Bible Study Sola scripture ?

[twinc]

Hi Betty

OK!

This is more like a Bible study.
It's good to share our thoughts. I'm sure you know that we could read a chapter and miss something that another person noticed.

I'd like to add that they might not have recognized Jesus because they were disciples. Not every disciple of Jesus got to see Him up close.

sorry but one was an Apostle[Cleophas]who was close very close as brother in law to Mary - most have read this but do not realise how they eventually recognised Him in the breaking of bread - twinc

 

[GodsGrace]

It was a village, it doesn't mention that it was their home and they must have been very blessed to hear Him expound on HIS word and knew, without even knowing it was him, that they wanted him near them. He spoke the truth, His truth, and they must have recognized that. But I can only say based on the passage that that is how I would hope to feel if he came and expounded on HIS own to me. I think that i would recognize that, I think anyone would. However, we can ask Him to abide with us as we study His word.

I don't think that He's ever far away. And Paul said

The disciples, based on what they said to him about what took place, seemed to miss or possibly not remember that Jesus said He would rise on the third day, nor did they seem to be considering all of the things prophesied by the prophets of old concerning Him. So He expounded on those things.

The part where their eyes were "holden," and they didn't recognize Him." Always makes me wonder, as well, and this is just my own wondering, if he has ever tested us in this way.

But I believe that HE opens our eyes to His word and His truth.

This is a great post Betty.
There is much to be said here.
For instance, about our eyes being opened. We could talk about the idea of having eyes but not seeing, having ears but not hearing. And yes, it is the Holy Spirit that opens our eyes to the truth that God would like to impart to us.

It's my belief that even the Apostles did not fully grasp that Jesus would literally come back to life on the third day.
If they had, they would not have run to hide on the evening that Jesus was arrested. Only John remained in Jerusalem and was at the foot of the cross. The other Apostles became fearful and hid, probably in the home of Mary and Martha in Bethany which was close by and which they probably used for accomodations during Passover week.

Jesus spoke to them about the O.T. prophets exactly because He wanted them to understand that everything had been prophesied.

Anything else you care to add?

 

[Betty]

This is a great post Betty.
There is much to be said here.
For instance, about our eyes being opened. We could talk about the idea of having eyes but not seeing, having ears but not hearing. And yes, it is the Holy Spirit that opens our eyes to the truth that God would like to impart to us.

It's my belief that even the Apostles did not fully grasp that Jesus would literally come back to life on the third day.
If they had, they would not have run to hide on the evening that Jesus was arrested. Only John remained in Jerusalem and was at the foot of the cross. The other Apostles became fearful and hid, probably in the home of Mary and Martha in Bethany which was close by and which they probably used for accomodations during Passover week.

Jesus spoke to them about the O.T. prophets exactly because He wanted them to understand that everything had been prophesied.

Anything else you care to add?

They didn't fully grasp it, even though He told them before it even happened.

He told peter about the rooster crowing and denying Him three times. And Peter didn't grasp it until it happened.

He said that the disciples on the road were "slow of learning." I think sometimes we all are.

There's a passage in Daniel 12:4 where God told him to seal it up until the last days, and another in Revelation 10:4

Somethings won't be revealed until then. I always try to take the stance on those subjects that if we know what the word says regarding those things, then we'll recognize it when it happens. (I pray so)

There's about a million websites with a million different takes on end time prophecy....I try to stick with the word, and not read a lot of that kind of commentary.

 

[GodsGrace]

sorry but one was an Apostle[Cleophas]who was close very close as brother in law to Mary - most have read this but do not realise how they eventually recognised Him in the breaking of bread - twinc

Cleophas was an Apostle? Do you mean a disciple?
While the Apostles were alive, they were called Disciples.
After the death of Jesus some determination had to be made as to who spent His ministry with Him, so the name Apostles was used to distinguish from Disciples.

Cleophas was the brother (maybe) of Joseph, the earthly father of Jesus.

