Sinless to be saved

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jarde

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If you want to be saved, you must keep the law of God which is defined in the 66 books of the Bible.
Keeping the law of God means thinking, speaking and acting as God wants you to.
I am speaking about the moral law, not about the ceremonial law.
The moral law: Do not worship idols, do not steal, do not murder, do not wear women's clothes, do not commit fornication, do not eat blood, and many more.
The ceremonial law was fulfilled by Jesus, therefore no one should obey the ceremonial law. If someone still wants to keep the ceremonial law, he has fallen from grace (Gal 5:4).

Faith means keeping the law,
loving God means following the commandments,
being a Christian means to imitate Jesus.

Matthew 19:16-17, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Matthew 5:18-20, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments."
1 John 3:6, "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
Romans 6:1-2, "How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"

And yes, it's possible to keep the law of God, for Deuteronomy 30:11 says: "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach."
And yes, there were people who were perfect, for Job 1:1 says: "and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."
And why was Abraham chosen, why did God love Abraham? Genesis 26:5 says: "Because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."
 
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If you want to be saved, you must keep the law of God which is defined in the 66 books of the Bible.
Keeping the law of God means thinking, speaking and acting as God wants you to.
I am speaking about the moral law, not about the ceremonial law.
The moral law: Do not worship idols, do not steal, do not murder, do not wear women's clothes, do not commit fornication, do not eat blood, and many more.
The ceremonial law was fulfilled by Jesus, therefore no one should obey the ceremonial law. If someone still wants to keep the ceremonial law, he has fallen from grace (Gal 5:4).

Faith means keeping the law,
loving God means following the commandments,
being a Christian means to imitate Jesus.

Matthew 19:16-17, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Matthew 5:18-20, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments."
1 John 3:6, "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
Romans 6:1-2, "How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"

And yes, it's possible to keep the law of God, for Deuteronomy 30:11 says: "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach."
And yes, there were people who were perfect, for Job 1:1 says: "and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."
And why was Abraham chosen, why did God love Abraham? Genesis 26:5 says: "Because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."
I agree with this. Just want to touch on the moral laws that still exist until the coming of Christ.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.

We need to present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow the light of Christ shine in us and through us. This is a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

Morality in God is His greatest commandment of love as we treat others as we want others to treat us. God is love and wants us to love and treat others as He loves and treats us.

Matthew 22:
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
 
If you want to be saved, you must keep the law of God which is defined in the 66 books of the Bible.
Keeping the law of God means thinking, speaking and acting as God wants you to.
I am speaking about the moral law, not about the ceremonial law.
The moral law: Do not worship idols, do not steal, do not murder, do not wear women's clothes, do not commit fornication, do not eat blood, and many more.
The ceremonial law was fulfilled by Jesus, therefore no one should obey the ceremonial law. If someone still wants to keep the ceremonial law, he has fallen from grace (Gal 5:4).

Faith means keeping the law,
loving God means following the commandments,
being a Christian means to imitate Jesus.

Matthew 19:16-17, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Matthew 5:18-20, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments."
1 John 3:6, "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
Romans 6:1-2, "How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"

And yes, it's possible to keep the law of God, for Deuteronomy 30:11 says: "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach."
And yes, there were people who were perfect, for Job 1:1 says: "and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."
And why was Abraham chosen, why did God love Abraham? Genesis 26:5 says: "Because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."
We have to be a bit more careful. We do not obey to be saved. If a person is justified, if they have repented and put their faith in Jesus, obedience to him is evidence of salvation. A saved person will automatically want to obey and will obey, albeit imperfectly, and that obedience will bring about sanctification.
 
If you want to be saved, you must keep the law of God which is defined in the 66 books of the Bible.

This isn't what God's word says.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

2 Timothy 1:9
9 Who has saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Galatians 3:1-3
1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 3:20-22
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe...


Keeping the law of God means thinking, speaking and acting as God wants you to.
I am speaking about the moral law, not about the ceremonial law.
The moral law: Do not worship idols, do not steal, do not murder, do not wear women's clothes, do not commit fornication, do not eat blood, and many more.
The ceremonial law was fulfilled by Jesus, therefore no one should obey the ceremonial law. If someone still wants to keep the ceremonial law, he has fallen from grace (Gal 5:4).

