Bible Study Sola scripture ?

[GodsGrace]

Let me ask you this(while I sit here waiting to go into my local church).

Do you think these people were chastised by Christ for not being cold or hot because they were walking in truth and were just accidentily missing the mark?

Or do you see that they were off mark because they were walking in their own truth and own way, thinking they knew what the truth was?

The point I was making, the one Christ was saying, is they had one foot in the world thinking of what is good(cool water for the people to drink?), and one foot in the truth of God(hot water flowing from the spring?).

Instead of being led by the Spirit to do the works of God, they decided that because they had received faith and the Spirit, they could walk in their own light and truth. Instead of a natural flow, to use your example, they were diverting the water through their own works.

What's important to understand is they actually thought they were doing the right thing. That's precisely why Christ wrote to them. To tell them He has not cast them off yet and to tell them to return to Him. To turn from their thoughts to His.

You're confusing me Nathan.

You said I was lukewarm.
With one foot in the world and one foot in the spirit.
Although I fail to see what brings you to this conclusion, but no problem...

Then in this post you say:

Instead of being led by the Spirit to do the works of God, they decided that because they had received faith and the Spirit, they could walk in their own light and truth. Instead of a natural flow, to use your example, they were diverting the water through their own works.

You must be intellectually honest. Your statement refers to those I DON'T agree with that make up their own doctrine. Above you're agreeing with me that they shouldn't be walking in their own light and were diverting the water.

So which is it? Make up your mind.
Do we use our own faith and the spirit, walk in our own light and truth, divert the waters,
OR
do we depend on theologians who know the bible really well?

What if I'm depending on myself and I get a weird notion. We have some on this forum like that.......

 

[Betty]

I have to leave for a while...

SOLA does not mean ON OUR OWN.
It means to depend ONLY on scripture.

What you're talking about is SOLO Scriptura, which is not a good idea because it IS studied ON OUR OWN.

so·la 1
(sō′lə)
n.
A plural of solum.
so·la 2
(sō′lə)
adv.
By oneself; alone. Used as a stage direction to a female character

I suppose it's how you look at it. But the word itself implies "alone."

I thought it would help to clear that up....

There's a whole lot there, that couldn't have possibly been read before responding.

There's also an evident difference when one reads the scriptures on their own, or in Christ.

I know an atheist who knows what the scriptures say better than a lot of Christians, but he doesn't have the understanding in Christ. That is obvious.

 

[GodsGrace]

That would really break the hearts of the Numbers Preacher.

Too bad.
I think it's coming.
How about you?

There is too great a divide between Christianity and the secular world.
It was closer till about the 80's, maybe.

There were morally upright persons who, even though they were not Christian, could agree with much of Christian teaching.

Today, it's not like that anymore. Christians are rather disliked because of their views on many topics, as you well know.

So, yes. No more "traditional" Christianity but only true Christianity that is practiced by believers.

 

[GodsGrace]

so·la 1
(sō′lə)
n.
A plural of solum.
so·la 2
(sō′lə)
adv.
By oneself; alone. Used as a stage direction to a female character

I suppose it's how you look at it. But the word itself implies "alone."

I thought it would help to clear that up....

There's a whole lot there, that couldn't have possibly been read before responding.

There's also an evident difference when one reads the scriptures on their own, or in Christ.

I know an atheist who knows what the scriptures say better than a lot of Christians, but he doesn't have the understanding in Christ. That is obvious.

Hi Betty,
I know what SOLA means. Trust me, I know.

Biblically speaking, it does NOT mean alone. ( it means alone in the romance languages )
SOLO with an O at the end is studying ALONE, by oneself.
SOLA with an A at the end means that scripture ONLY has authority.

Here:

What does sola scriptura mean?
The term sola scriptura is from the Latin language meaning "only Scripture" or "Scripture alone." It consists of the words sola, meaning "only," and scriptura, referring to the Bible.

