If he believes for 5 years then because of persecution, he turns away from Christ, he is no longed saved.
JLB
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Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation
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If he believes for 5 years then because of persecution, he turns away from Christ, he is no longed saved.
JLB
Were you saved when you believed?
Are you saved now?
What happens if you don’t believe in Christ anymore?
JLB
I was saved when I heard the gospel. Yes. Now. I always believe.
Jeremiah 17:8
He is like a tree planted by water, that sends out its roots by the stream, and does not fear when heat comes, for its leaves remain green, and is not anxious in the year of drought, for it does not cease to bear fruit.”
Psalm 52:8
But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God. I trust in the steadfast love of God for ever and ever.
My leaves are green There's no what if about it.
ezra
Member
then doubtful they was ever saved it make take some things to happen.. i dont know you dont know.. only God knows there heart 1 Corinthians 5: …4 When you are gathered in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, along with the power of the Lord Jesus, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, {so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord} . 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough?… :amen
But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13
This is about falling away, or departing from Christ, because a person is being persecuted for being a Christian.
This is not about people sitting in a bar, who mentally believe their is a God.
JLB
Ahhh. So your interpretation of bible doctrine is based on your current culture, not the truth the Bible teaches.
Got it.
JLB
ezra
Member
no actually you dont got it .... you keep using all these scenarios .90 % of the ones i know. out of church partying etc.. never suffered persecution they got out of church then the flesh took over i live in the real world .. do you know any one personally that has been bullied threatened with death for being a christian...
James 1:13-15 King James Version (KJV)
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
once again your scenarios. a former pastor i know left his church due to a a real life Jezebel . his wife was going after other flesh ..they soon divorced he went back to his old way of life.. might i add he just passed away at age 53 .. from what i was told he had got things squared away with God... we do have a advocate or do we not ?
ezra
Member
for the sake of you miss understanding.. this is what i posted not what you posted.---
i have yet to meet this type person . the guys sitting at the bar every week end believes in Christ . my mistake was i should have posted Even the guys ..this is a reference in believing in God . hope this clears your confusion up
Walpole
Member
And who is "this type person" you were writing about? Here is the post to which you responded:
"Were you saved when you believed?
Are you saved now?
What happens if you don’t believe in Christ anymore?"
---> https://christianforums.net/Fellows...-loss-of-salvation.78363/page-35#post-1503671
If you want examples of people who don't believe in Christ anymore and not just Christians sitting at the end of a bar (as you previously stated) here are some examples of that:
---> https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/magazine/the-evangelical-scion-who-stopped-believing.html
---> https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/magazine/from-bible-belt-pastor-to-atheist-leader.html
Here is one I just read about yesterday...
---> https://www.timesofisrael.com/dutch-former-anti-islam-mp-says-hes-become-a-muslim/
If you want Biblical examples, I would point to Judas Iscariot and Simon the Sorcerer.
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ezra
Member
i have doubts they was ever saved
Walpole
Member
That's the typical OSAS response. If you truly believed in OSAS, then you must hold Judas to be the poster child of this belief. He would have to be the doctrine's patron saint, looking down on you now from the glory of heaven.
The reality is some people believe and end up losing their faith and falling away, as Jesus Himself said happens. (cf. Luke 8:13)
ezra
Member
pssst can i help you out... i am not a osas doctrine person .. i preach a know so salvation.. i have covered this many times paul wrote to timothy That is why I am suffering as I am. Yet this is no cause for shame, because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him until that day. do you know ? in Romans paul wrote what shall we sin because we are under grace.. his words certainly not. lol i could keep countering you if i so desired .. but i dont have that desire beside my dead horse is dead..
Walpole
Member
Pssst...you've advocated OSAS several times in this thread, whether you realize it or not.
i preach a know so salvation.. i have covered this many times paul wrote to timothy That is why I am suffering as I am. Yet this is no cause for shame, because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him until that day. do you know ? in Romans paul wrote what shall we sin because we are under grace.. his words certainly not. lol i could keep countering you if i so desired .. but i dont have that desire beside my dead horse is dead..
In Christianity, one of the three theological virtues is that of hope. If you have judged yourself saved (supplanting Christ's rightful place as judge of all men), you are presuming and therefore do not need the virtue of hope.
"For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope; for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?" (Rom 8:24)
If you think you are saved, hope would be a foolish thing. Instead, you would just need the virtue of patience to wait for it.
Really?
Then why does it say they received the Gospel message with joy.
Sorry bro, these were believers being persecuted because they were Christians, and they departed from Christ to save their own life.
JLB