Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

[Truthfrees]

you wont get many likes with this post lol BTW i agree with it %100

actually i think we are pretty evenly split in numbers between the 2 povs -

1. about 50% think blatant unregenerate behavior means the person is not yet a christian - and has never yet become regenerate - aka never was saved - still is lost and needing salvation

2. about 50% think unregenerate behavior will cause a person to become unregenerate - aka lose salvation - aka become unsaved

then there is an alleged 3rd pov which no one here seems to accept that a person can behave as unregenerate as they wish and that is ok with God

i'm not sure what more can be said - i honestly do not agree with #2 - it makes no sense to me that a new creation can become an old creation AGAIN -

imo the scriptures very nicely point to those who love to sin never were saved no matter how christian they pretend/appear to be

scriptures also point to those who sin but hate their sin are born again and in need of help to overcome a sin/bondage/addiction/etc

i appreciate the posts you made - i agree with what you and a few others have been saying - as per #1

i see that those who interpret scripture the #2 way are adamant that people can lose their salvation - i have a question for them - how many times can a person lose their salvation and get born again? - can a person get saved - lose their salvation - and then get saved again? - or are they forever lost? - if so why? - what if they genuinely repent of their unregenerate behavior and want back into the family of God? - would God let them back in? - if not why not? -imo #2 has a whole world of strange permutations that #1 doesn't

 

[JLB]

yes those not saved lost does not necessary mean with out God in this parable . to be honest with you the words eternal security osas is not in the Bible.....nor is the words lose your salvation .

With the Shepherd and the flock of justified ones represent a person who is saved; found


Separated from the Shepherd and His flock of justified ones ; lost


Do the lost need salvation?


Yes or No



JLB

 

[JLB]

i'm not sure what more can be said - i honestly do not agree with #2 - it makes no sense to me that a new creation can become an old creation AGAIN -

Have you ever heard anyone say a new creation can become an old creation again.


That’s a false narrative.

That’s a fallacy.



JLB

 

[JLB]

actually i think we are pretty evenly split in numbers between the 2 povs -

1. about 50% think blatant unregenerate behavior means the person is not yet a christian - and has never yet become regenerate - aka never was saved - still is lost and needing salvation

2. about 50% think unregenerate behavior will cause a person to become unregenerate - aka lose salvation - aka become unsaved

then there is an alleged 3rd pov which no one here seems to accept that a person can behave as unregenerate as they wish and that is ok with God

i'm not sure what more can be said - i honestly do not agree with #2 - it makes no sense to me that a new creation can become an old creation AGAIN -

imo the scriptures very nicely point to those who love to sin never were saved no matter how christian they pretend/appear to be

scriptures also point to those who sin but hate their sin are born again and in need of help to overcome a sin/bondage/addiction/etc

i appreciate the posts you made - i agree with what you and a few others have been saying - as per #1

i see that those who interpret scripture the #2 way are adamant that people can lose their salvation - i have a question for them - how many times can a person lose their salvation and get born again? - can a person get saved - lose their salvation - and then get saved again? - or are the forever lost? - if so why? - what if they genuinely repent of their unregenerate behavior and want back into the family of God? - would God let them back in? - if not why not? -imo #2 has a whole world of strange permutations that #1 doesn't

If you want to be honest about the topic of this discussion then ask yourself this.


Does the scripture teach us that a son of God can become lost?



JLB

 

[Edward]

1 John 1:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all
1 John 3:5-7 King James Version (KJV)
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth {practices } sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
2 Corinthians 5
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
i am no longer the man i use to be i have been justified <not guilty > declared righteous < just as if i had never sinned> if you want to be the old man/sinner so be it

I like those NT references you posted Brother. and the OT is replete with examples and instruction on how we should live and carry ourselves. I know people usually like to read the bible promises but the Lord's commandments are even as much if not more important. Your post reminded me of a scripture I was reading today, in Joshua...

Joshua 1:8-9
8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.../

The book of the law is the Torah, right? That's good reading and instruction and absolutely applies to all of us every bit as much as it did to those in biblical times. And the proof of that is indeed in the NT itself:

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.../

And remember, this was written before the NT even existed yet. That's all they had then was the Torah.

Proverbs is another good instructional book for us.

 

[JLB]

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:10-20


A brother who wanders from the truth is a sinner.


Same thing Jesus said.




JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

Have you ever heard anyone say a new creation can become an old creation again.

That’s a false narrative.

That’s a fallacy.

JLB

then what is a person who loses his salvation? - a saved person is a new creation - what is a person who loses his salvation? - he can no longer be a new creation - so what is he? - the Holy Spirit can no longer live in him so the new creation nature can no longer exist in that lost person who lost his salvation

 

[Truthfrees]

If you want to be honest about the topic of this discussion then ask yourself this.

Does the scripture teach us that a son of God can become lost?

JLB

scripture does not say that a son of God can lose his salvation - we are discussing losing salvation - so there needs to be a scripture that says lose salvation

now if you want to discuss "lost" and "not lose salvation" then let's do that in a different thread

 

[MarkT]

Aren't we all sinners?