Sola scriptura became popular during the Protestant Reformation as a reaction against some of the practices of the Roman Catholic Church. It was the Reformers' way of saying that the Bible contains everything one needs for salvation and godly living (see 2 Peter 1:3). In addition to the authority of the Bible, the Roman Catholic Church increasingly relied on traditions that had in many ways taken the place of the Bible's teachings. Some of these traditions included prayer to saints or to Mary the mother of Jesus, belief in the Immaculate Conception (the belief that Mary was born without the stain of original sin), indulgences (including required payments to the Church), and the divine authority of the pope.

https://www.compellingtruth.org/sola-scriptura.html

 

[GodsGrace]

Perhaps the problem with the original question is the title itself, "Sola Scripture." What about studying the scriptures in Christ with Christ directing and instructing? That implies relationship, not "sola." or on our own.


Personally, because of the numerous examples in the scriptures, I believe that there is still true discipleship, but it has little to do with being a follower of man. It has everything to do with being a follower of Christ. "Take up your cross and follow me."

Peter ministered, and also demonstrated the Power of Christ in Him. Paul did as well. The POWER of Christ was evident in them.

Interesting that Paul said:

Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Romans 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

Romans 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Romans 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


There's a point in the scriptures where Jesus is speaking to the scribes and pharisees where He says:
Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.


They were making disciples unto themselves.

Do you think this is still happening (in some cases) today.?


Paul always pointed to Christ. In Ephesians 4, Paul speaks of the body of Christ and expounds on Christ being the head of each individual in the body. Thus, all in Christ will speak the same things. He expounds on there being one Lord, one faith and one baptism and, "one God the Father who is above all and through all and in you all." Then he speaks about the different parts of the body, and the gifts given to each for the edifying of one another for the "perfecting of the saints, until all parts of the body come into the unity of the faith..." It's a clear picture of growing and maturing in Christ as individuals and as a body. Paul also gives examples of the way that is not right, not walking in the vanity of our their own minds because of ignorance, having their understanding darkened, and giving their own-selves up to living a life that is not pleasing to God.

Which I would say, is the true job of a Preacher.


Ephesians 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Ephesians 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.


Discipleship has to do with pointing people to Christ, and seeking, knocking and asking HIM for the true revelation that we can only comprehend when the vail is removed from our eyes through Christ. Just like the two disciples on the road to Emmaus, whom, after Jesus broke the bread and blessed it and disappeared from their sight, said, "Did our hearts not burn within us as He opened up the scriptures to us along the way."

If the veil is removed from the eyes of those in Christ, wouldn't that imply that everyone in Christ would see clearly in the scriptures as they seek it out in and with Christ?


There are so many scriptures throughout the word that point to true discipleship.


Psalms 25:4 Shew me thy ways, O LORD; teach me thy paths.


Psalms 25:8 Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.


Psalms 25:9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.


Psalms 25:12 What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.


Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.


True discipleship is being taught and receiving revelation through Christ.


Jesus Himself confirmed this when He said:


Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Matthew 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
And when He said, "...If you continue in My word, you are My disciples indeed, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."


Humility, coming to Him like a child, (That means, letting HIM answer and not jumping to our own conclusion, but waiting on Jesus.) Seeking answers directly from Him, asking Him questions, and continuing in His word are all parts of being a disciple and making disciples.

Jesus taught the disciples these things, the very things they taught. Even after He ascended into heaven, Jesus was still with them and in them, ministering through them, and those who matured in Christ, went on to do the same, always beginning with the remission of sin through repentance, and belief in Christ Jesus.

Those who joined and were in Christ, were expected to mature and have the same relationship in Christ that the very first disciples had. Jesus taught them.

Actually, Betty, I DID read your entire post.
What church does not direct us to Jesus? (unless it's a cult)

I happen to agree with everything you've said.
It's just that it sounds like you're saying that some churches do not direct to Jesus.

 

[Betty]

Hi Betty,
I know what SOLA means. Trust me, I know.

Biblically speaking, it does NOT mean alone. ( it means alone in the romance languages )
SOLO with an O at the end is studying ALONE, by oneself.
SOLA with an A at the end means that scripture ONLY has authority.

