Again, simply posting verses often doesn't do much. It certainly doesn't show that one has a proper understanding of the verse. This verse shows what I've been saying all along--that good works are evidence of a saving faith, not the basis of it.
Sinless to be saved
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Same, same. Simply posting verses like this is not at all helpful nor conducive to good discussion.
No, it isn't.
If it were a heresy then Jesus was a heretic for commanding it in Matt 5:48.
And Paul was a heretic for commanding it in 1 Cor 15:34, and 2 Cor 13:11.
And Peter is a heretic for commanding perfection in 1 Peter 1:15-16 and 1 Peter 4:1.
And John ?
He cited sinless perfection in multiple places, including 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18.
It is those who opine that we can not obey God perfectly that espouse heresy.
What is the point of that growth if it can never bear fruit ?
You said that obedience to Him is evidence of salvation, in post #15.
If that is true, then disobedience to Him is evidence of no salvation.
I agree with what you said, so are you changing your mind ?
You are correct for Scripture also says that we "shall be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:48 NKJV) That is how we can earn heaven by our own accord but I have to ask, how's that going for you? I think you're lacking some understanding. There isn't a human being alive today that can claim to follow the law to perfection and therefore claim righteousness before God nor is there anyone capable of pulling it off so-to-speak. We are not capable and by God's grace He has made a way for us for "No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it." 1 Corinthians 10:13 NKJV
We can and should most certainly try our best to follow the law out of love for the Christ, Jesus, but our best is still going to fall short. It's in our nature and we will fail. Here are some examples to explain our plight due to our sinful nature.
1 John 1:8-10 ESV
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Romans3:19-24 ESV
Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin, But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:10-11 ESV
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law.
The Apostle Paul clearly gave example of our inability to fully meet the requirements of the law in Romans 7:14-25 ESV.
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!
It is only through faith in Jesus that we have any hope whatsoever.
John 3:14-18 NKJV
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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Faith certainly does not mean keeping the law.
- Yet the law is not of faith
Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:12-14
Sinless perfection is Heresy.
Here is what Jesus taught His disciples about a brother who sins.
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:15-17
- Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
- But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’
- And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Sorry but you have a man made teaching that is not from Christ.
You have deceived yourself and those who are foolish enough to listen to you and not study scripture for themselves.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10
- If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
- If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Have you ever in your entire walk with Christ ever confessed your sins?
If you haven’t then you are still in your sins and are in danger of going the way of unbelievers.
JLB
Those OT saints who thought that they could justify themselves by the law, the reality of that Idea, the utter impossibility of it, is what Jesus is expressing in those verses early in the four Gospels, when He tells them to obey the Law, or the commandments to be saved. He was merely stating the obvious, that 'what is impossible for man is possible for God'. The Law demands perfect obedience. Remember, in the Gospels, your still in the OT dispensation until the cross.
This is why those who asked Jesus what must man do to be saved, He stringently laid out what it means to obey the Law. When they heard this, their reply was obvious. 'What then can man do?' They got the point. It was impossible to justify themselves by the Law.
That's why Jesus is the end of the Law for righteousness for everyone who believes. He did for us what we couldn't do.
Dave
This is why those who asked Jesus what must man do to be saved, He stringently laid out what it means to obey the Law. When they heard this, their reply was obvious. 'What then can man do?' They got the point. It was impossible to justify themselves by the Law.
That's why Jesus is the end of the Law for righteousness for everyone who believes. He did for us what we couldn't do.
Dave
No, it isn't.
Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ remits past sins, so everyone who has ever been baptized in the name of the Lord waqs sinless at some point.
Those whose repentance from sin was true, will continue on that lighted path for the rest of their lives.
Jesus spoke to unregenerated Jews.
Not to those reborn from His Father's seed.
I am sorry you can't believe anyone can walk in the light, wherein is no sin.
Only those who walk in darkness commit sin.
They cannot say they have fellowship with God, that they know God, or that they have so sin.
Those walking in God can say all of that !
Thanks be to the remitting blood of Christ !
Those walking in the light cannot commit sin, because there is no sin is the light.
If you desire forgiveness, you must not ever do that sin again.
A false repentance from sin is a lie to God.
Yes, at my repentance from sin...Nov 1, 2008.
Haven't you just been going on about not being able to say I have no sin ?
But now you point out that I can be "out" of my sins ?
Pick a path !