In the last judgement scene, is it the sheep who inherit the kingdom of heaven or is it the goats?

Sheep have a Shepherd. Sometimes sheep get lost. Sometimes they return, sometimes they don't. (e.g. Judas Iscariot)

This is not about sheep getting lost. The parable says the sheep was lost, and then he was found. It doesn't say anything about becoming lost after being found.

So after finding his sheep, does the shepherd lose him again? No.

Psalm 23:1-3
23 The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want;
2 he makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters;[a]
3 he restores my soul.[b]
He leads me in paths of righteousness[c]
for his name’s sake.

 

[JLB]

then what is a person who loses his salvation? -

I don’t use the phrase lose salvation.

I say what the Bible says.

The person becomes lost.


JLB

 

[JLB]

scripture does not say that a son of God can lose his salvation

Remember you are the one using the phrase
“lose their salvation”, not me.


In the teaching about the lost sheep, do the sheep represent the Lord’s people or the devils?



JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

I don’t use the phrase lose salvation.

I say what the Bible says.

The person becomes lost.


JLB

well this thread is about losing salvation - and that is what i have been discussing

and those discussing OSAS vs OSNAS are also discussing losing salvation

so then we are discussing 2 different topics in this thread i guess

 

[JLB]

scripture does not say that a son of God can lose his salvation - we are discussing losing salvation - so there needs to be a scripture that says lose salvation

now if you want to discuss "lost" and "not lose salvation" then let's do that in a different thread

In the teaching from James, does the brethren refer to the Lord’s people or the devils?


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20



JLB

 

[JLB]

well this thread is about losing salvation

Ok. Does the Bible use the term lose salvation?

Or does the Bible teach us that the Lord’s people can become lost?


JLB

 

[JLB]

well this thread is about losing salvation - and that is what i have been discussing

and those discussing OSAS vs OSNAS are also discussing losing salvation

so then we are discussing 2 different topics in this thread i guess

Since their is so much controversy, why not just stick to biblical words and terms ?

Let’s rally around the truth of the scriptures, so we can all speak and believe and practice the truth.


Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Corinthians 1:10



JLB

 

[JLB]

so then we are discussing 2 different topics in this thread i guess

Probably more.


Most don’t understand that if you have faith for something, then by definition, you have the hope of obtaining that thing, that is not seen.


That’s why it’s so important to teach people to continue in the faith so that at the end of their faith they can receive the salvation of their soul that they have faith for.


strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” Acts 14:22


Those who promote false doctrine can cause a person to depart from the faith.


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1


How can a person receive the salvation of their soul at the end of their faith, if they depart from their faith?

• receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

In the teaching from James, does the brethren refer to the Lord’s people or the devils?

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

JLB

if you are discussing something different than losing salvation as per the op of this thread then i will pass right now - my mind and focus is on discussing the truth of whether or not someone can lose their salvation as the op of this thread claims

i'm not sure that i care about being lost and found again - that doesn't scare anyone to be lost and found again - that is a happy truth that blesses people

but the theology that someone can lose their salvation scares many people - that is the topic i am interested in discussing -

because imo it is a wrong theology to say that someone who is born again can lose their salvation - psych wards are full of people who think they have committed the unpardonable sin and are going to hell - this doctrine destroys the lives of people who have a sensitive conscience - they are scared out of their minds by the thought they have committed the unpardonable sin and are doomed to hell

those who love to sin don't have a conscience - they couldn't care less about heaven or hell - they just like sinning - losing their salvation is not an issue to them - they are the ones who use the grace of God as a licence to sin

 

[Truthfrees]

Since their is so much controversy, why not just stick to biblical words and terms ?

Let’s rally around the truth of the scriptures, so we can all speak and believe and practice the truth.

amen - but the op made a claim in the title of this thread and the op text that needs addressing - and that is the reason i and others are trying to prove that no one can lose their salvation

your happy topic of the lost being found - and turning a sinner away from sin and onto truth is a very good topic for a thread - if you start a happy thread about that i will join you in proving you are right that it is a good thing to find the lost ones and turn them to the truth and away from sin

 

[JLB]

if you are discussing something different than losing salvation as per the op of this thread then i will pass right now - my mind and focus is on discussing the truth of whether or not someone can lose their salvation as the op of this thread claims

The phrase Paul uses for losing your salvation is
“Will not inherit the kingdom of God.”


Paul tells them the way to avoid practicing the works of the flesh (sin) is to walk in the Spirit.



I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21


Those who choose to disregard the admonition to walk according to the Spirit, and instead, practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

JLB

 

[JLB]

your happy topic of the lost being found - and turning a sinner away from sin and onto truth is a very good topic for a thread

Its the topic of this thread.


It’s happy if the list person repents and returns to Christ.


If not then they continue to be lost, and remain as sinners, separated from Christ.


James says save a soul from death.



A lost person whether never saved or a brother who is lost is the same; if they don’t repent -

Eternal death.




JLB