I found this on the internet:

The historian, Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea, quotes the earlier chronicler, Hegesippus, who wrote, c. AD 180, that he had years before interviewed the grandsons of Jude the Apostle and learned that Cleophas was the brother of Joseph, husband of the Virgin Mary: "After the martyrdom of James, it was unanimously decided that Simeon, son of Cleophas, was worthy to occupy the see of Jerusalem. He was, it is said, a cousin of the Saviour." Hegesippus noted that Cleophas was a brother of Joseph (Eusebius, Hist. eccl., III, 11). Epiphanius adds that Joseph and Cleopas were brothers, sons of "Jacob, surnamed Panther."[8]
Wikipedia

 

[GodsGrace]

Exactly, how blessed were they right?

I couldn't even imagine.

But I do believe the message in that passage is amazing. He opened their eyes. By what they said, their hearts burned within them as He opened up the scriptures along the way.

I miss stuff all the time, that's part of the reason I love discussing his word. Because it's more difficult to miss things when you have a group of faithful believers to show you what you missed.

AMEN!

 

[GodsGrace]

They didn't fully grasp it, even though He told them before it even happened.

He told peter about the rooster crowing and denying Him three times. And Peter didn't grasp it until it happened.

He said that the disciples on the road were "slow of learning." I think sometimes we all are.

There's a passage in Daniel 12:4 where God told him to seal it up until the last days, and another in Revelation 10:4

Somethings won't be revealed until then. I always try to take the stance on those subjects that if we know what the word says regarding those things, then we'll recognize it when it happens.

There's about a million websites with a million different takes on end time prophecy....I try to stick with the word, and not read a lot of that kind of commentary.

Betty, I've learned from you this evening and I love your last sentence.
Please continue to tell us all of your thoughts. There is much to learn!

It's late here.
Tomorrow...

 

[Betty]

Betty, I've learned from you this evening and I love your last sentence.
Please continue to tell us all of your thoughts. There is much to learn!

It's late here.
Tomorrow...

Have a blessed night.

 

[twinc]

This is a great post Betty.
There is much to be said here.
For instance, about our eyes being opened. We could talk about the idea of having eyes but not seeing, having ears but not hearing. And yes, it is the Holy Spirit that opens our eyes to the truth that God would like to impart to us.

It's my belief that even the Apostles did not fully grasp that Jesus would literally come back to life on the third day.
If they had, they would not have run to hide on the evening that Jesus was arrested. Only John remained in Jerusalem and was at the foot of the cross. The other Apostles became fearful and hid, probably in the home of Mary and Martha in Bethany which was close by and which they probably used for accomodations during Passover week.

Jesus spoke to them about the O.T. prophets exactly because He wanted them to understand that everything had been prophesied.

Anything else you care to add?

just wondering why only John was at the foot of the cross and why Jesus called His mother woman and not mother etc - twinc

 

[GodsGrace]

just wondering why only John was at the foot of the cross and why Jesus called His mother woman and not mother etc - twinc

Give us your thoughts?

Good night.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Give us your thoughts?

Good night.

He has not so far, no reason to change tactics now......

 

[Nathan]

just wondering why only John was at the foot of the cross and why Jesus called His mother woman and not mother etc - twinc

He was honoring her. It was love that He did what He did.

 

[Jim Parker]

Regarding Sola Scriptura. I do not have a problem with this since the bible is the authority by which all churches should measure their doctrine.

The "Sola Scriptura" itself refutes the idea that only the Bible is authoritative.

1TI 3:14 Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
The church is the pillar and foundation of faith, NOT the Bible

And scripture supports the authority of oral tradition.

2Ti 2:1-2 You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
That is Paul's endorsement of oral tradition.

Also, the decisions of the 7 great councils (which gave us the Trinity the deity of Jesus and the Holy Spirit, the "dual" nature of Christ) were based on both scripture (and the NT canon was not settled when they began) and what the Church had taught everywhere and at all times from the beginning. (That includes oral tradition and the writings of the early church leaders.)

However, I do believe that it's a good idea to study the bible in a mainline denomination and not by oneself.

Totally agree!
That gives the student access to people who have been properly trained in the scriptures so that no one has to depend on his own guesswork and imagination. (Which many erroneously ascribe to the "leading of the Holy Spirit")

Here's some "sola scriptura" to consider:

Oral teaching references
Act 2:42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching (That would be oral teaching since no part of the NT had been written at that time.)

RO 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

GAL 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? ……….. 5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

EPH 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

EPH 6:19 Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.