Yes, it is. It goes against the entire Bible. Not a single Christian has ever been or can ever be perfect from the moment of salvation, unless they die immediately after.
Not at all. First, the word for "perfect," teleios, means complete, finished, pure, full grown, and mature. Second, in no way does it follow that someone who commands perfection is then also a heretic. In commanding perfection is setting the standard to aim for, otherwise, how would people know?
Mat 19:20 The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?”
Mat 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”
Mat 19:22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. (ESV)
Do you actually think that Jesus meant that the young man would be made morally perfect? I sure don't.
Paul also said that we only "know in part" and "see in a mirror dimly" (1 Cor. 13:9, 12). If that is the case then no person can be perfect in their knowledge of God and Scripture. It then follows that we cannot be perfect in our obedience. We also know that Peter sinned and Paul called him out for it (Gal. 2:11-14). Paul also said:
Php 3:12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. (ESV)
Paul didn't think he had yet reached moral or spiritual perfection, so why do you?
Jas 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.
Jas 3:2 For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body. (ESV)
James sure didn't believe in sinless perfection either.
1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,
1Pe 1:15 but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
1Pe 1:16 since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” (ESV)
If true believers were automatically perfectly sinless, commands such as "do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance" and "as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct," which fill the NT, would be absolutely pointless.
Except he didn’t. That is to ignore context, which I have repeatedly given before. John clearly states that anyone who claims to be without sin is self-deceived, doesn't have the truth, makes God a liar, and doesn't have God's word in them (1 John 1:8, 10). He discusses what to do when a believer sins--confess to God (1 John 1:9) because he will forgive on the basis of Christ's work and him being our advocate (1 John 2:1-2). He also discusses what to do when a fellow believer sins, in 1 John 5:16, which means your appeal to verse 18 is taken out of context and you have arrived at an incorrect conclusion.
Not a single person has said that "we can not obey God." That is a straw man.
Where in the fruit of the Spirit is sinless perfection listed In Gal. 5:22-23? Where does any NT writer claim to be sinless or that believers actually are sinless? Rather, much of the NT was written to deal with the sin of believers. Again, the numerous commands regarding the things believers should not do are meaningless if we cannot actually do them. Likewise, the commands to be holy and perfect are meaningless if we already are.
No. Those who are not in Christ cannot please God, ever. They will not choose to obey what he commands because their unchanged nature makes it impossible.
It is only those who are in Christ who can choose to obey Christ, but that means they can also choose to disobey, and they do. But as the Spirit convicts believers of sin and they confess, as they follow the commands to do good and pursue righteousness, they grow in sanctification.
Were that true, then repentance from sin is also a false doctrine.
If one "turns from" sin, they are made non-sinners !
It can mean those things, depending on context.
You keep saying that perfect obedience to God is a false doctrine, but now say those espousing Jesus' doctrine which is according to Godliness are not heretics ?
Make up your mind .
He could have been as perfect as any OT man could have been.
Until Jesus was resurrected from the grave, nobody could be NT perfect.
Knowledge is not an indicator of conscience.
That isn't what Paul had yet to attain.
He still awaited the resurrection (v 11) and his new vessel (v21).
What James did not believe in were conflicting-teachings.
Salt and pure water from the same spout.
He had a "too many cooks spoil the broth" situation to deal with.
Not everyone who reads the bible are believers.
By adhering to the exhortations and admonissions, we can remain perfectly sinless.
The new born begin perfect, and can remain that way.
Must remain that way !
If we cannot say we have no sin, we are walking in darkness.
Sin is a choice.
Those walking in God, (the light), choose to obey Him.
If one believes, they will obey God without fault.
They would have such fear of God's judgement on the last day, they would never soil themselves and garner to themselves His angry wrath.
Bingo !
Those who commit sin choose to, because they have not been reborn of God's perfect seed.
A true repentance from sin, and rebirth, will fix that.
You espouse the doctrine of an unwinnable war.
My Leader conquered sin, and the flesh, and death, at His resurrection.
In Him, I partake in that conquest.
Those not "in Him", cannot partake in the victory.
For those who want to learn.
