Bible Study Sola scripture ?

[Nathan]

You're confusing me Nathan.

You said I was lukewarm.
With one foot in the world and one foot in the spirit.
Although I fail to see what brings you to this conclusion, but no problem...

Then in this post you say:

Instead of being led by the Spirit to do the works of God, they decided that because they had received faith and the Spirit, they could walk in their own light and truth. Instead of a natural flow, to use your example, they were diverting the water through their own works.

You must be intellectually honest. Your statement refers to those I DON'T agree with that make up their own doctrine. Above you're agreeing with me that they shouldn't be walking in their own light and were diverting the water.

So which is it? Make up your mind.
Do we use our own faith and the spirit, walk in our own light and truth, divert the waters,
OR
do we depend on theologians who know the bible really well?

What if I'm depending on myself and I get a weird notion. We have some on this forum like that.......

I never said you were lukewarm. I promise. I cannot make that decision. I do not know you well enough.

I would say we do neither of what you suggested. What we should do is walk in the faith of Christ(not our own), walk in His Spirit(not our own), and walk in His light(not our own). Depending on His truth and His words - not theologians.

 

[JohnDB]

OK,
I think that you are confused...

Ah, what you describe in the last half of your post is classic lukewarm Christianity.

I assure you I do not sit at home drinking my own koolaide.

You answered your own question. If I gave you a glass of water and told you it's 99% water and 1% deadly poison - would you drink it? Would you want to drink it?

It was not directed to you. I don't know your heart. I can say that whoever is lukewarm when He returns will be spit out.

From these answers to wondering and myself you seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth.
First you claim she is lukewarm (even though she isn't and it's the wrong use of the metaphor and nothing like what God intended with it) and then deny you intended it towards her even though you did direct it towards her.

Then when asked about going to church you claim that the 1%poison at church is bad and people shouldn't go but then deny that you are sitting at home drinking your own koolaide...

So what exactly are you promoting here other than complete confusion?

 

[joseph lentz]

I have now at 87 been to a few and various bible study groups and havoue found all teach there own interpretations and not really what the Bible teaches or Jesus taught

How can you tell it's not what the Bible or Jesus teaches?That's a very bold and proud statement.For you to know that would single you out as the only one who knows the scripture and fully understands it. For the others to be wrong,you must be the only one right. Maybe we should be worshiping you.

 

[Betty]

I'm so glad to hear this. You have no idea.

So much of discipleship is placed on the shoulders of men and not the Spirit in man.

How many people think that discipline someone else means they have to teach them? Not so, discipleship is simply servant hood. To come along someone else and help them see who the one discipling really is. It may seem like we disciple, but it's actually Christ. He is the teacher. If a man becomes a disciple of another man, then he is that mans disciple - not Christs. This is where divisions happen.

I was just thinking about something that Jesus said in Revelations.

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

The word "hearing," there reminds of Amos 8 about the "famine of hearing the word." I'd like to prayerfully search this out for more understanding. Because it says "If any man hears my voice," emphasizing this.

Considering all of the mentions and applications of foods within the scriptures, and the table that we are seated at....I believe, will make the "sup,' part of the revelation verse more clear.

It's actually really amazing to think about, and to see in the scriptures.

We're all servants, serving Jesus, at His leading. Maybe we can start a study on that on it's own thread. Either you can, or can start it later this evening.

When we sit down at the dinner table with our families, there's always discussion right?

 

[Betty]

It is.
Considering that the last poll I know of stated that only 1% of the U.S.population is gay.

This is what I like to say:
Nothing has changed.
Nothing is new under the sun.
The difference is that TODAY, everything is ACCEPTED.

It began in the 60's with the freedom movement. Everyone wanted to be free. A lie straight from the deceiver.

Then those persons had kids and then they had kids.
Did things becme more consservative? No. They became more liberal.
And here we are...
Free, but slaves.