Here:

What does sola scriptura mean?
The term sola scriptura is from the Latin language meaning "only Scripture" or "Scripture alone." It consists of the words sola, meaning "only," and scriptura, referring to the Bible.

Sola scriptura became popular during the Protestant Reformation as a reaction against some of the practices of the Roman Catholic Church. It was the Reformers' way of saying that the Bible contains everything one needs for salvation and godly living (see 2 Peter 1:3). In addition to the authority of the Bible, the Roman Catholic Church increasingly relied on traditions that had in many ways taken the place of the Bible's teachings. Some of these traditions included prayer to saints or to Mary the mother of Jesus, belief in the Immaculate Conception (the belief that Mary was born without the stain of original sin), indulgences (including required payments to the Church), and the divine authority of the pope.


https://www.compellingtruth.org/sola-scriptura.html

The very first definition that you posted, "scripture alone." Says exactly what I said.

I'm not sure why this is even being debated.? I simply hoped to clear that up. That's it. We know that studying the scriptures IN Christ is key.

But nonbelievers? Young Christians? Atheists? I simply wanted to clarify.

Without one looking up the defintion of Sola, as you did, most would come to the conclusion that it's "alone," or scripture alone.

 

[Betty]

Actually, Betty, I DID read your entire post.
What church does not direct us to Jesus? (unless it's a cult)

I happen to agree with everything you've said.
It's just that it sounds like you're saying that some churches do not direct to Jesus.

Can you point out where I'm saying that?

I'm simply looking at the scriptures, and honestly I have things to learn on this subject. Because I know that God uses people, He always has, His word gives us numerous examples. I also know that when we seek HIm prayerfully and diligently, even while studying His word, in that relationship with HIM, He answers. I don't think that applied/applies to just a few but to everyone who is in HIM. In other words, you have the same ability in Christ, to seek HIM and to pray for wisdom and understanding as any other true believer.

Plus, how will anyone know who is a true Preacher, or minister, without biblical examples?
I'm not saying any are, or are not. I'm saying shouldn't we recognize the difference? I think that's pretty important.

The gifts given to each member of the body, I don't think they take away from the need for each member to seek answers out in Christ. It also doesn't mean that we can't take council from others, but the bottom line is always God's word is the authority.

Paul and Jesus didn't contradict each other. Paul Pointed to Jesus, and Jesus said to seek, knock and ask.

So they are not opposing each other. I don't see opposition at all in the scriptures. Paul taught what Jesus said.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Too bad.
I think it's coming.
How about you?

There is too great a divide between Christianity and the secular world.
It was closer till about the 80's, maybe.

There were morally upright persons who, even though they were not Christian, could agree with much of Christian teaching.

Today, it's not like that anymore. Christians are rather disliked because of their views on many topics, as you well know.

So, yes. No more "traditional" Christianity but only true Christianity that is practiced by believers.

I whole heartedly agree that the falling away is close. I see it beginning in the Churches. Outside it is very difficult to withstand the insults and inside it is difficult to find commitment. Real, devoted, Christianity is an endangered faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

I whole heartedly agree that the falling away is close. I see it beginning in the Churches. Outside it is very difficult to withstand the insults and inside it is difficult to find commitment. Real, devoted, Christianity is an endangered faith.

Why though?
What's changed?
We depend more on money, education, self-worth?
Maybe people don' "need" God anymore?
Maybe all these liberal professors in colleges that teach the bible like LITERATURE. This is upsetting to me.
Maybe a combination of everything.
Morals have changed. Everything is accepted.
It gets me down. I try not to think about it too much.

 

[GodsGrace]

Perhaps the problem with the original question is the title itself, "Sola Scripture." What about studying the scriptures in Christ with Christ directing and instructing? That implies relationship, not "sola." or on our own.

Betty, you brought up two things in your response to me.
1. Sola Scriptura
Up above you state that it implies relationship, not "sola" or on our own.
I was attempting to point out to you that sola scriptura doen not mean "on our own".
It means that we depend on scripture alone. When we study scripture "on our own" it is called SOLO scriptura. But enough of that.

