Sinless to be saved

[electedbyHim]

I consider that a false doctrine.
Men are sanctified by the application of Christ's atoning, redeeming, consecrating, sanctifying blood.
That all happens at water baptism into His death.

We should ask your family and friends if you are sinless.

There is no need for witnesses of your sinlessness, because the Lord's written word teaches the opposite of your heretical beliefs.

I can only pray that the Lord takes out your heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh.

 

[JLB]

Jesus spoke to unregenerated Jews.
Not to those reborn from His Father's seed.

Jesus taught His disciples who were saved because the gave heed to His Gospel and were following Him.


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


Jesus taught them and commissioned them to teach all nations what He taught them and to make disciples.


And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matthew 28:18-20

• teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;

Here is what Jesus taught His disciples about forgiving sins.

• Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:15-17


This is called the doctrine of Christ. If you choose to change the doctrine of Christ then you take that up with the LORD on that Day.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2 John 9


Calling the doctrine of Christ about forgiveness the law of Moses is basically blasphemy.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Repenting is how we are forgiven our past sins.

That is not what Peter and Ananias said.
Peter said..."Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins," (Acts 2:38)
Ananias said..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16)

The sins we do as we are learning how as spiritual babes to walk according to the Spirit is a part of every believers life, and confessing our sins and or faults is how we are forgiven and cleansed to continue walking in the light.

Your version of the reborn is lacking.
God's seed will never bring forth the fruit of the devil.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

• Notice that the blood of Jesus cleanses those who walk in the light from all sin.

Being cleansed of past sin is step two of walking in God.
Turning from sin, is step one.
More sin manifests a new need for cleansing, and a false repentance from sin.
Only those walking in darkness commit sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:7-8

Those walking in darkness cannot say they have no sin.
Neither can they say that they know God, or that they have fellowship with Him.
Those walking in God cannot commit sin.

People like yourself, who claim they have no sin are self deceived. You will certainly be in for the shock of your life when you die and realize all you had to do is confess your sins to be forgiven.

People like myself are walking in God, in Whom is no darkness.

I hope you repent of spreading the heresy of the false sinless perfection doctrine.

According to your doctrine I will just go out and sin some more; so what is the point of any repentance ?

 

[JLB]

I consider that a false doctrine.
Men are sanctified by the application of Christ's atoning, redeeming, consecrating, sanctifying blood.
That all happens at water baptism into His death.

No sir.

It happens when you repent, and confess Jesus as Lord.

You are saved and forgiven your sins, which has nothing to do with water baptism.

But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20

 

[Hopeful 2]

We should ask your family and friends if you are sinless.
There is no need for witnesses of your sinlessness, because the Lord's written word teaches the opposite of your heretical beliefs.

Jesus commanded our perfection, in Matt 5:48.
The apostles writings illustrated how to obey that command.

I can only pray that the Lord takes out your heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh.

Your advice to me is that I go back into sin ?
I won't do that.

Does living without sinning hold no appeal for you at all ?

 

[JLB]

That is not what Peter and Ananias said.
Peter said..."Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins," (Acts 2:38)
Ananias said..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16)

Repent, which is confessing Jesus as LORD is how your sins are forgiven.

But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20






Everyone should indeed get water baptized, however water baptism is for believers, those who are already saved.

 

[electedbyHim]

Jesus commanded our perfection, in Matt 5:48.
The apostles writings illustrated how to obey that command.

Your advice to me is that I go back into sin ?
I won't do that.

Does living without sinning hold no appeal for you at all ?

You just do not get it.

You are blinded by the god of this world.

I am praying that the Lord opens your eyes.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Jesus taught His disciples who were saved because the gave heed to His Gospel and were following Him.
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

Do sinners "follow Him" ?

Jesus taught them and commissioned them to teach all nations what He taught them and to make disciples.
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matthew 28:18-20

• teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;

Are sinners disciples of Christ ?
Do they observe all that Jesus commanded ?

Here is what Jesus taught His disciples about forgiving sins.

• Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:15-17
This is called the doctrine of Christ. If you choose to change the doctrine of Christ then you take that up with the LORD on that Day.

If my natural brother sins against me, I will be quick to forgive.
But no sinner is my brother in Christ, as there is no sin in Christ.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2 John 9

Jesus said that transgressors don't abide in Him.
It must be those who don't transgress/sin who do abide in Him !

Calling the doctrine of Christ about forgiveness the law of Moses is basically blasphemy.

Do sinners abide in Him ?

 

[JLB]

Jesus commanded our perfection, in Matt 5:48.

For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:46-48

Jesus command was to love. Not claim you are sinlessly perfect which just shows how deceived you are.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:8

 

[JLB]

Do sinners "follow Him" ?

Disciples follow Christ.

People who are saved.