Sanctification Is Never Completed in This Life. There have always been some in the history of the church who have taken commands such as Matthew 5:48 (“You, therefore, must be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect”) or 2 Corinthians 7:1 (“let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God”) and reasoned that since God gives us these commands, he must also give us the ability to obey them perfectly. Therefore, they have concluded, it is possible for us to attain a state of sinless perfection in this life. Moreover, they point to Paul’s prayer for the Thessalonians, “May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly” (1 Thess. 5:23), and infer that Paul’s prayer may well have been fulfilled for some of the Thessalonian Christians. In fact, John even says, “No one who abides in him sins” (1 John 3:6)! Do these verses not point to the possibility of sinless perfection in the life of some Christians? In this discussion, I will use the term perfectionism to refer to this view that sinless perfection is possible in this life.
On closer inspection, these passages do not support the perfectionist position. First, it is simply not taught in Scripture that when God gives a command, he also gives the ability to obey it in every case.6 God commands all people everywhere to obey all of his moral laws and holds them accountable for failing to obey them, even though unredeemed people are sinners and, as such, dead in trespasses and sins, and thus unable to obey God’s commands. When Jesus commands us to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect (Matt. 5:48), this simply shows that God’s own absolute moral purity is the standard toward which we are to aim and the standard for which God holds us accountable. The fact that we are unable to attain that standard does not mean that it will be lowered; rather, it means that we need God’s grace and forgiveness to overcome our remaining sin. Similarly, when Paul commands the Corinthians to make holiness perfect in the fear of the Lord (2 Cor. 7:1), or prays that God would sanctify the Thessalonians wholly (1 Thess. 5:23), he is pointing to the goal that he desires them to reach. He does not imply that any reach it, but only that this is the high moral standard toward which God wants all believers to aspire.
John’s statement that “No one who abides in him sins” (1 John 3:6) does not teach that some of us attain perfection, because the present-tense Greek verbs are better translated as indicating continual or habitual activity: “No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him” (1 John 3:6 NIV). This is similar to John’s statement a few verses later, “No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God” (1 John 3:9 NIV). If these verses were taken to prove sinless perfection, they would have to prove it for all Christians, because they talk about what is true of everyone born of God, and everyone who has seen Christ and known him.7
Therefore, there do not seem to be any convincing verses in Scripture that teach that it is possible for anyone to be completely free of sin in this life. On the other hand, there are passages in both the Old and New Testaments that clearly teach that we cannot be morally perfect in this life. In Solomon’s prayer at the dedication of the temple, he says, “If they sin against you—for there is no man who does not sin” (1 Kings 8:46). Similarly, we read a rhetorical question with an implied negative answer in Proverbs 20:9: “Who can say, “I have made my heart clean; I am pure from my sin’?” And we read the explicit statement in Ecclesiastes 7:20, “Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.”
In the New Testament, we find Jesus commanding his disciples to pray, “Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our sins as we also have forgiven those who sin against us” (Matt. 6:11–12, author’s translation). Just as the prayer for daily bread provides a model for a prayer that should be repeated each day, so the prayer for the forgiveness of sins is included in the type of prayer that should be made each day in a believer’s life.
As we noted above, when Paul talks about the new power over sin that is given to a Christian, he does not say that there will be no sin in the Christian’s life, but simply tells the believers not to let sin “reign” in their bodies nor to “yield” their members to sin (Rom. 6:12–13). He does not say that they will not sin, but says that sin will not dominate or “have...dominion” over them (Rom. 6:14). The very fact that he issues these directions shows his realization that sin will continue to be present in the lives of believers throughout their time on earth. Even James the brother of our Lord could say, “We all make many mistakes” (James 3:2), and if James himself can say this, then we certainly should be willing to say it as well. Finally, in the same letter in which John declares so frequently that a child of God will not continue in a pattern of sinful behavior, he also says clearly, “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8). Here John explicitly excludes the possibility of being completely free from sin in our lives. In fact, he says that anyone who claims to be free from sin is simply deceiving himself, and the truth is not in him.8
But once we have concluded that sanctification will never be completed in this life, we must exercise pastoral wisdom and caution in the way we use this truth. Some may take this fact and use it as an excuse not to strive for holiness or grow in sanctification—a procedure exactly contrary to dozens of New Testament commands. Others may think about the fact that we cannot be perfect in this life and lose hope of making any progress in the Christian life—an attitude that is also contrary to the clear teaching of Romans 6 and other passages about the resurrection power of Christ in our lives enabling us to overcome sin. Therefore, although sanctification will never be completed in this life, we must also emphasize that it should never stop increasing in this life.