2. Then you asked me where in your post did you say that some churches do not bring to Jesus.
I thought this was the goal of every church and you SEEM to be implying that it's not.

I'll highlight and change to blue where I believe you were saying this.

Personally, because of the numerous examples in the scriptures, I believe that there is still true discipleship, but it has little to do with being a follower of man. It has everything to do with being a follower of Christ. "Take up your cross and follow me."

Peter ministered, and also demonstrated the Power of Christ in Him. Paul did as well. The POWER of Christ was evident in them.

Interesting that Paul said:

Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Romans 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

Romans 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Romans 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


There's a point in the scriptures where Jesus is speaking to the scribes and pharisees where He says:
Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.


They were making disciples unto themselves.

Do you think this is still happening (in some cases) today.?


Paul always pointed to Christ. In Ephesians 4, Paul speaks of the body of Christ and expounds on Christ being the head of each individual in the body. Thus, all in Christ will speak the same things. He expounds on there being one Lord, one faith and one baptism and, "one God the Father who is above all and through all and in you all." Then he speaks about the different parts of the body, and the gifts given to each for the edifying of one another for the "perfecting of the saints, until all parts of the body come into the unity of the faith..." It's a clear picture of growing and maturing in Christ as individuals and as a body. Paul also gives examples of the way that is not right, not walking in the vanity of our their own minds because of ignorance, having their understanding darkened, and giving their own-selves up to living a life that is not pleasing to God.

Which I would say, is the true job of a Preacher.

(Do you mean by this that some preachers DO NOT do their job of leading people to Christ?)


Ephesians 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Ephesians 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.


Discipleship has to do with pointing people to Christ, and seeking, knocking and asking HIM for the true revelation that we can only comprehend when the vail is removed from our eyes through Christ. Just like the two disciples on the road to Emmaus, whom, after Jesus broke the bread and blessed it and disappeared from their sight, said, "Did our hearts not burn within us as He opened up the scriptures to us along the way."

If the veil is removed from the eyes of those in Christ, wouldn't that imply that everyone in Christ would see clearly in the scriptures as they seek it out in and with Christ?


There are so many scriptures throughout the word that point to true discipleship.


Psalms 25:4 Shew me thy ways, O LORD; teach me thy paths.


Psalms 25:8 Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.


Psalms 25:9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.


Psalms 25:12 What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.


Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.


True discipleship is being taught and receiving revelation through Christ.


Jesus Himself confirmed this when He said:


Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Matthew 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
And when He said, "...If you continue in My word, you are My disciples indeed, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."


Humility, coming to Him like a child, (That means, letting HIM answer and not jumping to our own conclusion, but waiting on Jesus.) Seeking answers directly from Him, asking Him questions, and continuing in His word are all parts of being a disciple and making disciples.

Jesus taught the disciples these things, the very things they taught. Even after He ascended into heaven, Jesus was still with them and in them, ministering through them, and those who matured in Christ, went on to do the same, always beginning with the remission of sin through repentance, and belief in Christ Jesus.

Those who joined and were in Christ, were expected to mature and have the same relationship in Christ that the very first disciples had. Jesus taught them.

 

[Betty]

Why though?
What's changed?
We depend more on money, education, self-worth?
Maybe people don' "need" God anymore?
Maybe all these liberal professors in colleges that teach the bible like LITERATURE. This is upsetting to me.
Maybe a combination of everything.
Morals have changed. Everything is accepted.
It gets me down. I try not to think about it too much.

Who would have thought that all of these kind of things would be happening just twenty years ago.

There's was a story on the news a few nights ago,about a poll that stated that 20% of millennials associate themselves with the LGBT community.

That is staggering.

 

[Betty]

Wondering,

I didn't point out a single church or denomination in the post.

I do, however know that there are warnings, and Paul even warned about these things in the early church.
Shouldn't we as believers be aware? To mention these and showing the scriptures about these things isn't accusing any church, we all should use discernment.

 

[GodsGrace]

Who would have thought that all of these kind of things would be happening just twenty years ago.