No, the Mosaic Law encompassed ceremonial laws, laws of separation and moral laws. The first two types of law are dissolved under the New Covenant, as the books of Galatians, Romans and Hebrews make abundantly clear. Only the Moral Law remains for the Christian to fulfill.

You've mixed laws of separation with moral laws in the quotation above, however. No Christian ought ever to commit murder but there is nothing immoral about a man not wearing a beard, or having a tattoo, or not being circumcised, or wearing mixed fabrics. These laws given solely to OT Israel were to remind them in every domain of their lives of their "set apart" status as God's Chosen People, and to make this evident also to surrounding pagan nations. No one except the Israelites have ever been under obligation to adhere to these laws of separation, however. And under the New Covenant, the Jews, too, are now liberated from the constraints of the Old Covenant laws of separation. This, the apostle Paul makes very clear in his letter to the Christians in the province of Galatia, who were being pressured by Judaizers to conform to the separation law of circumcision.

Galatians 5:1-6
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.
3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.
4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.


Faith means keeping the law,
loving God means following the commandments,
being a Christian means to imitate Jesus.

No, "faith" means "a settled confidence in something."

Loving God means desiring Him with all of one's being (Matthew 22:36-38; Psalms 42:2; Psalm 63:1). Out of this positive, whole-being desire for God arises obedience. If our obedience does not arise from love - desire - for God, it is entirely useless spiritually. See: 1 Corinthians 13:1-3.

Being a Christian means to be a vessel in whom, and through whom, the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9; Philippians 1:19), manifests himself. See: 1 Corinthians 3:16; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20; 2 Timothy 2:21; 2 Corinthians 4:7-11; Galatians 5:22-23; 2 Corinthians 3:18.


Matthew 19:16-17, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."

When did Jesus say this, and to whom? Had he died on the cross yet, in doing so making a new way to be reconciled to God? No. Was he speaking to a Gentile or a Jew? A Jew - one who had been careful to keep the moral laws Jesus cited "from his youth." And so, Jesus's remarks to the rich young ruler were within a pre-Calvary, Old Covenant context, communicating nothing of how lost sinners would "enter life" once Jesus had become the once-for-all propitiation for their sins (1 John 4:10; Hebrews 10:10; Hebrews 10:19-20; 1 John 5:11-12; John 14:6). For the born-again believer, then, Jesus's words to the rich young ruler have no salvific pertinency.

Matthew 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

This, too, was said to Jews within an Old Covenant context. Nothing of what Christ would do through his atonement for sin at Calvary, nothing of spiritual regeneration, nothing of being a temple of the Holy Spirit was said by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount. He spoke only to those under the Old Covenant of a standard they had never, and could never, meet: divine perfection. For the born-again believer, then, Jesus's sermon holds no practical, how-to-walk-with-God value.

Matthew 5:18-20, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Again, this is Jesus establishing a standard for entrance into God's kingdom that had never, and could never, be reached by law-keeping. It is because this standard was unattainable that he came to make a "new and living way" through himself, through his atoning work on the cross as the Lamb of God (John 1:29), by which all people could enter God's family and kindgom. Christ's words in the verse above, then, aren't applicable to born-again believers.

John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments."

This isn't instruction on what loving God is, but on how that love is properly expressed. It is a remark on the effect of love, not on love of God itself. The kind of love God wants from us is His own perfect agape love which is "shed abroad in our hearts" in the Person of the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5; Galatians 5:22). As the love of the Spirit fills the believer, they naturally and joyfully keep God's commandments. But keeping God's commands is the effect of the love of the Spirit within the Christian person, it isn't love for God itself, which is why Jesus said "IF you love me... ." Keeping God's commands is conditioned on a pre-existing and obedience-producing love - whole-being desire - for God.

1 John 3:6, "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."

This isn't the way a person in saved; it is merely an indicator of being saved.

Romans 6:1-2, "How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"

Said to born-again believers who were, obviously, still living in sin. By using "we," Paul unites his readers with himself in being, together, those who have died to sin.
 
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If you want to be saved, you must keep the law of God which is defined in the 66 books of the Bible.
Keeping the law of God means thinking, speaking and acting as God wants you to.
I am speaking about the moral law, not about the ceremonial law.
The moral law: Do not worship idols, do not steal, do not murder, do not wear women's clothes, do not commit fornication, do not eat blood, and many more.
The ceremonial law was fulfilled by Jesus, therefore no one should obey the ceremonial law. If someone still wants to keep the ceremonial law, he has fallen from grace (Gal 5:4).

