Sinful awful people by the WORLD's standard. Where do you fit?

[Grazer]

The below 2 videos I've found very helpful. Admittedly one is long but they articulate the points far better than I can:

[video=youtube;M4jlWXhKIaE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4jlWXhKIaE[/video]

[video=youtube;0zI_RNE5smw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zI_RNE5smw[/video]

Professor John Gray is mentioned a lot. Below are some of the things he's come out with:

Mankind should recognize that we are not separate from animals in any way, we are animals, destructive animals, driven by instinct, reproductive urges and the need to survive

Individuals are not the most important factor of humanity, or at least, our individualism is as much an illusion as our conscious control, because both rest on a false pretense that we are conscious, intelligent, different from animals and separate from one another. Western philosophy, ethics, morals and religion seek to erase that point completely, and to emphasize our individuality and our ‘rationality’ and ‘will’ versus instinctual, mechanical animals, despite the fact that we are not different from them. Additionally, morality is a construct that excuses our fears and helps our vanity; morality does not exist because, at heart, we are animals, clever yes, organised yes, but our morality does not just come in from the cold, it is a veil we put over ourselves willingly to hide the truth

Christianity created the idea of purpose or meaning in life, deeper then just survival, and of ‘saving’ humanity, both ideas being wrong and foolish, because we are animals after all: we seek to escape from death through this creation of purpose and meaning, because the West is the civilization most afraid of death and the end, because of our conception of linear time and failure to include ourselves as part of nature. We are fixated on what ought to be, rather then what is, and so try and redeem, save or adjust the world: this is the ideological project of science, this is the project of Marxism, this is the project of liberal capitalism, and it is stupid. because, again, there is nothing to save. There is no such thing as progress, that is, of things getting better: science and technology may improve, but the human animal will not; purpose does not exist independent of human construction, history and civilizations have no grand plan, no superior march towards glorious progress, nor can that purpose be a moral redemption of mankind

Atheists say they want a secular world, but a world defined by the absence of the Christians' god is still a Christian world. Secularism is like chastity, a condition defined by what it denies

 

[AirDancer]

Alex, You should really post some of this good stuff on the pther forum.

Speaking of, I disagree with the statement that none of them are right.

I can make a judgement on who is right and who is wrong based off of my moral code, but that is, like I argue, subjective thinking.

More or less, the way you precieve the world dictates what morals you may or may not have, its all based on perspective.

Search up Genetic Altruism if you want to know where the basis of human morality comes from, and then try to think of why selfless acts, such as self sacrifice, would be able to fit into an evolutionary way of figuring out problems.

I don't think eating veal is a immoral thing, seeing as we were evolved to try our hardest to survive, and we were evolved to hunt, gather, scavenge for anything, even meat. I do, However oppose the mass ill treatment of animals.

For some, morality is a matter of perspective.

For Christians, moral discernment is confirmed via the Holy Spirit once we've received our Lord into our lives. As we grow stronger & more mature in our walks, discernment is finely tuned, just as we are. A 'moral' Christian is one who has taken to heart the words of Scripture and is trying to walk as close to those words as possible. (Are any of us perfect? Nope...not quite.)

We do, however, know the power behind the written word of Scripture ...how it can strongly & postively influence beyond the immediate sphere A word shared here can become food for thought for another elsewhere. That is why limitations are not put on the power of our Lord....and I wouldn't have it any other way!

 

[Atothetheist]

For some, morality is a matter of perspective.

For Christians, moral discernment is confirmed via the Holy Spirit once we've received our Lord into our lives. As we grow stronger & more mature in our walks, discernment is finely tuned, just as we are. A 'moral' Christian is one who has taken to heart the words of Scripture and is trying to walk as close to those words as possible. (Are any of us perfect? Nope...not quite.)

We do, however, know the power behind the written word of Scripture ...how it can strongly & postively influence beyond the immediate sphere A word shared here can become food for thought for another elsewhere. That is why limitations are not put on the power of our Lord....and I wouldn't have it any other way!

I suppose you want to know what I mean by the bolded words:

I invited Alex to another forum, and I was telling him to post his ideas on morality, and the biological ties to it on the other forum. His ideas are rather awesome.

I am sorry, we are not finely tuned.

We have wisdom teeth and an appendix, none of which we need to survive.

If we take out the appendix, we would be perectky fine.

It served a function long ago, but now it is as useless as hipbones on whales.