There's was a story on the news a few nights ago,about a poll that stated that 20% of millennials associate themselves with the LGBT community.

That is staggering.

It is.
Considering that the last poll I know of stated that only 1% of the U.S.population is gay.

This is what I like to say:
Nothing has changed.
Nothing is new under the sun.
The difference is that TODAY, everything is ACCEPTED.

It began in the 60's with the freedom movement. Everyone wanted to be free. A lie straight from the deceiver.

Then those persons had kids and then they had kids.
Did things becme more consservative? No. They became more liberal.
And here we are...
Free, but slaves.

 

[GodsGrace]

Wondering,

I didn't point out a single church or denomination in the post.

I do, however know that there are warnings, and Paul even warned about these things in the early church.

Shouldn't we be aware of these things?

Betty,
Misunderstanding.
I didn't mean that you pointed out a church.
But that some preachers don't point to Jesus and I was ASKING in what possible denomination could this be happening.

I think that all denominations point to Jesus. It might not be that RIGHT Jesus, but it is Him nonetheless.
And God will work through anything...

 

[Betty]

Betty,
Misunderstanding.
I didn't mean that you pointed out a church.
But that some preachers don't point to Jesus and I was ASKING in what possible denomination could this be happening.

I think that all denominations point to Jesus. It might not be that RIGHT Jesus, but it is Him nonetheless.
And God will work through anything...

That's another reason to study prayerfully for sure. If we are going to dedicate our lives in Christ, we should definitely know what, " a different Jesus," means.

Editing this because I thought of a few more.

I've seen this a few times personally, with one it wasn't a Christian, it came from an Islamic man, and actually a few Christians agreed with him. Another time it was from a new age person, who claimed that everyone is Christ, and actually made reference to scriptures to try to push this idea.

The devil may know what the scriptures say, but I say, know them better!

The Islamic man stated that he believed in Jesus, and that Islam teaches Jesus.

But they do not teach the real Jesus, they do not believe that He died for their sins. Their emphasis is on their prophet, and they see Jesus as simply being another prophet, they do not acknowledge Jesus as being the son of God.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Why though?
What's changed?
We depend more on money, education, self-worth?
Maybe people don' "need" God anymore?
Maybe all these liberal professors in colleges that teach the bible like LITERATURE. This is upsetting to me.
Maybe a combination of everything.
Morals have changed. Everything is accepted.
It gets me down. I try not to think about it too much.

All of the above. When I left the United States, women were prescious but when I returned six years later, they were sex toys and that has not changed yet. The world has become a nasty place to live and people tell me all the time that things are getting better and better... and I ask them, where?

 

[GodsGrace]

That's another reason to study prayerfully for sure. If we are going to dedicate our lives in Christ, we should definitely know what, " a different Jesus," means.

Editing this because I thought of a few more.

I've seen this a few times personally, with one it wasn't a Christian, it came from an Islamic man, and actually a few Christians agreed with him. Another time it was from a new age person, who claimed that everyone is Christ, and actually made reference to scriptures to try to push this idea.

The devil may know what the scriptures say, but I say, know them better!

The Islamic man stated that he believed in Jesus, and that Islam teaches Jesus.

But they do not teach the real Jesus, they do not believe that He died for their sins. Their emphasis is on their prophet, and they see Jesus as simply being another prophet, they do not acknowledge Jesus as being the son of God.

Ah yes. We must know all the terms now.
By not the right Jesus I meant that not all churches teach the same doctrine.
Some say that Jesus did not teach works.
Some say that Jesus taught eternal security.
Some teach that you MUST be baptized to be saved.
These differences can be taught but one could still come to salvation.

You're speaking about a DIFFERENT Jesus.
Maybe it means the same thing.
One must believe Jesus is God.
That He died for our sins.
That He freed us from slavery to sin and death.
That He was resurrected on the 3rd day.

Anything else is a different Jesus.
And is of no effect.
Agreed.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Who would have thought that all of these kind of things would be happening just twenty years ago.

There's was a story on the news a few nights ago,about a poll that stated that 20% of millennials associate themselves with the LGBT community.

