’t find any scripture that says so.
I believe they are symbolic of the resurrected and translated ones.
They were woven on the veil of the tabernacle which represents the entrance into heaven. And they surrounded the mercy seat in heaven.
24 and 4 also represent the encampment of the people around the tabernacle in the wilderness.
And the 4 symbolic banners of the 12 tribes grouped into 4 of 3 were lion, calf, man and eagle.

 

[LeviR]

The old tabernacle, the things therein, the instruments used, and the people themselves are patterns of the true which is in heaven, the kingdom of God.
When the door was opened in heaven, John saw these things in figure. The door is the veil that separates the holy from the most holy.
And Christ was the forerunner of those who were to follow him into heaven through the door.
They are also to judge the world with him, of which the opening of the seals represents.

 

[LeviR]

Eze 10:1 - And I looked, and there in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubim, there appeared something like a sapphire stone, having the appearance of the likeness of a throne.

This is similar to what John saw when he entered the door in heaven. Beyond the veil were the cherubim surrounding the mercy seat. And the throne of the Lord stood above.

Before entering the tabernacle, the people needed to wash. When they entered the first compartment they would see cherubim on the walls, and the instruments of service.
They would also see the veil to the most holy with woven cherubim on it.

Believers are said to be members in the kingdom of God when they are washed and then enter the first compartment.
They then actually enter into the kingdom when they pass through the veil which Christ as their forerunner has gone.
To pass this point, they must be resurrected or translated as Christ was.

Inside, they are again represented by the cherubim . And will judge the world with Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

My own position is that the AoD is from Dan 9.27, where I think it is talking about the Roman Army.

Dan 9.26 The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary... And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on it.”

The Bible never defines just one antichrist, especially as in the capital A of Antichrist that many try to teach, but says even now there are many and in the end of days will be the last time, 1 John 2:18. We have to remember that Satan is a created spirit and needs to work through others in order to build his literal kingdom here on earth as the war in heaven between Michael and Satan has not happened yet, Rev 12:7-12. This will be a Luciferian system of political, economic, environmental, military, educational and false religious power that founded in 1534 with its headquarters in Rome, Italy that will sit upon the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north which is Jerusalem on the same Temple mount of God where the Dome of the Rock is being refurbished for the son of perdition to take its seat. This power of the beast out of the sea gives power to the beast out of the earth who will control the government of every nation on every continent and even now works its iniquity in the world, Rev 13.

The beast that will rise up out of the sea, as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15, gives power to the beast that comes up out of the earth who is the last antichrist/ false prophet/son of perdition, 2Thessalonians 2:3-12.This beast is a Luciferian system comprised of economic, political, militant, environmental and false religious system. This beast system that Satan works through gives its power to the beast out of the earth as the beast out of the earth appears as the Lamb of God, but is a false Christ being the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 His works are the abomination that causes desolation that Jesus forewarned us of in Matthew 24:15 and Daniel who explained this last of the seven remaining nations that make up the four Empires beginning with Babylon that still exist today as mystery Babylon and has always persecuted God's people from the time of Babylon up to present day unto the end of days, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Matthew 24:15; Revelation 13; Revelation 17:15. This will be the time of the greatest falling away from truth as this last antichrist, through lying signs and wonders, will promise peace and safety and then sudden destruction comes upon them who bow down and takes the mark of this beast, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-6.

Jesus said those who will endure in the faith of Christ unto the end the same shall be saved, Matthew 24:13. Satan said, I will ascend into heaven; I will exalt my throne above the stars of God (other ruling powers) I will sit also upon the Mount of the Congregation in the sides of the north (Jerusalem). I will ascend above the clouds, I will be like the Most High, Isaiah 14:12-15. The last antichrist, (as there have been many and even now are in the world), is the son of perdition being the false prophet that Satan works through as he will sit on the sides of the North declaring himself as being God and will cause many to bow down to him and take his mark as many will believe the lying signs and wonders he will show, Rev 13. Again, nowhere in scripture does it capitalize antichrist, but mans misinterpretations capitalize it and makes it one Antichrist that we are to watch for before Christ returns.

 

[for_his_glory]

The 24 elders and 4 living creatures represent those of the rapture.
Agree?

TWENTY-FOUR ELDERS

The background is found in 1 Chronicles 24:7-19; 25:6-31; and 26:12-19. In chapter 24, the Levitical priesthood is divided into 24 divisions, according to the schedule of their service: they were officials of the sanctuary and of the house of God. In Chapter 25, the Levitical priests are further divided into 24 divisions, responsible for the worship of the sanctuary, and in particular the music of that worship. In Chapter 26, the Levitical priests are again divided into 24 gatekeepers for the house of God.

They were responsible for worship, in particular for the music in worship. They were also to stand as the gatekeepers of the house of God. As it was with the twenty-four divisions of the priests in the book of Chronicles, so it is with the twenty-four elders in the book of Revelation. They are responsible for worship, in particular for the music in worship; they also stand as the gatekeepers of the house of God.

The twenty-four elders, then, are elders in the heavenly sanctuary of God who are responsible for worship, for the music of worship, and as such they stand as the gatekeepers of the house of God.

We have identified the twenty-four elders that surround the throne as elders, but what is the significance of those elders around the throne? Why are they there? The answer is that the twenty-four elders of Revelation 4:4; 5:6; 19:4 are symbolic of the ruling authority in the church. There is a correspondence between the twenty-four elders above and the office of elder below. This means that the government of the church is patterned after heaven itself. As there are elders in heaven above, so there are elders on earth below.

The seven Spirits are wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, power and fear (respect) of the Lord. The four beasts represent that of the four Gospels being taught in the governing Church here on Earth that is patterned after heaven.

Rev 14:1-5 the 144,000 should not be taken literally. It’s 12 x 12 x 1000. The 12 being the number of completion for God’s people representing the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles and 1000 being a generic number suggesting a great multitude. So 144,000 is a way of saying all of God’s people under the old and new covenant. Virgins are we, the saints of God who have held onto truth. The army that Rev 19:14 speaks of that return with Jesus as he plants his feet on the Mt of Olives to fight the final battle are the angels and we, the saints of God, who were caught up to meet Jesus in the air and return with him, Rev 17:14; Matt 16:27; Jude 1:15, 16; Rev 19:19: Rev 3:4,5; Rev 7:13-15.