Sinners in the hands of an angry God

[Lyric's Dad]

Your doctrine comes from your mind, and not the Word of God. That is where the real problem is. It reminds me of satan tempting Jesus in the wilderness and using the scripture to tempt and persuade the Lord. It is very important to rightly divide the Word of truth, and since you do not believe that the Holy Spirit is God, I understand where your shortcomings are, not to mention you are not a member of the body of Christ Jesus, the Church.

Your proofs of these claims about me and your scriptural proofs of the claims about what the Word says are overwhelming me...

You have no humility to be overwhelmed, and you ignore scriptural proofs that do not coincide with your false doctrines. You are continually ridiculing the belief of believers, and that is characteric of the enemy, not a loving brother in Jesus Christ. You have shown me that you have no ties to the body of Christ as you continually cut and twist the scriptures.

Solo, did you not remember Vic asking for some kindness to be brought into this discussion?

This is one of several posts since then where you are attacking.

Furthermore, for you to deny him place in the Body of Christ is laughable. The only thing he twists is YOUR version of the Word of God.

I fully see his place in the Body and rejoice in his being there.

 

[Solo]

Your doctrine comes from your mind, and not the Word of God. That is where the real problem is. It reminds me of satan tempting Jesus in the wilderness and using the scripture to tempt and persuade the Lord. It is very important to rightly divide the Word of truth, and since you do not believe that the Holy Spirit is God, I understand where your shortcomings are, not to mention you are not a member of the body of Christ Jesus, the Church.

Your proofs of these claims about me and your scriptural proofs of the claims about what the Word says are overwhelming me...

You have no humility to be overwhelmed, and you ignore scriptural proofs that do not coincide with your false doctrines. You are continually ridiculing the belief of believers, and that is characteric of the enemy, not a loving brother in Jesus Christ. You have shown me that you have no ties to the body of Christ as you continually cut and twist the scriptures.

Solo, did you not remember Vic asking for some kindness to be brought into this discussion?

This is one of several posts since then where you are attacking.

Furthermore, for you to deny him place in the Body of Christ is laughable. The only thing he twists is YOUR version of the Word of God.

I fully see his place in the Body and rejoice in his being there.

I wouldn't expect you to see it any other way.

 

[Relic]

.

Thanks BB,

I need not say more in this thread about that post from Divine Names, you have given plenty good enough example.

And yes, the topic was being diverted by Divine Names interjection, be it inadvertently or not, I don't know, but yes, it is for another thread.




So then, back to the topic of Jonathan Edwards sermon.


SINNERS IN THE HANDS OF AN ANGRY GOD
by Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758)
Enfield, Connecticut
July 8, 1741

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/sinners.htm

It would serve well for us to read the whole sermon without throwing it in the garbage, now wouldn't it? Although "some of us" would be inclined to throw it across the room while in the midst of reading it. LOL : :wink: 8-)

And, one must not forget, the "old english emphasis" that of the times, after all... it was written in 1741. People back then were of a much more dramatic lingo than of the preachers of this day. Actually, I appreciate the styles of the older writings, they didn't leave out the tough lessons in life that we all must comprehend in order to come to a clearer understanding of mercy, and grace, repentance, and yes, as you have mentioned, "long-suffering",etc. , of which they were teaching in their sermons.

It does take the coming to an understanding of wrath in order to appreciate the stance of mercy and grace and that of coming to repentance of the transgressions against the life in which God wills for us, accordingly, to those who are called.

That dangling spider (which was mentioned earlier) .... represents consequences of ones own transgressions against the good will of God. It represents the undoing of oneself, it represents the place in which we all come to asking for mercy from out of the end result of choosing to transgress the good will.

For without suffering ( there are many forms of suffering) there is no awareness of a transformation to a higher and better place. I think the lessons of coming to an understanding of wrath, teach us the differences between and the transformations from one to another, in these things we experience , i.e, goodness and evil, night and day, life and death . Without these aspects of oppositions in all things, how would we in life measure and decern?