Moreover, as Christians grow in maturity, the kinds of sin that remain in their lives are often not so much sins of words or deeds that are outwardly noticeable to others, but inward sins of attitudes and motives of the heart—desires such as pride and selfishness, lack of courage or faith, lack of zeal in loving God with our whole hearts and our neighbors as ourselves, and failure to fully trust God for all that he promises in every situation. These are real sins! They show how far short we fall of the moral perfection of Christ.
However, recognizing the nature of these sins that will persist even in more mature Christians also helps to guard against misunderstanding when we say that no one will be perfect and free from sin in this life. It is certainly possible that many mature Christians at many times during the day are free from conscious or willful acts of disobedience to God in their words or their deeds. In fact, if Christian leaders are to “set the believers an example in speech and conduct, in love, in faith, in purity” (1 Tim. 4:12), then it will frequently be true that their lives will be free from words or deeds that others will count as blameworthy. But this is far removed from attaining total freedom from sin in our motives and in the thoughts and intents of our hearts.
John Murray notes that when Isaiah the prophet came into the presence of God he could only cry out, “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!” (Isa. 6:5). And when Job, whose righteousness was earlier commended in the story about his life, came into the presence of almighty God, he could only say, “I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you; therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes” (Job 42:5–6). Murray concludes from these examples and from the testimony of other saints through the history of the church:
Indeed, the more sanctified the person is, the more conformed he is to the image of his Savior, the more he must recoil against every lack of conformity to the holiness of God. The deeper his apprehension of the majesty of God, the greater the intensity of his love to God, the more persistent his yearning for the attainment of the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, the more conscious will he be of the gravity of the sin that remains and the more poignant will be his detestation of it....Was this not the effect in all the people of God as they came into closer proximity to the revelation of God’s holiness?9
Grudem, W. A. (1994). Systematic theology : An introduction to biblical doctrine (747). Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, Mich.: Inter-Varsity Press; Zondervan Pub. House.
Sanctification Is Never Completed in This Life. There have always been some in the history of the church who have taken commands such as Matthew 5:48 (“You, therefore, must be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect”) or 2 Corinthians 7:1 (“let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God”) and reasoned that since God gives us these commands, he must also give us the ability to obey them perfectly. Therefore, they have concluded, it is possible for us to attain a state of sinless perfection in this life. Moreover, they point to Paul’s prayer for the Thessalonians, “May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly” (1 Thess. 5:23), and infer that Paul’s prayer may well have been fulfilled for some of the Thessalonian Christians. In fact, John even says, “No one who abides in him sins” (1 John 3:6)! Do these verses not point to the possibility of sinless perfection in the life of some Christians? In this discussion, I will use the term perfectionism to refer to this view that sinless perfection is possible in this life.
On closer inspection, these passages do not support the perfectionist position. First, it is simply not taught in Scripture that when God gives a command, he also gives the ability to obey it in every case.6 God commands all people everywhere to obey all of his moral laws and holds them accountable for failing to obey them, even though unredeemed people are sinners and, as such, dead in trespasses and sins, and thus unable to obey God’s commands. When Jesus commands us to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect (Matt. 5:48), this simply shows that God’s own absolute moral purity is the standard toward which we are to aim and the standard for which God holds us accountable. The fact that we are unable to attain that standard does not mean that it will be lowered; rather, it means that we need God’s grace and forgiveness to overcome our remaining sin. Similarly, when Paul commands the Corinthians to make holiness perfect in the fear of the Lord (2 Cor. 7:1), or prays that God would sanctify the Thessalonians wholly (1 Thess. 5:23), he is pointing to the goal that he desires them to reach. He does not imply that any reach it, but only that this is the high moral standard toward which God wants all believers to aspire.
John’s statement that “No one who abides in him sins” (1 John 3:6) does not teach that some of us attain perfection, because the present-tense Greek verbs are better translated as indicating continual or habitual activity: “No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him” (1 John 3:6 NIV). This is similar to John’s statement a few verses later, “No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God” (1 John 3:9 NIV). If these verses were taken to prove sinless perfection, they would have to prove it for all Christians, because they talk about what is true of everyone born of God, and everyone who has seen Christ and known him.7
Therefore, there do not seem to be any convincing verses in Scripture that teach that it is possible for anyone to be completely free of sin in this life. On the other hand, there are passages in both the Old and New Testaments that clearly teach that we cannot be morally perfect in this life. In Solomon’s prayer at the dedication of the temple, he says, “If they sin against you—for there is no man who does not sin” (1 Kings 8:46). Similarly, we read a rhetorical question with an implied negative answer in Proverbs 20:9: “Who can say, “I have made my heart clean; I am pure from my sin’?” And we read the explicit statement in Ecclesiastes 7:20, “Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.”