Do you think that this has anything to do with leaven, and is the world effected by leaven or just believers? I'm asking because I don't think that Sodom and Gomorrah was always as corrupt as they were when they were destroyed. It seems there was compromise, and the more compromise that entered in and became acceptable the more corrupt the people became.

Even with Noah, they reached a point where everything was destroyed, other than eight souls and the animals on the ark.

It seems that leaven affects everything. Not just believers.

I was very young during the seventies, I can only relate this to my own life, I really didn't know much about what was going on during that time, and things are a lot different today than when I was a kid.

I took a course in college on generational differences, and it does show that different generations are comparable to past generations. The next generation after the millennials (generation Z,) are supposed to be a lot like the "greatest generation." World was 1 vets.

But from a biblical standpoint, I sort see a lot of what's happening being tied to leaven and compromise. Plus, the book of revelation does tell us that that things get very corrupt. Jesus even said that hearts of many would grow cold because iniquity will abound.

 

[Nathan]

OK,
I think that you are confused...







From these answers to wondering and myself you seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth.
First you claim she is lukewarm (even though she isn't and it's the wrong use of the metaphor and nothing like what God intended with it) and then deny you intended it towards her even though you did direct it towards her.

Then when asked about going to church you claim that the 1%poison at church is bad and people shouldn't go but then deny that you are sitting at home drinking your own koolaide...

So what exactly are you promoting here other than complete confusion?

Interesting. I did not say she was lukewarm(for the 3rd time?), I said what she described was lukewarm. A person can describe something without being it, I would think.

Secondly, she was saying that the RCC was 90% 'good' teaching, and I simply indicated that if a person gave me a glass of water with 99% pure water, but 1% poison, I would not want to drink it.

CE was talking about joining a church that teaches some very bad doctrine. It is like drinking poison. Why join yourself to something false?

Thirdly, I'm not promoting anything than 100% Christianity, which is 100% Christ following. You can do that wherever you are, you don't have to join a organization to follow Christ.

 

[joseph lentz]

Hi Betty,
Wouldn't the world its' self be what is considered as leaven?

 

[Nathan]

I was just thinking about something that Jesus said in Revelations.

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

The word "hearing," there reminds of Amos 8 about the "famine of hearing the word." I'd like to prayerfully search this out for more understanding. Because it says "If any man hears my voice," emphasizing this.

Considering all of the mentions and applications of foods within the scriptures, and the table that we are seated at....I believe, will make the "sup,' part of the revelation verse more clear.

It's actually really amazing to think about, and to see in the scriptures.

We're all servants, serving Jesus, at His leading. Maybe we can start a study on that on it's own thread. Either you can, or can start it later this evening.

When we sit down at the dinner table with our families, there's always discussion right?

That would be excellent. Why don't you start it.

Think also of the implications of the last supper. Communion. So many think that there is something magical in the physical bread at communion not realizing the full implications Christ was putting forth.

 

[Betty]

Hi Betty,
Wouldn't the world its' self be what is considered as leaven?

The word itself is not leaven. The scriptures tell us what it is, and it does involve compromise.

Matthew 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Here's one form.
Luke 12:1 In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

This is one part of what leaven is.

Leaven causes dough to puff up and rise, and can be associated with pride, or lifting up oneself.. Paul even uses those very words in the same passage where he speaks of leaven and compromise, "fornication among them.".

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1 Corinthians 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1 Corinthians 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

There's a whole lot in the scriptures that show us exactly what leaven is.

One more.

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.

Notice the reason Herod died?

Acts 12:
21 And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne, and made an oration unto them.

22 And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man.

23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

There's a lot within the scriptures that tell us what it is. It's not just one thing.

 

[Betty]

That would be excellent. Why don't you start it.

Think also of the implications of the last supper. Communion. So many think that there is something magical in the physical bread at communion not realizing the full implications Christ was putting forth.

Amen Nathan, good thoughts! I'll start it later this evening.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Anyone interested in the OP?

 

[Jim Parker]

The ones who really know their faith are rather horrified.

