Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

[GodsGrace]

Gentle correction. That is what Calvinists claim. There are non Calvinists who believe in eternal security.


The primary distinction of Arminianism is conditional salvation; meaning that one can lose salvation by a variety of ways.

I've shared John 10:28 with you many times. The verse is very clear. Those to whom Jesus gives eternal life shall never perish. Please note that Jesus did not provide any conditions for recipients to meet in order to never perish.

The simple fact of receiving the gift of eternal life means they shall never perish, because that is exactly what Jesus said.

On phone now...
Not good for writing.
Tomorrow.

 

[ezra]

But this is what the OSAS believe....
That if they walk away from the faith...
they were never saved in the first place.

for some reason this keeps coming into play . i have explained my position many times.. for some reason it has not sunk in .


i am not a osas Christian .. i am a blood bought child of the KIng . i have a inheritance >
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

i have a know so salvation that ye may know .. i have a God who is able to keep me: Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, i also have a God who will not allow me to be plucked out of his hand :
John 10:28-30 New International Version (NIV)
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

paul covered the practice of sin living under Grace.. he said NO it is not to be.

how many in here osNas can say they have been angry and sinned not ? were talking pushed to the limits ..i have and i sinned i told a technician at work after we had words... i bet his family was just sooooo happy when he walked through the door.. sarcasm *** yes i was ticked off . i have had church folks say mean nasty things to me .

how many guys ever seen a young lady walk by and watch her her walk away.. have a several seconds of run away thoughts ? did you lose your salvation ?

my whole point is this the debate yes debate over osas is silly . i have met church people who has nit been in church in months. ask do you believe in eternal security ? angry response NO.. i know a couple they attend church regular he later allegedly took the call to preach .. allowed there daughter to attend college several miles away live in a shared dorm separate sleeping rooms of course.. with her boy friend . do i know what goes on behind closed doors? no does it look right? would you still call them saved? not my call . ask the parents of course

 

[MarkT]

The scriptures say it’s not only possible but it does happen.


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13



JLB

Of course it happens. That's not the point. The point is he has no root. The seed is the word of God. But there's not enough soil for the seed to take root in. So the parable says the man endures for a while. Endures hardship, temptation. He holds on for a while. But he has no root. No firm conviction. So any wind of trial can potentially uproot him.

 

[ezra]

this is why they call it the parable of the sower . it is used so folks can understand this case lets plant seeds we farmers can understand that . i plant a seed in rocky soil it might come up .but it will not survive if i plant my seed in good soil it will make a true plant produce crop . all on how we hear the word...

 

[JLB]

first off the answer to question one. i wold certainly hope will you ? this has not taken place in the states once again could it ? possibly personally what your describing in the events that takes place after we are gone.

That’s not an answer.



JLB

 

[JLB]

first off the answer to question one. i wold certainly hope will you ? this has not taken place in the states once again could it ? possibly personally what your describing in the events that takes place after we are gone.


has my faith been tested? every day i live i go through a faith test .has it been tested in the above description nope.. let me clue you in ..i have had to put up with more flack from the religious " those who say they are saved " than i have the lost in fact just yesterday we was walking out the door to go home. shooting the bull joking around.. one the woman made a statement i didnt give a s*** she changed it to you dont care.... i like to think that was Holy Ghost conviction not just me being a minister


2 Timothy 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Remember we are discussing scripture and what Jesus taught.


He taught that some will believe, and because of being persecuted they will only believe for a while.


Scriptural Truth is not based on your cultural circumstances or perspective.


If a person believes they are saved.

If they believe for a while then fall away from Christ, because they were persecuted for being a believer, then they are no longer saved.



JLB

 

[ezra]

If they believe for a while then fall away from Christ, because they were persecuted for being a believer, then they are no longer saved.

i dont see this pertaining to salvation
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

hearing the word please note the words fall away from Christ are not mentioned

then they are no longer saved. < where in these scriptures say that ?

 

[ezra]

That’s not an answer.



JLB

sorry but this is not a court of law

 

[JLB]

Of course it happens. That's not the point. The point is he has no root. The seed is the word of God. But there's not enough soil for the seed to take root in. So the parable says the man endures for a while. Endures hardship, temptation. He holds on for a while. But he has no root. No firm conviction. So any wind of trial can potentially uproot him.

You are mixing the parabolic imagery, with the literal.

The seed, the sun and soil “represent” things.


The man does not grow roots.

The sun represents “persecution”.