Faith means keeping the law,
loving God means following the commandments,
being a Christian means to imitate Jesus.

Matthew 19:16-17, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Matthew 5:18-20, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments."
1 John 3:6, "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
Romans 6:1-2, "How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"

And yes, it's possible to keep the law of God, for Deuteronomy 30:11 says: "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach."
And yes, there were people who were perfect, for Job 1:1 says: "and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."
And why was Abraham chosen, why did God love Abraham? Genesis 26:5 says: "Because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."
73 books of the bible!
 
If you want to be saved, you must keep the law of God which is defined in the 66 books of the Bible.
Keeping the law of God means thinking, speaking and acting as God wants you to.
I am speaking about the moral law, not about the ceremonial law.
The moral law: Do not worship idols, do not steal, do not murder, do not wear women's clothes, do not commit fornication, do not eat blood, and many more.
The ceremonial law was fulfilled by Jesus, therefore no one should obey the ceremonial law. If someone still wants to keep the ceremonial law, he has fallen from grace (Gal 5:4).

Faith means keeping the law,
loving God means following the commandments,
being a Christian means to imitate Jesus.

Matthew 19:16-17, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Matthew 5:18-20, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments."
1 John 3:6, "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
Romans 6:1-2, "How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"

And yes, it's possible to keep the law of God, for Deuteronomy 30:11 says: "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach."
And yes, there were people who were perfect, for Job 1:1 says: "and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."
And why was Abraham chosen, why did God love Abraham? Genesis 26:5 says: "Because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."
Ez 36:25-27
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Amen!
 
And yes, it's possible to keep the law of God, for Deuteronomy 30:11 says: "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach."

Here is the verse in its immediate context:

Deuteronomy 30:11-14
11 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’
14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.


The emphasis in this passage is clearly on the accessibility of the law of God. It had been given to Israel from God, by Moses, and clearly laid out what God's law was for His Chosen People. So, then, they could not pretend they did not know what God's law was, or that it had yet to be properly revealed to them. When, then, Moses said to Israel, "it is not too hard for you," he meant, "you have no excuse not to keep it since it has been plainly declared to you." But even though this was true, even though Israel had been given the Law of God, they DID NOT keep it but many times departed from God and to such an extent that He cast His Chosen People into cruel bondage to other nations as punishment for their sin.

And it is because the Law of God could not be kept perfectly that God sent His Son to make a "new and living way" by which sinners could be reconciled to God - a way that did not depend upon their capacity to be perfect.

And yes, there were people who were perfect, for Job 1:1 says: "and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."

But the Book of Job ends with God demonstrating to Job that Job was NOT perfect. And Job openly admits to this.

Job 40:1-8
1 And the LORD said to Job:
2 “Shall a faultfinder contend with the Almighty? He who argues with God, let him answer it.”
3 Then Job answered the LORD and said:
4 “Behold, I am of small account; what shall I answer you? I lay my hand on my mouth.
5 I have spoken once, and I will not answer; twice, but I will proceed no further.”
6 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:
7 “Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me.
8 Will you even put me in the wrong? Will you condemn me that you may be in the right?

Job 42:1-6
1 Then Job answered the LORD and said:
2 “I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
3 ‘Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?’ Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.
4 ‘Hear, and I will speak; I will question you, and you make it known to me.’
5 I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you;
6 therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes.”


And why was Abraham chosen, why did God love Abraham? Genesis 26:5 says: "Because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."

Genesis 26:4-5
4 I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to your offspring all these lands. And in your offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed,
5 because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”


God is speaking to Isaac here, and explaining why He would fulfill His promise to Isaac's father, Abraham. God was NOT describing the basis upon which He chose Abraham in the first place, and loved him. God loves us because it is His nature to love, not because we have acted to deserve His love.

Titus 3:3-7
3 For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another.
4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


Ephesians 2:1-5
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—


The idea that by law-keeping a person can achieve their salvation is deeply blasphemous, denying the plain declaration of God's word.
 
The idea that by law-keeping a person can achieve their salvation is deeply blasphemous, denying the plain declaration of God's word.
Matthew 19:16-17, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 5:18-20, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
James 2:26, "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead."
 
Matthew 19:16-17, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 5:18-20, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
James 2:26, "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead."

See my last post to you. These verses all suffer from the same mishandling you've given to your earlier proof-texts.
 