And rightfully so.
My experience with the "average", "run of the mill" RC is that they do not know their faith which condition, joined with a desire to be pleasing to God who is loving and merciful, opens them to confusing efforts to bring about a secular utopia (communism) with Jesus' teachings to be merciful.
That may be the basis for the "liberation theology" which is widely accepted in the area from which Francis was called. (Speculation on my part)

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

He has promised to strike the man with the worst plagues that can be suffered from His had if he or she adds or takes away a single word from the scriptures.

Yeah. I've heard that before.

Rev 22:18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add[f to him the plagues that are written in this book;

That verse refers specifically to the prophesies in the Revelation and to no other book of the Bible.

Deu 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
and
Deu 12:32 Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.

Both theses verses refer to the commands of the book of Deuteronomy and not to the rest of the Bible. (Which would not be finished for another 1100 years.)

The idea that adding or removing anything to the Bible would bring the curses is regularly misapplied by Protestants as an excuse to condemn Catholics whom they accuse of "adding" the deuterocanonical books which the Protestants decided to remove from their Bibles in the 1800's.
Heard it. Got the t-shirt.

And never forget the Holy Spirit in us, His not stupid, He knows what is true and pure.

That is an absolute truth. Amen and Amen!
And I have never said otherwise.
But I have expressed my astonishment at the utter nonsense that people insist the Holy Spirit has revealed to them.
The Holy Spirit is omniscient God.
Some people are as dumb as a bag of hammers and should not be allowed to attempt to operate a Bible without adult supervision.

That's what I was talking about and I know you have seen some of that nonsense in every Christian forum.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

We take the bible to be our authority. A supreme authority is necessary and we all must agree that it has to be the bible. The ECF had the letters being circulated and based their theology on those and on writings of previous fathers, then, finally, the bible (N.T.) was available and we can now refer to that.

The ECF quoted the gospels and letters extensively and recognized in them the revealed word of God.
Their letters, books, sermons, etc. provide for us the best interpretations and commentaries of those documents.
When Paul said that the Church was the ground and pillar of truth, he was referring to the deposit of teaching held by the apostles and their disciples.

There is good reason for that; the people to whom the teaching of the apostles were entrusted were those whose life work is the the preaching of the scripture. They are the elders (presbuteroi) and overseers (episkopoi) of the church. The apostles ordained those people in the churches they established to protect and transmit the Gospel. That was their full-time calling. The average believer was not able to devote all his time to the study of the scripture and the apostolic tradition (or "teaching"), they had to make a living to support their families.

Today, "Sola Scriptura" is often cited as support for what you have accurately labeled "SOLO" Scriptura. Too often it is the basis for people who have not been called or trained to take on such work yet who, in their arrogance (the presumption that they are sufficiently qualified without any special training or even a decent command of the English language!) assume they are qualified to "correct" 2000 years of the work of those whom God actually DID call to be teachers. (Eph 4:11ff)

They ignore the warning: (Jas 3:1) Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness.



iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

No single man can have a perfect understanding of God.

Funny, there seem to be quite a few who post the really, real, absolute and PERFECT truth of God in every Christian forum but, who, for the life of me, seem to be total crackpots.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Yeah. I've heard that before.

Rev 22:18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add[f to him the plagues that are written in this book;

That verse refers specifically to the prophesies in the Revelation and to no other book of the Bible.

Deu 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
and
Deu 12:32 Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.

Both theses verses refer to the commands of the book of Deuteronomy and not to the rest of the Bible. (Which would not be finished for another 1100 years.)

The idea that adding or removing anything to the Bible would bring the curses is regularly misapplied by Protestants as an excuse to condemn Catholics whom they accuse of "adding" the deuterocanonical books which the Protestants decided to remove from their Bibles in the 1800's.
Heard it. Got the t-shirt.

