Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

[Truthfrees]

There are two groups, as it seems to me.
One group believes we can become lost again at some point and for different reasons.

The other group believes that once we walk down an isle and "accept" Jesus,,, we can never lose our salvation.

I've heard it said that a person can sin all they want to and still be saved.

I'm not referring to you here...I know you don't believe this.

However, that doctrine does bring one to believing this in its extreme.

that is not the 2 groups in this thread

the 2 groups here are never saved vs lose your salvation

 

[Truthfrees]

When I was young, I believed. Then in my early 20's I stopped believing. I even went so far as to write an essay for a college course using the Bible as my source of reference when my topic was the inaccuracy of the Scriptures. Although the professor was not particularly keen on my choice of topics, he did inform me that it was well written and gave me a pretty high mark in the context of what our exercise was. I ridiculed believers for what I believed to be their foolishness and absurdity. I most definitely fell away. It wasn't until I was in my 50's that I came to my senses. I believe I am an example of a prodigal son.

i didn't see this til now

so are you saying you were born again - and then stopped being born again - and are now born again for the 2nd time?

 

[Truthfrees]

I did report them. The posts which contain the ad hominems were not deleted and are still here.

edit

i looked back through all the reports and every post that everyone reported is deleted

so if you see another post in this thread that is attacking anyone report it and / or pm me with it - best to report it though so all staff can see the report

 

[GodsGrace]

that is not the 2 groups in this thread

the 2 groups here are never saved vs lose your salvation

TF,
I know what the people here are saying.

Here's what I'M saying:
The doctrine of OSAS brings to incorrect beliefs about what saves us and what KEEPS us saved.

Persons on this very site have said they believed at one time and then stopped believing. I don't know WHY this cannot be accepted when the bible is full of verses that prove this.

This is a post from another site,,,which is public knowledge anyway, but I won't post all of it....

THIS is what OSAS brings some to believe:


I know you directed this to ......., but for the record, I am one of those who advocate that belief in Jesus is all that is needed for salvation. Sorrow, promising to turn from sin, making Jesus "Lord", baptism, etc., are not what saves.

Belief and belief only. Just as Paul told the Philippian jailer.

And also for the record, if a born again believer dies in a state of sin, that believer is still saved.

.........................................

The above is a sad state of affairs and NOT what Jesus intended to teach in His 3 plus year ministry.

It is also not what Paul intended to teach and every other N.T. writer.

Why did OSAS NOT exist before the year 1,500???

Can it be that all the theologians that came before Calvin were wrong and only HE saw the error of their ways??

 

[Truthfrees]

TF,
I know what the people here are saying.

Here's what I'M saying:
The doctrine of OSAS brings to incorrect beliefs about what saves us and what KEEPS us saved.

Persons on this very site have said they believed at one time and then stopped believing. I don't know WHY this cannot be accepted when the bible is full of verses that prove this.

This is a post from another site,,,which is public knowledge anyway, but I won't post all of it....

THIS is what OSAS brings some to believe:


I know you directed this to ......., but for the record, I am one of those who advocate that belief in Jesus is all that is needed for salvation. Sorrow, promising to turn from sin, making Jesus "Lord", baptism, etc., are not what saves.

Belief and belief only. Just as Paul told the Philippian jailer.

And also for the record, if a born again believer dies in a state of sin, that believer is still saved.

.........................................

The above is a sad state of affairs and NOT what Jesus intended to teach in His 3 plus year ministry.

It is also not what Paul intended to teach and every other N.T. writer.

Why did OSAS NOT exist before the year 1,500???

Can it be that all the theologians that came before Calvin were wrong and only HE saw the error of their ways??

i would like to find out from wip what his case was

 

[GodsGrace]

i would like to find out from wip what his case was

AGREED!
He did state a very specific testimony,,,but yes, if WIP is here, he may want to join in.

I don't really understand why it's so difficult to accept that one could leave the faith. It seems to me that Jesus plainly said this --- even in parables.

What about the Prodigal Son? Luke 15
What about the Unmerciful Servant? Mathew 18:21.......
The Ways Contrasted? Mathew 7

 

[GodsGrace]

i would like to find out from wip what his case was

P.S.
Why is it not correct to call you OSAS?
Isn't that what you believe??
Eternal Security
Perseverance of the Saints
All the same....

 

[GodsGrace]

he never claimed leaving God - he never claimed to have had a relationship with God

he is a bible scholar to disprove the bible - not to confirm the bible

here is wiki on him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman

here is his video

He DOES NOT disprove the bible in his classes as a Professor.

He plainly states he was born again....
He plainly states he left the Christian faith.
There are other examples of people like this.....

 

[GodsGrace]

Hey just wondering why several of my posts are being deleted while other posters edit are allowed to post ad hominems with impunity.

Any ideas?

Someone (maybe me!) might have mentioned someone too clearly (maybe not by name) so posts that REFER to that get deleted.

It doesn't mean anything for you personally....

 

[Truthfrees]

P.S.
Why is it not correct to call you OSAS?
Isn't that what you believe??
Eternal Security
Perseverance of the Saints
All the same....

not true - because osas says you are saved no matter what you do - it is a tulip concept and i am not a tulip believer or a osas believer

so if you want to label me/us with something you need to find a new term that accurately describes never saved

 

[GodsGrace]

Hey just wondering why several of my posts are being deleted while other posters edit are allowed to post ad hominems with impunity.

Any ideas?