Jonathan Edwards, dramatic as they be, gives excellent example of what sin does to the soul of man "without" the restraint of the hand of God. 8-)

excerpt:

• 6. There are in the souls of wicked men those hellish principles reigning, that would presently kindle and flame out into hell fire, if it were not for God's restraints.
  
  
  There is laid in the very nature of carnal men, a foundation for the torments of hell. There are those corrupt principles, in reigning power in them, and in full possession of them, that are seeds of hell fire. These principles are active and powerful, exceeding violent in their nature, and if it were not for the restraining hand of God upon them, they would soon break out, they would flame out after the same manner as the same corruptions, the same enmity does in the hearts of damned souls, and would beget the same torments as they do in them.
  
  The souls of the wicked are in scripture compared to the troubled sea, Isa. lvii. 20.
  
  For the present, God restrains their wickedness by his mighty power, as he does the raging waves of the troubled sea, saying, "Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further;" but if God should withdraw that restraining power, it would soon carry all before it.
  
  Sin is the ruin and misery of the soul; it is destructive in its nature;
  
  and if God should leave it without restraint, there would need nothing else to make the soul perfectly miserable.
  
  
  The corruption of the heart of man is immoderate and boundless in its fury; and while wicked men live here, it is like fire pent up by God's restraints, whereas if it were let loose, it would set on fire the course of nature;
  
  and as the heart is now a sink of sin, so if sin was not restrained, it would immediately turn the soul into a fiery oven, or a furnace of fire and brimstone.

.

 

[Solo]

Relic,
Nice post and it is very good that you pointed out that he wrote that sermon in the 1700s when the common knowledge held to the truths of the Bible, and did not veer to the current political correct stand of many.

Doesn't the Bible teach that a falling away from sound doctrine will come prior to the return of Jesus Christ?! :wink:

Solo

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Your doctrine comes from your mind, and not the Word of God. That is where the real problem is. It reminds me of satan tempting Jesus in the wilderness and using the scripture to tempt and persuade the Lord. It is very important to rightly divide the Word of truth, and since you do not believe that the Holy Spirit is God, I understand where your shortcomings are, not to mention you are not a member of the body of Christ Jesus, the Church.

Your proofs of these claims about me and your scriptural proofs of the claims about what the Word says are overwhelming me...

You have no humility to be overwhelmed, and you ignore scriptural proofs that do not coincide with your false doctrines. You are continually ridiculing the belief of believers, and that is characteric of the enemy, not a loving brother in Jesus Christ. You have shown me that you have no ties to the body of Christ as you continually cut and twist the scriptures.

Solo, did you not remember Vic asking for some kindness to be brought into this discussion?

This is one of several posts since then where you are attacking.

Furthermore, for you to deny him place in the Body of Christ is laughable. The only thing he twists is YOUR version of the Word of God.

I fully see his place in the Body and rejoice in his being there.

I wouldn't expect you to see it any other way.

Solo, I am going to refrain from posting what I would like to here as it is not something I feel is beneficial but I must say that Vic has asked for some decency and for people to quit making personal jabs. As the one who tears through here shooting warnings at every person who steps outside the boundaries even a little, I would think you could see that you are doing so now. You have been asked by an Admin to stop and you continue.

I could care less how you see me as I don't adhere to your belief system but if you are going to be on this board, then you need to follow the rules. You are not above them and have been asked to come in line by one of the administrators. If you cannot do even that, then maybe you need to take a break from posting.

 

[bibleberean]

Rule 3 - Personel conflicts:

If you have personal problems with another member, then deal with it through private messages. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself. If the problem cannot be handled through private messages, then Report problems to Mods or Admins ASAP.

Matt. 18: 15. "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
16. "But if he will not hear you, take with you one or two more, that `by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.'

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Rule 3 - Personel conflicts:

If you have personal problems with another member, then deal with it through private messages. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself. If the problem cannot be handled through private messages, then Report problems to Mods or Admins ASAP.

Matt. 18: 15. "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
16. "But if he will not hear you, take with you one or two more, that `by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.'

You are right. I will p.m. him right now.