PHP 4:9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me - put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

COL 1:3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all the saints-- 5 the faith and love that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven and that you have already heard about in the word of truth, the gospel 6 that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth

COL 1:22 … he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation-- 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

1TH 2:13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

1TH 4:1 Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. 2 For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. (This is a reference to oral teaching.)

2TH 2:15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

2TI 1:13 What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

2TI 2:2 … the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.

HEB 2:1 We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2 For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.

JAS 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it--he will be blessed in what he does.

1JN 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life………..3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

1JN 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you:

1JN 2:7 Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard.

1JN 2:24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

1JN 3:11 This is the message you heard from the beginning:

1JN 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2JN 1: 6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

iakov the fool

 

[Pegasus]

it is not in the bible = besides the old ten commandments did Jesus give us any other commandments - twinc

What exactly is Sola Scriptura? Meaning how do you define it?

 

[GodsGrace]

The "Sola Scriptura" itself refutes the idea that only the Bible is authoritative.

1TI 3:14 Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
The church is the pillar and foundation of faith, NOT the Bible

And scripture supports the authority of oral tradition.

2Ti 2:1-2 You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
That is Paul's endorsement of oral tradition.

Also, the decisions of the 7 great councils (which gave us the Trinity the deity of Jesus and the Holy Spirit, the "dual" nature of Christ) were based on both scripture (and the NT canon was not settled when they began) and what the Church had taught everywhere and at all times from the beginning. (That includes oral tradition and the writings of the early church leaders.)



Totally agree!
That gives the student access to people who have been properly trained in the scriptures so that no one has to depend on his own guesswork and imagination. (Which many erroneously ascribe to the "leading of the Holy Spirit")

Here's some "sola scriptura" to consider:

Oral teaching references
Act 2:42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching (That would be oral teaching since no part of the NT had been written at that time.)

RO 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

GAL 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? ……….. 5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

EPH 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

EPH 6:19 Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.

PHP 4:9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me - put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

COL 1:3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all the saints-- 5 the faith and love that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven and that you have already heard about in the word of truth, the gospel 6 that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth

COL 1:22 … he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation-- 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

1TH 2:13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

1TH 4:1 Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. 2 For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. (This is a reference to oral teaching.)

2TH 2:15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

2TI 1:13 What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

2TI 2:2 … the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.

HEB 2:1 We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2 For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.

JAS 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it--he will be blessed in what he does.

1JN 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life………..3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

1JN 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you:

1JN 2:7 Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard.

1JN 2:24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

1JN 3:11 This is the message you heard from the beginning:

1JN 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2JN 1: 6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

iakov the fool

Hi Jim,
I love 1 John 1:1 which explains why the bible was written (each letter or gospel individually).

I find 2 Thessaloneans 2:15 to be very important. The NASB says:
"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us."

The NASB uses the word Tradition instead of Teachings. I believe a tradition is more important than a teaching, but when we're speaking about God's word, they are the same and equal.

If we read the ECF, we find that everything they said is based on the bible. The bible is our source for doctrine. It could be said that the ECF's could also be that source since they, of course, had faith in the letters before the N.T. was assembled.

I've tried on several occasions to post the ECF but most will not heed what they taught. It's surprising to me that someone will not believe what a person who KNEW John the Apostle wrote about a subject, but they will trust what someone in the 1500's said or someone in the 1800's, or even the new hyper-grace movement which is currently enveloping Christianity.

By my post I meant that only the bible is authoritative because any doctrine must be based on that; otherwise, anyone could just make up their own doctrine. Any doctrine must be biblically based.

 

[GodsGrace]

The "Sola Scriptura" itself refutes the idea that only the Bible is authoritative.

1TI 3:14 Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
The church is the pillar and foundation of faith, NOT the Bible

And scripture supports the authority of oral tradition.

2Ti 2:1-2 You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
That is Paul's endorsement of oral tradition.

Also, the decisions of the 7 great councils (which gave us the Trinity the deity of Jesus and the Holy Spirit, the "dual" nature of Christ) were based on both scripture (and the NT canon was not settled when they began) and what the Church had taught everywhere and at all times from the beginning. (That includes oral tradition and the writings of the early church leaders.)