In the New Testament, we find Jesus commanding his disciples to pray, “Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our sins as we also have forgiven those who sin against us” (Matt. 6:11–12, author’s translation). Just as the prayer for daily bread provides a model for a prayer that should be repeated each day, so the prayer for the forgiveness of sins is included in the type of prayer that should be made each day in a believer’s life.
As we noted above, when Paul talks about the new power over sin that is given to a Christian, he does not say that there will be no sin in the Christian’s life, but simply tells the believers not to let sin “reign” in their bodies nor to “yield” their members to sin (Rom. 6:12–13). He does not say that they will not sin, but says that sin will not dominate or “have...dominion” over them (Rom. 6:14). The very fact that he issues these directions shows his realization that sin will continue to be present in the lives of believers throughout their time on earth. Even James the brother of our Lord could say, “We all make many mistakes” (James 3:2), and if James himself can say this, then we certainly should be willing to say it as well. Finally, in the same letter in which John declares so frequently that a child of God will not continue in a pattern of sinful behavior, he also says clearly, “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8). Here John explicitly excludes the possibility of being completely free from sin in our lives. In fact, he says that anyone who claims to be free from sin is simply deceiving himself, and the truth is not in him.8
But once we have concluded that sanctification will never be completed in this life, we must exercise pastoral wisdom and caution in the way we use this truth. Some may take this fact and use it as an excuse not to strive for holiness or grow in sanctification—a procedure exactly contrary to dozens of New Testament commands. Others may think about the fact that we cannot be perfect in this life and lose hope of making any progress in the Christian life—an attitude that is also contrary to the clear teaching of Romans 6 and other passages about the resurrection power of Christ in our lives enabling us to overcome sin. Therefore, although sanctification will never be completed in this life, we must also emphasize that it should never stop increasing in this life.
Moreover, as Christians grow in maturity, the kinds of sin that remain in their lives are often not so much sins of words or deeds that are outwardly noticeable to others, but inward sins of attitudes and motives of the heart—desires such as pride and selfishness, lack of courage or faith, lack of zeal in loving God with our whole hearts and our neighbors as ourselves, and failure to fully trust God for all that he promises in every situation. These are real sins! They show how far short we fall of the moral perfection of Christ.
However, recognizing the nature of these sins that will persist even in more mature Christians also helps to guard against misunderstanding when we say that no one will be perfect and free from sin in this life. It is certainly possible that many mature Christians at many times during the day are free from conscious or willful acts of disobedience to God in their words or their deeds. In fact, if Christian leaders are to “set the believers an example in speech and conduct, in love, in faith, in purity” (1 Tim. 4:12), then it will frequently be true that their lives will be free from words or deeds that others will count as blameworthy. But this is far removed from attaining total freedom from sin in our motives and in the thoughts and intents of our hearts.
John Murray notes that when Isaiah the prophet came into the presence of God he could only cry out, “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!” (Isa. 6:5). And when Job, whose righteousness was earlier commended in the story about his life, came into the presence of almighty God, he could only say, “I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you; therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes” (Job 42:5–6). Murray concludes from these examples and from the testimony of other saints through the history of the church:
Indeed, the more sanctified the person is, the more conformed he is to the image of his Savior, the more he must recoil against every lack of conformity to the holiness of God. The deeper his apprehension of the majesty of God, the greater the intensity of his love to God, the more persistent his yearning for the attainment of the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, the more conscious will he be of the gravity of the sin that remains and the more poignant will be his detestation of it....Was this not the effect in all the people of God as they came into closer proximity to the revelation of God’s holiness?9
Grudem, W. A. (1994). Systematic theology : An introduction to biblical doctrine (747). Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, Mich.: Inter-Varsity Press; Zondervan Pub. House.