 

[wavy]

Thanx for the back up, Lyric's Dad.

However, I could do better myself. I may have intimidated him, and that's still wrong.

No hard feelings towards Solo. :-D

 

[Relic]

.

bump so we can get back to the topic of Jonathan Edwards sermon.


.


SINNERS IN THE HANDS OF AN ANGRY GOD
by Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758)
Enfield, Connecticut
July 8, 1741

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/sinners.htm

It would serve well for us to read the whole sermon without throwing it in the garbage, now wouldn't it? Although "some of us" would be inclined to throw it across the room while in the midst of reading it. LOL : :wink: 8-)

And, one must not forget, the "old english emphasis" that of the times, after all... it was written in 1741. People back then were of a much more dramatic lingo than of the preachers of this day. Actually, I appreciate the styles of the older writings, they didn't leave out the tough lessons in life that we all must comprehend in order to come to a clearer understanding of mercy, and grace, repentance, and yes, as you have mentioned, "long-suffering",etc. , of which they were teaching in their sermons.

It does take the coming to an understanding of wrath in order to appreciate the stance of mercy and grace and that of coming to repentance of the transgressions against the life in which God wills for us, accordingly, to those who are called.

That dangling spider (which was mentioned earlier) .... represents consequences of ones own transgressions against the good will of God. It represents the undoing of oneself, it represents the place in which we all come to asking for mercy from out of the end result of choosing to transgress the good will.

For without suffering ( there are many forms of suffering) there is no awareness of a transformation to a higher and better place. I think the lessons of coming to an understanding of wrath, teach us the differences between and the transformations from one to another, in these things we experience , i.e, goodness and evil, night and day, life and death . Without these aspects of oppositions in all things, how would we in life measure and decern?



Jonathan Edwards, dramatic as they be, gives excellent example of what sin does to the soul of man "without" the restraint of the hand of God. 8-)

excerpt:

• 6. There are in the souls of wicked men those hellish principles reigning, that would presently kindle and flame out into hell fire, if it were not for God's restraints.
  
  
  There is laid in the very nature of carnal men, a foundation for the torments of hell. There are those corrupt principles, in reigning power in them, and in full possession of them, that are seeds of hell fire. These principles are active and powerful, exceeding violent in their nature, and if it were not for the restraining hand of God upon them, they would soon break out, they would flame out after the same manner as the same corruptions, the same enmity does in the hearts of damned souls, and would beget the same torments as they do in them.
  
  The souls of the wicked are in scripture compared to the troubled sea, Isa. lvii. 20.
  
  For the present, God restrains their wickedness by his mighty power, as he does the raging waves of the troubled sea, saying, "Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further;" but if God should withdraw that restraining power, it would soon carry all before it.
  
  Sin is the ruin and misery of the soul; it is destructive in its nature;
  
  and if God should leave it without restraint, there would need nothing else to make the soul perfectly miserable.
  
  
  The corruption of the heart of man is immoderate and boundless in its fury; and while wicked men live here, it is like fire pent up by God's restraints, whereas if it were let loose, it would set on fire the course of nature;
  
  and as the heart is now a sink of sin, so if sin was not restrained, it would immediately turn the soul into a fiery oven, or a furnace of fire and brimstone.

.

 

[guibox]

.

That dangling spider (which was mentioned earlier) .... represents consequences of ones own transgressions against the good will of God. It represents the undoing of oneself, it represents the place in which we all come to asking for mercy from out of the end result of choosing to transgress the good will.

I respectfully disagree. If you twist it around enough to take it as gospel, then you can come to this conclusion as the truth is much more abhorrent to believe. This rhetoric is how God was viewed. He was some sort of Shiva. He was two faced and fickle even according to human reasoning.

According to Edward's, God hates sinners. He has pointed this out enough times to remove doubt that his God has no mercy upon sinners and that his love does not extend to them in any fashion. The spider analogy is God being active in acting out His disgust for sinners, not "a consequence of one's own transgressions"

 

[bibleberean]

Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.