Totally agree!
That gives the student access to people who have been properly trained in the scriptures so that no one has to depend on his own guesswork and imagination. (Which many erroneously ascribe to the "leading of the Holy Spirit")

Here's some "sola scriptura" to consider:

Oral teaching references
Act 2:42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching (That would be oral teaching since no part of the NT had been written at that time.)

RO 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

GAL 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? ……….. 5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

EPH 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

EPH 6:19 Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.

PHP 4:9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me - put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

COL 1:3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all the saints-- 5 the faith and love that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven and that you have already heard about in the word of truth, the gospel 6 that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth

COL 1:22 … he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation-- 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

1TH 2:13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

1TH 4:1 Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. 2 For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. (This is a reference to oral teaching.)

2TH 2:15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

2TI 1:13 What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

2TI 2:2 … the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.

HEB 2:1 We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2 For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.

JAS 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it--he will be blessed in what he does.

1JN 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life………..3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

1JN 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you:

1JN 2:7 Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard.

1JN 2:24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

1JN 3:11 This is the message you heard from the beginning:

1JN 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2JN 1: 6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

iakov the fool

 

[chessman]

The church is the pillar and foundation of faith, NOT the Bible.

Notice how when someone (in or out of the church) comes along and says; "The church is the pillar and foundation of faith, NOT the Bible." his/her statement can so easily be corrected using the authority of truths within Scripture as follows:

1 Tim 3:14... God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

1 Tim 3:14 doesn't even use the word "faith".

God's household (where God dwells and is in authority and is the only one in authority) is the church of the living God.
Churches who worship a god who is dead do not have God in that church.
Churches who do not have God in charge of the church do not have God living in that church.
Churches who worship any one or any thing other than the living God do not have God living in that church.

God's household = churches who worship only the living God and submit to God's authority no other authority) is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

If a church has God alone as it head, that church has a firm foundation that can hold truth up high in the air like a pillar with truth placed atop it standing on a firm foundation forever for all to see.

The Truth shows us things that are false.

The truth is; churches that submit to any authority, other than God, are false chuches.

The Truth is; churches that worship any god, other than the living God, are false churches.

 

[Betty]

Notice how when someone (in or out of the church) comes along and says; "The church is the pillar and foundation of faith, NOT the Bible." his/her statement can so easily be corrected using the authority of truths within Scripture as follows:

1 Tim 3:14... God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

1 Tim 3:14 doesn't even use the word "faith".

God's household (where God dwells and is in authority and is the only one in authority) is the church of the living God.
Churches who worship a god who is dead do not have God in that church.
Churches who do not have God in charge of the church do not have God living in that church.
Churches who worship any one or any thing other than the living God do not have God living in that church.

God's household = churches who worship only the living God and submit to God's authority no other authority) is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

If a church has God alone as it head, that church has a firm foundation that can hold truth up high in the air like a pillar with truth placed atop it standing on a firm foundation forever for all to see.

The Truth shows us things that are false.

The truth is; churches that submit to any authority, other than God, are false chuches.

The Truth is; churches that worship any god, other than the living God, are false churches.

True, true Chessmen, to add to the scripture that you shared.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

A God focused bible reading church is a good church. God's word is the authority.

There's a few mega churches, no names, but a few that I've seen on CBN that seem to be more motivational than bible focused.

I always believed that if a Church teaches non-believers about Jesus, and people are saved within that church, then it's good.

I think with all the denominational differences some eventually dig into the word themselves. I really believe that once a person is saved that seeking the answers through prayerful study, asking Jesus to abide with the person and asking Him questions is a key part of maturing and growing. To me, there's nothing more amazing than to seek an answer out in Christ and to get that answer. (I personally spent a lot of years complaining that the bible was too hard to understand, so I wasted a lot of time.) No matter how difficult something seems, NOTHING is too hard for Jesus.

I can also say that I know that HE teaches us and He does answer. There's a verse where Jesus says to the disciples, "I have much to say to you, but you cannot bear it." Paul also spoke to the Coriths about milk and strong meat.