I would like to say that we try to treat each other with respect here --- unlike some other sites I've seen and/or tried in the past 3 years. I've always been here, BTW. My first site and what I consider home.

However, sometimes we make mistakes, it's only human, but the mods are very good and very fair. It's good moderating that keeps the forum well-behaved.

 

[Truthfrees]

He DOES NOT disprove the bible in his classes as a Professor.

He plainly states he was born again....
He plainly states he left the Christian faith.
There are other examples of people like this.....

he never used the term born again - he said he was a fundamentalist as a teenager -

he said in the video when he STARTED reading the bible he decided there was no God - how does that qualify as a born again believer

by his own confession he did not read the bible - so his belief was not based on the bible

when he started reading the bible he decided there was no God

he never said born again - he only talked about fundamentalist christianity and liberal christianity - he left christianity - he never met God - never committed to God - never had any root in himself - he was rooted and grounded in a denomination

 

[GodsGrace]

not true - because osas says you are saved no matter what you do - it is a tulip concept and i am not a tulip believer or a osas believer

so if you want to label me/us with something you need to find a new term that accurately describes never saved

But this is what the OSAS believe....
That if they walk away from the faith...
they were never saved in the first place.

I don't see the difference.
(I didn't say you're a tulip believer)

I DO NOT believe in OSAS. That doesn't label me anything...it's just stating a doctrine I believe.

No?

 

[Truthfrees]

He DOES NOT disprove the bible in his classes as a Professor.

he is an atheist agnostic and a bible scholar who claims there is no God - he specializes in contradictions in the bible to discredit the bible - there are other bible scholars who spend their time clearing up seemingly contradictory passages to prove the veracity of the bible

 

[GodsGrace]

he never used the term born again - he said he was a fundamentalist as a teenager -

he said in the video when he STARTED reading the bible he decided there was no God - how does that qualify as a born again believer

by his own confession he did not read the bible - so his belief was not based on the bible

when he started reading the bible he decided there was no God

he never said born again - he only talked about fundamentalist christianity and liberal christianity - he left christianity - he never met God - never committed to God - never had any root in himself - he was rooted and grounded in a denomination

TF,
When I came to know Jesus I had NEVER read the bible.
I didn't know the term BORN AGAIN.
I didn't learn either of the two till about 10 years later...maybe less.

To me it sounds like he was B.A. plus I know him and he says this all the time.

He stopped being a believer because he found too many conflicts in the bible and because we don't have the original manuscripts to check the bible we have. He does say, however, that what does NOT agree is very minor stuff and that the bible is truthful, but HE does not believe in it or that God could exist. Many leave the faith because of the problem with evil. He wouldn't be the first one.

 

[GodsGrace]

he is an atheist agnostic and a bible scholar who claims there is no God - he specializes in contradictions in the bible to discredit the bible - there are other bible scholars who spend their time clearing up seemingly contradictory passages to prove the veracity of the bible

To hear him....he does not make a point of saying he doesn't believe in God.
Unfortunately, due to YouTube, this has become common knowledge. But he will say over and over that he does not desire to change anyone's mind.

 

[Truthfrees]

But this is what the OSAS believe....
That if they walk away from the faith...
they were never saved in the first place.

I don't see the difference.
(I didn't say you're a tulip believer)

I DO NOT believe in OSAS. That doesn't label me anything...it's just stating a doctrine I believe.

No?

well osas believes you can sin all you want - so i am not osas - i therefore ask that you stop calling me osas - and everyone else who also has said they are not osas

if that is the criteria we use for labeling people if you hold one of the beliefs included in osas i can now call you osas?

i also don't want to be called a believer who doesn't like to hear the truth and all the other things we are being labelled

 

[Truthfrees]

To hear him....he does not make a point of saying he doesn't believe in God.
Unfortunately, due to YouTube, this has become common knowledge. But he will say over and over that he does not desire to change anyone's mind.

he said he doesn't believe in God in this video - and then claims he is not trying to change anyone's mind? -

the very fact that he made it known that he is an atheist agnostic and does not believe there is a God disproves his claim that he doesn't want to change anyone's mind

if he didn't want to change anyone's mind he would have kept his personal beliefs to himself

 

[FreeGrace]

But this is what the OSAS believe....
That if they walk away from the faith...
they were never saved in the first place.

Gentle correction. That is what Calvinists claim. There are non Calvinists who believe in eternal security.

I DO NOT believe in OSAS. That doesn't label me anything...it's just stating a doctrine I believe.

The primary distinction of Arminianism is conditional salvation; meaning that one can lose salvation by a variety of ways.

I've shared John 10:28 with you many times. The verse is very clear. Those to whom Jesus gives eternal life shall never perish. Please note that Jesus did not provide any conditions for recipients to meet in order to never perish.

The simple fact of receiving the gift of eternal life means they shall never perish, because that is exactly what Jesus said.

 

[ezra]

Will you continue to believe and continue to be saved when they start killing your friends and family and torturing you?


Has your faith been tested that way?

first off the answer to question one. i wold certainly hope will you ? this has not taken place in the states once again could it ? possibly personally what your describing in the events that takes place after we are gone.


has my faith been tested? every day i live i go through a faith test .has it been tested in the above description nope.. let me clue you in ..i have had to put up with more flack from the religious " those who say they are saved " than i have the lost in fact just yesterday we was walking out the door to go home. shooting the bull joking around.. one the woman made a statement i didnt give a s*** she changed it to you dont care.... i like to think that was Holy Ghost conviction not just me being a minister


2 Timothy 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.