The use of this awful subject may be for awakening unconverted persons in this congregation. This that you have heard is the case of every one of you that are out of Christ.-That world of misery, that lake of burning brimstone, is extended abroad under you. There is the dreadful pit of the glowing flames of the wrath of God; there is hell's wide gaping mouth open; and you have nothing to stand upon, nor any thing to take hold of, there is nothing between you and hell but the air; it is only the power and mere pleasure of God that holds you up.

You probably are not sensible of this; you find you are kept out of hell, but do not see the hand of God in it; but look at other things, as the good state of your bodily constitution, your care of your own life, and the means you use for your own preservation. But indeed these things are nothing; if God should withdraw his band, they would avail no more to keep you from falling, than the thin air to hold up a person that is suspended in it.

It must be understood that...

Jonathan Edwards is giving a great contrast between God's wrath and God's mercy as shown in the quote below.

And now you have an extraordinary opportunity, a day wherein Christ has thrown the door of mercy wide open, and stands in calling and crying with a loud voice to poor sinners; a day wherein many are flocking to him, and pressing into the kingdom of God. Many are daily coming from the east, west, north and south; many that were very lately in the same miserable condition that you are in, are now in a happy state, with their hearts filled with love to him who has loved them, and washed them from their sins in his own blood, and rejoicing in hope of the glory of God. How awful is it to be left behind at such a day! To see so many others feasting, while you are pining and perishing! To see so many rejoicing and singing for joy of heart, while you have cause to mourn for sorrow of heart, and howl for vexation of spirit! How can you rest one moment in such a condition? Are not your souls as precious as the souls of the people at Suffield, where they are flocking from day to day to Christ?

God's Free Gift of Salvation Is for sinners only

Perry Rockwood and the Peoples Gospel Hour


The outstanding characteristic of the Gospel of Christ is that it is only designed for self-judged, condemned sinners. The Gospel is only appreciated by those who realize their need. Self-sufficient, self-righteous, haughty, proud men do not care for the Gospel of Christ. But the guilty and broken in heart, realizing their condemnation before a holy God, rejoice in the message of free grace set forth in the Gospel.


In this little article, the Scriptures themselves are used to reveal that salvation is only for sinners. If you, reader, are such a one, and you desire to have salvation, read this message carefully.

Christ Came to Earth to Save Only Those Who Are Sinners

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief" (1 Timothy 1:15).
"For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost" (Luke 19:10).

"They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick" (Matthew 9:12).

The Only People God Loves Are Sinners

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8).
"In this was manifest the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 4:9,10).

Christ Died Only For Sinners

"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly" (Romans 5:6).
"Christ died for our sins" (1 Corinthians 15:3).

"And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins, and in him is no sin" (1 John 3:5).

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God (1 Peter 3:18).
"He appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself (Hebrews 9:26).

The Only People Invited to Come to Christ Are Sinners

"I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (Matthew 9:13).

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matthew 11:28).

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord; though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool" (Isaiah 1:18).

Sinners Are the Only People God Can Forgive

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace" (Ephesians 1:7).

"Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins" (Acts 13:38).

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).

The Only People That Christ Saves Are Sinners

"Thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins" (Matthew 1:21).

"Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners" (1 Timothy 1:15).

The Only People Who Go to Heaven Are Sinners Saved By Grace

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Revelation 5:9).

There Is A Fountain
There is a Fountain filled with blood
Drawn from Immanuel's veins;
And sinners plunged beneath that flood,
Lose all their guilty stains:

The dying thief rejoiced to see
That fountain in his day;
And there may I, though vile as he,
Wash all my sins away.

Dear dying Lamb, Thy precious blood
Shall never lose its power,
Till all the ransomed church of God
Be saved to sin no more.

E'er since by faith I saw the stream
Thy flowing wounds supply,
Redeeming love has been my theme,
And shall be till I die.

When this poor lisping, stammering tongue
Lies silent in the grave,
Then in a nobler, sweeter song,
I'll sing Thy power to save.
-William Cowper



"The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 John 1:7).