Faith and work are two sides of the same coin, one cannot be separated from the other. The really folly is this false dichotomy of "faith vs work".
perfectionism Theological teaching that moral perfection is not merely an ideal for a Christian to strive for, but is attainable in this life in the light of the Scriptures (Matt. 5:48; 1 Cor. 2:6; Eph. 4:13; Phil. 3:15; Col. 1:28; 4:12; Heb. 6:1; 1 John 4:18). In the early church and the Middle Ages, perfection was the goal of the monks and nuns as well as the mystics, and their attainment of this goal was in direct proportion to their asceticism and self-renunciation. In Protestantism, the major advocate of perfectionism was John Wesley, who was himself influenced by Jeremy Taylor and William Law as well as the Mennonites. For Wesley perfection was received through faith and confirmed by the Holy Spirit. Some Wesleyans do not use the term perfection, preferring entire sanctification as somehow less threatening. In the United States, the Oberlin theologians Charles Finney and Asa Mahan upheld perfectionism. Wesley’s perfectionism was carried forward by the American Holiness movement out of which sprang the Church of the Nazarene, the Wesleyan Church, and some forms of Pentecostalism.
Kurian, G. T. (2001). Nelson's new Christian dictionary : The authoritative resource on the Christian world. Nashville, Tenn.: Thomas Nelson Pubs.
Kurian, G. T. (2001). Nelson's new Christian dictionary : The authoritative resource on the Christian world. Nashville, Tenn.: Thomas Nelson Pubs.
Becoming a Christian does not exempt one from sinning or free him from obedience to the law of Christ. To say it does is to fall into one or both of the common errors concerning the Christian and sin. The one is a false perfectionism and the other antinomianism.
Unbiblical perfectionism teaches that the believer does not sin at all because he has rooted out the principle of sin. No believer can experience this kind of sinless perfection until the resurrection when he will be free from the sin principle within. A modified form of sinless perfection does not include eradication of the sin nature but teaches that a Christian can live without practicing sin for some period of time. But not practicing sin not only means not committing sin but also practicing and conforming to the will of God. Sinless perfection involves more than the absence of sin. In reality, the biblical doctrine of perfection means ripeness, maturity, fullness, completeness. Biblical perfection does not stand in contrast with sinfulness but with immaturity, and biblical perfection is something expected of a believer here on earth.<a href="#_ftn1" name="_ftnref1" title="">1</a>
1 An excellent discussion of the biblical doctrine was written by W. H. Griffith Thomas, “The Biblical Teaching Concerning Perfection,” The Sunday School Times, 22 July 1944, 515–16.
Ryrie, C. C. (1999). Basic theology : A popular systemic guide to understanding biblical truth (264). Chicago, Ill.: Moody Press.
Unbiblical perfectionism teaches that the believer does not sin at all because he has rooted out the principle of sin. No believer can experience this kind of sinless perfection until the resurrection when he will be free from the sin principle within. A modified form of sinless perfection does not include eradication of the sin nature but teaches that a Christian can live without practicing sin for some period of time. But not practicing sin not only means not committing sin but also practicing and conforming to the will of God. Sinless perfection involves more than the absence of sin. In reality, the biblical doctrine of perfection means ripeness, maturity, fullness, completeness. Biblical perfection does not stand in contrast with sinfulness but with immaturity, and biblical perfection is something expected of a believer here on earth.<a href="#_ftn1" name="_ftnref1" title="">1</a>
1 An excellent discussion of the biblical doctrine was written by W. H. Griffith Thomas, “The Biblical Teaching Concerning Perfection,” The Sunday School Times, 22 July 1944, 515–16.
Ryrie, C. C. (1999). Basic theology : A popular systemic guide to understanding biblical truth (264). Chicago, Ill.: Moody Press.
"Perfectionism" is the same all-or-nothing mindset that hinders you from achieving anything in fear of failure and disappointment, which must be overcome. Imperfect action trumps perfect inaction all the time. In that particular context of Matt. 5:43-48, "be perfect" is to be "impartial", a call for agape love, forgive your enemies and be gracious to them, don't hold a grudge and be resentful.
Repenting is how we are forgiven our past sins.
The sins we do as we are learning how as spiritual babes to walk according to the Spirit is a part of every believers life, and confessing our sins and or faults is how we are forgiven and cleansed to continue walking in the light.
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
- Notice that the blood of Jesus cleanses those who walk in the light from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:7-8
People like yourself, who claim they have no sin are self deceived. You will certainly be in for the shock of your life when you die and realize all you had to do is confess your sins to be forgiven.
I hope you repent of spreading the heresy of the false sinless perfection doctrine.
JLB
I consider that a false doctrine.
Men are sanctified by the application of Christ's atoning, redeeming, consecrating, sanctifying blood.
That all happens at water baptism into His death.