Just as Peter and the disciples were saved when Jesus taught them about love and forgiveness and dealing with a brother who sins.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No sir.

It happens when you repent, and confess Jesus as Lord.

You are still talking about sanctification...right ?
If so, then sanctification is no wise gradual, as you posted earlier.

You are saved and forgiven your sins, which has nothing to do with water baptism.

I stand with Peter and Ananias.
Your source is polluted.

But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

Even Jesus says to Paul..."turn from darkness, so you may be forgiven".
Lust like Peter said in Acts 2:38..."Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,"

“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20

Why do you think those works can't be done immediately after turning from darkness ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

You just do not get it.

You are blinded by the god of this world.

I am praying that the Lord opens your eyes.

The god of this world does not want people to quit sinning.
The Lord opened my eyes long ago, and allowed me to know that I could live without sin.
I pray that your eyes will soon be opened, like mine were many years ago.
The Lord will never show a man that he can continue to commit sin and call themselves one of His.

 

[Hopeful 2]

For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:46-48

Jesus command was to love. Not claim you are sinlessly perfect which just shows how deceived you are.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:8

How can I say I love, but still commit sin ?

 

[JLB]

I stand with Peter and Ananias.
Your source is polluted.

Wow. Jesus is polluted?

Why would you say such a thing.

I actually quote scripture, and words directly from Jesus Christ.

But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20

Water baptism is symbolic reference to dying and being resurrected with Christ.

The “likeness” of His death and resurrection.


For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, Romans 6:5


Your claim that a person literally dies under water and is literally raised from the dead is heresy.


Your physical body is not born again. It is your spirit that is born again.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Wow. Jesus is polluted?

No, your source is polluted.
Your source is in opposition to what Luke wrote about Peter and Paul.

Why would you say such a thing.

I didn't say it.
You must have misunderstood what I was actually saying.

I actually quote scripture, and words directly from Jesus Christ.
But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20

Amen to Jesus' words.
"Quit sinning and start loving!"

Water baptism is symbolic reference to dying and being resurrected with Christ.

Because it is only symbolic to you, you will cannot experience its power.

The “likeness” of His death and resurrection.
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, Romans 6:5

Yep, the exact likeness !

Your claim that a person literally dies under water and is literally raised from the dead is heresy.

A person literally joins Christ, in His death, burial, and resurrection, by baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sin.

Your physical body is not born again. It is your spirit that is born again.

If the old me was destroyed, (Rom 6:6), then a new me types these words today.

 

[JLB]

No, your source is polluted.
Your source is in opposition to what Luke wrote about Peter and Paul.

I didn't say it.
You must have misunderstood what I was actually saying.

Amen to Jesus' words.
"Quit sinning and start loving!"

Because it is only symbolic to you, you will cannot experience its power.

Yep, the exact likeness !

A person literally joins Christ, in His death, burial, and resurrection, by baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sin.

If the old me was destroyed, (Rom 6:6), then a new me types these words today.

Your whole misguided theology is built upon the theory that your physical body was born again “sinless” when you were baptized in water.

Your spirit was born again, not your physical body.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:6


The Spirit did not give birth to your body.


Your body will be changed, at the resurrection of the dead in Christ… if you have been forgiven and cleansed of your sins.

 

[WIP]

There have always been some in the history of the church who have taken commands such as Matthew 5:48 (“You, therefore, must be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect”) or 2 Corinthians 7:1 (“let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God”) and reasoned that since God gives us these commands, he must also give us the ability to obey them perfectly.

I see these commands as the benchmark that we are to hit to save ourselves. However, it is without a doubt we will never achieve it, and it is for this reason that Jesus came in the flesh to fulfill the law that we are incapable of doing and why we so desperately need a Savior.

This does not mean we are exempt from trying our best, not to save ourselves but in love for that which Christ has done for us.

 

[Dave...]

In the context of justification, our whole lives are weighed. It's not a moment in time achieved.

Dave

 

[Hopeful 2]

Your whole misguided theology is built upon the theory that your physical body was born again “sinless” when you were baptized in water.
Your spirit was born again, not your physical body.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:6

Was Jesus' body born of the Spirit ?
It is written..."Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." (Matt 1:18)

The Spirit did not give birth to your body.

Then Jesus never existed.

Your body will be changed, at the resurrection of the dead in Christ… if you have been forgiven and cleansed of your sins.

Makes me think of Col 2:11..."In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:"
If you think the body is not reborn of the Spirit, then you must still be walking around in the body of your past sins.
Uncircumcized of heart.

It isn't too late for you to cast off the flesh and walk in the Spirit.
I will rejoice with you when you..."Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:" (Col 3:9-10)

It is written..."For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Gal 3:27)
Haven't you been baptized into Christ ?

 

[KV-44-v1]

Matthew 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Do you actually think that because humans have a goal, must mean it is possible or likely that the goal will be achieved??