That is staggering.

I would not believe everything I read in the LSM; remember they push the leftist progressive agenda. They would love to have people believe that the 'lgbt community" exceeds less than 2% of the population.......

 

[Nathan]

Perhaps the problem with the original question is the title itself, "Sola Scripture." What about studying the scriptures in Christ with Christ directing and instructing? That implies relationship, not "sola." or on our own.


Personally, because of the numerous examples in the scriptures, I believe that there is still true discipleship, but it has little to do with being a follower of man. It has everything to do with being a follower of Christ. "Take up your cross and follow me."

Peter ministered, and also demonstrated the Power of Christ in Him. Paul did as well. The POWER of Christ was evident in them.

Interesting that Paul said:

Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Romans 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

Romans 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Romans 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


There's a point in the scriptures where Jesus is speaking to the scribes and pharisees where He says:
Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.


They were making disciples unto themselves.

Do you think this is still happening (in some cases) today.?


Paul always pointed to Christ. In Ephesians 4, Paul speaks of the body of Christ and expounds on Christ being the head of each individual in the body. Thus, all in Christ will speak the same things. He expounds on there being one Lord, one faith and one baptism and, "one God the Father who is above all and through all and in you all." Then he speaks about the different parts of the body, and the gifts given to each for the edifying of one another for the "perfecting of the saints, until all parts of the body come into the unity of the faith..." It's a clear picture of growing and maturing in Christ as individuals and as a body. Paul also gives examples of the way that is not right, not walking in the vanity of our their own minds because of ignorance, having their understanding darkened, and giving their own-selves up to living a life that is not pleasing to God.

Which I would say, is the true job of a Preacher.


Ephesians 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Ephesians 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.


Discipleship has to do with pointing people to Christ, and seeking, knocking and asking HIM for the true revelation that we can only comprehend when the vail is removed from our eyes through Christ. Just like the two disciples on the road to Emmaus, whom, after Jesus broke the bread and blessed it and disappeared from their sight, said, "Did our hearts not burn within us as He opened up the scriptures to us along the way."

If the veil is removed from the eyes of those in Christ, wouldn't that imply that everyone in Christ would see clearly in the scriptures as they seek it out in and with Christ?


There are so many scriptures throughout the word that point to true discipleship.


Psalms 25:4 Shew me thy ways, O LORD; teach me thy paths.


Psalms 25:8 Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.


Psalms 25:9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.


Psalms 25:12 What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.


Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.


True discipleship is being taught and receiving revelation through Christ.


Jesus Himself confirmed this when He said:


Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Matthew 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
And when He said, "...If you continue in My word, you are My disciples indeed, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."


Humility, coming to Him like a child, (That means, letting HIM answer and not jumping to our own conclusion, but waiting on Jesus.) Seeking answers directly from Him, asking Him questions, and continuing in His word are all parts of being a disciple and making disciples.

Jesus taught the disciples these things, the very things they taught. Even after He ascended into heaven, Jesus was still with them and in them, ministering through them, and those who matured in Christ, went on to do the same, always beginning with the remission of sin through repentance, and belief in Christ Jesus.

Those who joined and were in Christ, were expected to mature and have the same relationship in Christ that the very first disciples had. Jesus taught them.

I'm so glad to hear this. You have no idea.

So much of discipleship is placed on the shoulders of men and not the Spirit in man.

How many people think that discipline someone else means they have to teach them? Not so, discipleship is simply servant hood. To come along someone else and help them see who the one discipling really is. It may seem like we disciple, but it's actually Christ. He is the teacher. If a man becomes a disciple of another man, then he is that mans disciple - not Christs. This is where divisions happen.

 

[Nathan]

Nathan,
How does the RCC lead anyone astray?
Be specific.
I never did understand this.

Because you or I may not agree with some doctrine they teach, 90% of it is correct, just like any other denomination.

What could be so disasterous??

You answered your own question. If I gave you a glass of water and told you it's 99% water and 1% deadly poison - would you drink it? Would you want to drink it?