The reason their is persecution is the person has believed and is therefore a believer.


You seem to ignore this simple fact.


He is persecuted “BECAUSE” he is a believer.


That’s the truth you are not acknowledging.



JLB

 

[JLB]

i dont see this pertaining to salvation
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

The ones that the devil stole the seed from are not saved, represented by the seed not being received and sprouting.


Jesus have the condition for being saved.

• Lest they believe and be saved.

Condition for being saved is BELIEVE.


They next example is a person who does in fact believe, and is therefore saved.


Later on in their life, a time of persecution arose, and because they were being persecuted they fell away from Christ.


JLB

 

[JLB]

sorry but this is not a court of law

No it’s not a court of law.

However, one Day we all will stand before the Judge to be judged according to our deeds.


who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath.
Romans 2:6-8


Here is who will receive eternal life on that Day -

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

JLB

 

[JLB]

I've shared John 10:28 with you many times. The verse is very clear. Those to whom Jesus gives eternal life shall never perish. Please note that Jesus did not provide any conditions for recipients to meet in order to never perish.

The simple fact of receiving the gift of eternal life means they shall never perish, because that is exactly what Jesus said.

When one studies the actual scripture, we see that Jesus gave the condition for receiving what was promised in verse 28.


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

• hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

Hear means to listen with the intent of obeying; which’s results in following.


Those who hear for a while then wander away and become lost, must repent and be reconciled back to the Lord, or they will remain lost.




JLB

 

[ezra]

No it’s not a court of law.

However, one Day we all will stand before the Judge to be judged according to our deeds.


who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath.
Romans 2:6-8


Here is who will receive eternal life on that Day -

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

JLB

and? never denied this ..just in case my last post on my belief you either failed to read -- i am not some lossey goosy preacher who says every thing will be alright after your saved. you dont have to worry about repenting or any thing like that... i hope this clears things up. your taking scriptures on levels of hearing the good soil they really got saved

 

[JLB]

and? never denied this ..just in case my last post on my belief you either failed to read -- i am not some lossey goosy preacher who says every thing will be alright after your saved. you dont have to worry about repenting or any thing like that... i hope this clears things up. your taking scriptures on levels of hearing the good soil they really got saved

I read what you posted.


What I’m asking you to acknowledge is;

The fact that those in the second group are believers, and that they are being persecuted “because” they are believers.


Some in this discussion claim that these are “Church attendees” or
People who are not really believers.


Are you in that camp, or do you understand that the reason they are persecuted is because they are believers?



JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

I read what you posted.
What I’m asking you to acknowledge is;
The fact that those in the second group are believers, and that they are being persecuted “because” they are believers.
Some in this discussion claim that these are “Church attendees” or
People who are not really believers.
Are you in that camp, or do you understand that the reason they are persecuted is because they are believers?

JLB

scripture says they were persecuted for the Word's sake not because they were believers

Mark 4:17 - Matthew 13:21 -

and because they have no root - aka not in Christ the ROOT - Luke 8:13

 

[ezra]

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
first three was never saved and btw that is not osas They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Isaiah 35:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

9 No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:


In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. i can continue to counter your scripture scripture . stated where i stand and stand i am it is my desire to answer the call who will go... AND TRY to be the one who will stand in the gap

 

[ezra]

Some in this discussion claim that these are “Church attendees” or
People who are not really believers.

i m not some just me every thing i post i stand by

 

[JLB]

i m not some just me every thing i post i stand by

scripture says they were persecuted for the Word's sake not because they were believers

Mark 4:17 - Matthew 13:21 -

and because they have no root - aka not in Christ the ROOT - Luke 8:13

I see so your position is these were unbelievers that were being persecuted, by other other unbelievers?


What did these unbelievers “fall away” from then?


You do understand that Jesus said they believed, right?


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe...







JLB

 

[JLB]

i m not some just me every thing i post i stand by

Are you standing by the fact that in group 2, these being persecuted were believers or unbelievers?




JLB

 

[ezra]

I see so your position is these were unbelievers that were being persecuted, by other other believers?


What did these unbelievers “fall away” from then?

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

temptations we dont know if you got no root you got no fruit thus your not saved are you a doer of the word or a hearer only 21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and every expression of evil, and humbly receive the word planted in you, which can save your souls. 22Be doers of the word, and not hearers only. Otherwise, you are deceiving yourselves. 23For anyone who hears the word but does not carry it out is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror,… and what forgets what type person his was.. note the self deception/ deceiving your self. 2