With what Paul said in mind with what Jesus said, I personally have had times where I asked a question and there seemed to be no answer, but knowing that Jesus answers, (and when He does it's unmistakable,) I learned to put it aside and not stress over the answer, and continued on with my next study. Over time, the answer to the question was clear, and I wasn't ready to hear it until that time. The first question I asked was right in the very first chapter of the bible, and the very next day He answered, and when I realized this, I jumped around the room for about fifteen minutes. It was really something.

I'm sharing that experience to hopefully encourage anyone who's reading this, to seek everything out in Christ, asking Him questions and being patient (at times) for the answer.

 

[chessman]

A God focused bible reading church is a good church. God's word is the authority.

Yes. And a good focused Bible reading church has leaders that lead people TO the authority (God's word).

 

[chessman]

I personally spent a lot of years complaining that the bible was too hard to understand, so I wasted a lot of time.)

Evidently, you've made up for lost time.
[and no, not just because we happen to agree on various subjects. I'm sure that if we talked long enough, we'd find some detail that we disagreed on.]

I've come to understand certain passages differently (not to mention those I still don't understand) than I used to over the years initiated by chuch leaders, leading me to a better understanding of the Authority (God's word). But they've been the leaders, not the Authority (capital A).

Two different words and meanings (authority/leader). Related, sure. But different, none the less.

Take authority:
The Biblical meaning of the word has, at its root, authority delegated to leaders.

Yet at some point, their must be some ultimate Authority from which all human delegates derive theirs.

Matthew 21:23-27 (NASB) And after he arrived at the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came up to him while he was teaching, saying, “By what authority are you doing these things? And who gave you this authority?” And Jesus answered and said to them, “I also will ask you one question. If you tell the answer to me, I also will tell you by what authority I am doing these things. From where was the baptism of John—from heaven or from men?” And they began to discuss this among themselves, saying, “If we say ‘From heaven,’ he will say to us, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’ But if we say, ‘From men,’ we are afraid of the crowd, because they all look upon John as a prophet.” And they answered and said to Jesus, “We do not know.” And he said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things. ​

How various denominations (or people) answer these same questions (underlined above) is very telling as to their understanding of God's Word.

If anyone is in a church that claims that its baptism saves men (the chuch's physical baptism), RUN!

 

[Betty]

Evidently, you've made up for lost time.
[and no, not just because we happen to agree on various subjects. I'm sure that if we talked long enough, we'd find some detail that we disagreed on.]

I've come to understand certain passages differently (not to mention those I still don't understand) than I used to over the years initiated by chuch leaders, leading me to a better understanding of the Authority (God's word). But they've been the leaders, not the Authority (capital A).

Two different words and meanings (authority/leader). Related, sure. But different, none the less.

Take authority:
The Biblical meaning of the word has, at its root, authority delegated to leaders.

Yet at some point, their must be some ultimate Authority from which all human delegates derive theirs.

Matthew 21:23-27 (NASB) And after he arrived at the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came up to him while he was teaching, saying, “By what authority are you doing these things? And who gave you this authority?” And Jesus answered and said to them, “I also will ask you one question. If you tell the answer to me, I also will tell you by what authority I am doing these things. From where was the baptism of John—from heaven or from men?” And they began to discuss this among themselves, saying, “If we say ‘From heaven,’ he will say to us, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’ But if we say, ‘From men,’ we are afraid of the crowd, because they all look upon John as a prophet.” And they answered and said to Jesus, “We do not know.” And he said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things. ​

How various denominations (or people) answer these same questions (underlined above) is very telling as to their understanding of God's Word.

If anyone is in a church that claims that its baptism saves men (the chuch's physical baptism), RUN!

I totally agree. And even when we're seeking the truth out in Christ, there's always more seeking to do. There's been times where I say, "thank you I got it!' And He says, "Hold on, there's more."

I also want to make the point that this is exactly what Paul taught. Paul always pointed to Jesus.

Ephesians 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Ephesians 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Ephesians 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

I believe that it wasn't only a teaching, but part of the entire early church! When you get together with others who seek out the truth in Christ and study prayerfully, you can't help but be edified and so, so blessed. That's where the unity of the faith is.

1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

See how Paul who knew that Jesus is our savior, Always pointed to Jesus, never to himself. That didn't change the fact that God used him to form the Christian church, to draw people to HIM (Jesus.) Paul was not only an amazing teacher, but also an amazing example.