That is an absolute truth. Amen and Amen!
And I have never said otherwise.
But I have expressed my astonishment at the utter nonsense that people insist the Holy Spirit has revealed to them.
The Holy Spirit is omniscient God.
Some people are as dumb as a bag of hammers and should not be allowed to attempt to operate a Bible without adult supervision.

That's what I was talking about and I know you have seen some of that nonsense in every Christian forum.

iakov the fool

We will need to agree to disagree because there are at least two more instances in the Old Testament and from just after my first read I noticed that God did not have a highlighter and I notice that to highlight certain things, God repeats or emphasizes them by repeating them

Additionally, the God we serve is limitless in ability and power and as per scripture wants none to go to Hell. God, being infinite in wisdom and loving His Creation so much He sent His son to pay he cost for our sins, just to restore the Fellowship He ebjoyed with Adam, in the Garden, does not sound weak enough to let the Word be perverted.

So we will disagfree on this point.

 

[civilwarbuff]

It seems twink has abandoned his thread and just left us to fight amgonst ourselves.....

 

[Jim Parker]

We will need to agree to disagree because there are at least two more instances in the Old Testament

Please cite them.

God repeats or emphasizes them by repeating them

Sometimes He does. That does not mean that a warning about a specific book applied to the entire Bible.

Additionally, the God we serve is limitless in ability and power ..... does not sound weak enough to let the Word be perverted.

Every translation of the Bible distorts the original meaning to some extent because the original languages carried with them the nuances and subtleties of the original language spoken in the contemporary culture which 99%+ of modern readers have not the first clue.
So, every version is a perversion that is further perverted by the inept attempts of people who are deficient in the language of their favorite versions to interpret.

 

[JohnDB]

Interesting. I did not say she was lukewarm(for the 3rd time?), I said what she described was lukewarm. A person can describe something without being it, I would think.

Well that's exactly what we call quivocating. Usually said as talking out both sides of your mouth. If you didn't mean it that way you should have never said it. But the obvious truth is that you did intend it to sting her feelings. Jesus said something about "good trees and bad fruit and out of the heart"...Pssst it's in Luke.

Secondly, she was saying that the RCC was 90% 'good' teaching, and I simply indicated that if a person gave me a glass of water with 99% pure water, but 1% poison, I would not want to drink it.

Well that's because you have no clue as to what the Catholic Church in other countries is like. I was astonished myself. It's almost Protestant in form and function. And if I was living in Europe and had no access to a Protestant church I would go to a Catholic Church and be just fine. I don't have such animosity towards those who love Jesus just a bit different than I. In fact John had something to say about that.

CE was talking about joining a church that teaches some very bad doctrine. It is like drinking poison. Why join yourself to something false?

Not exactly true. He has been here for a good bit. We know him. He is very shy and careful. He might be considering it but my opinion is that he likely won't.

Thirdly, I'm not promoting anything than 100% Christianity, which is 100% Christ following. You can do that wherever you are, you don't have to join a organization to follow Christ.

Well we haven't suggested joining an organization. We have been saying the same things that you have been ignoring all along. That joining hands in fellowship and prayer with other believers is essential and commanded by Jesus.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Well that's exactly what we call quivocating. Usually said as talking out both sides of your mouth. If you didn't mean it that way you should have never said it. But the obvious truth is that you did intend it to sting her feelings. Jesus said something about "good trees and bad fruit and out of the heart"...Pssst it's in Luke.



Well that's because you have no clue as to what the Catholic Church in other countries is like. I was astonished myself. It's almost Protestant in form and function. And if I was living in Europe and had no access to a Protestant church I would go to a Catholic Church and be just fine. I don't have such animosity towards those who love Jesus just a bit different than I. In fact John had something to say about that.

Not exactly true. He has been here for a good bit. We know him. He is very shy and careful. He might be considering it but my opinion is that he likely won't.


Well we haven't suggested joining an organization. We have been saying the same things that you have been ignoring all along. That joining hands in fellowship and prayer with other believers is essential and commanded by Jesus.

Maybe we should stop attacking each other and focus on what twink has said in the OP?