Matthew 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
How does that address what I posted? Is Jesus saying we can be perfect or is he commanding us to be perfect? If the latter, does it follow that we can be perfect in this life?

What I has stated was: We do not obey to be saved. If a person is justified, if they have repented and put their faith in Jesus, obedience to him is evidence of salvation. A saved person will automatically want to obey and will obey, albeit imperfectly, and that obedience will bring about sanctification.

Do you agree with those statements?

Rom 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. (ESV)

Do you agree with Paul here? What about what follows that:

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. (ESV)

Numerous passages repeat that same message. No one was ever nor will ever, in this life, be able to perfectly keep the law, which is why we needed a Saviour to come and redeem us. Don't you think it is rather impossible to obey perfectly when we don't even have perfect knowledge (1 Cor. 13:12)? Paul even had to rebuke Peter for sinning and undermining the gospel (Gal. 2:11-21).

We obey Jesus because we are saved (justified), but that obedience isn't the basis of our justification. Paul says that anyone who teaches that works justify us is to be considered accursed (Gal. 1:6-9). The entire book of Galatians is a refutation of such an idea.
 
How does that address what I posted? Is Jesus saying we can be perfect or is he commanding us to be perfect? If the latter, does it follow that we can be perfect in this life?

What I has stated was: We do not obey to be saved. If a person is justified, if they have repented and put their faith in Jesus, obedience to him is evidence of salvation. A saved person will automatically want to obey and will obey, albeit imperfectly, and that obedience will bring about sanctification.

Do you agree with those statements?

Rom 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. (ESV)

Do you agree with Paul here? What about what follows that:

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. (ESV)

Numerous passages repeat that same message. No one was ever nor will ever, in this life, be able to perfectly keep the law, which is why we needed a Saviour to come and redeem us. Don't you think it is rather impossible to obey perfectly when we don't even have perfect knowledge (1 Cor. 13:12)? Paul even had to rebuke Peter for sinning and undermining the gospel (Gal. 2:11-21).

We obey Jesus because we are saved (justified), but that obedience isn't the basis of our justification. Paul says that anyone who teaches that works justify us is to be considered accursed (Gal. 1:6-9). The entire book of Galatians is a refutation of such an idea.
It should be clear to you then, based on your POV, that those who do commit sin, are not saved.
I agree with you.
 
How does that address what I posted? Is Jesus saying we can be perfect or is he commanding us to be perfect? If the latter, does it follow that we can be perfect in this life?

What I has stated was: We do not obey to be saved. If a person is justified, if they have repented and put their faith in Jesus, obedience to him is evidence of salvation. A saved person will automatically want to obey and will obey, albeit imperfectly, and that obedience will bring about sanctification.

Do you agree with those statements?

Rom 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. (ESV)

Do you agree with Paul here? What about what follows that:

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. (ESV)

Numerous passages repeat that same message. No one was ever nor will ever, in this life, be able to perfectly keep the law, which is why we needed a Saviour to come and redeem us. Don't you think it is rather impossible to obey perfectly when we don't even have perfect knowledge (1 Cor. 13:12)? Paul even had to rebuke Peter for sinning and undermining the gospel (Gal. 2:11-21).

We obey Jesus because we are saved (justified), but that obedience isn't the basis of our justification. Paul says that anyone who teaches that works justify us is to be considered accursed (Gal. 1:6-9). The entire book of Galatians is a refutation of such an idea.
Matthew 19:16-17, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
1 John 3:6, "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
 
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It should be clear to you then, based on your POV, that those who do commit sin, are not saved.
Sinless perfectionism is heresy. And I am very careful in when I use that word. Christians still struggle with sin, as is clearly shown throughout the NT, but we grow in holiness over time as we are obedient to Christ.

I agree with you.
No, you don't.
 
Matthew 19:16-17, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
1 John 3:6, "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
You do realize that merely posting verses is often not helpful, yes? In this case, it's proof-texting and pitting Scripture against Scripture, and not actually dealing with anything I've written.

There is a whole thread dedicated to 1 John 3:6 if you want to deal with what it actually says.
 
You do realize that merely posting verses is often not helpful, yes? In this case, it's proof-texting and pitting Scripture against Scripture, and not actually dealing with anything I've written.

There is a whole thread dedicated to 1 John 3:6 if you want to deal with what it actually says.
James 2:26, "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead."