Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

[ezra]

Most people understand the truth just by reading the scripture.


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1


How can someone remain saved if they depart from the faith in Christ?



JLB

psst im not in this argument but wait of course there is no arguments allowed in this forum and no debates ..just discussion this is why there are southern missionary and independent baptist.. there are few other that hold to osas .. then the groups who hold to osnas == division

 

[JLB]

So how can they be saved before they are tested?

That’s a wonderful, amazing question, sir!


Again saved (by faith), born again, regenerated, “when” we believe.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• they should believe and be saved

JLB

 

[JLB]

The ones on the rock believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. The parable says because they have no root. So when they are tested, they fall away. So how can you say they were already saved before any testing? Or saved for a while?

I’m only saying what the scripture itself says, and the principle it teaches.


Let me ask you this, from the parable.



Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12


Why weren’t the ones by the wayside saved?



Can we grow roots before we are saved, born again, regenerated?


JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

So how can they be saved before they are tested? The ones on the rock believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. The parable says because they have no root. So when they are tested, they fall away. So how can you say they were already saved before any testing? Or saved for a while?

It's only the good soil that bears much fruit.
Luke 8:15
And as for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bring forth fruit with patience.

You and JLB are having a good discussion and I don't want to derail it...

However, I do want to say this:
Why is testing necessary to know that I'm saved??

What if I come to believe in God and have faith in Him and after a week, with no tribulation, I die.
Am I saved or not?

Jesus said that the tribulation took away God's word because the faith was weak...Jesus said all we need is the faith of a mustard seed ---very little.

But tribulation could cause some to begin to have doubt in God and satan uses this to cut away at our faith and our belief. So we need to learn to gird ourselves for the fight which is not with principalities and to put on the whole armor of God to be prepared for battle.

Some never reach this point and the evil one wins.

 

[JLB]

psst im not in this argument but wait of course there is no arguments allowed in this forum and no debates ..just discussion this is why there are southern missionary and independent baptist.. there are few other that hold to osas .. then the groups who hold to osnas == division

There are divisions because false doctrine is promoted and put up with.


The doctrine of Christ taught by the Spirit of truth is what will bring unity to the Church.


The unity of the faith.

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— Ephesians 4:11-15

• that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine

JLB

 

[chessman]

I’m only saying what the scripture itself says, and the principle it teaches.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1


How can someone remain saved if they depart from the faith in Christ?

Paul didn’t say they would depart from the faith in Christ. You add that assumption to what he actually said the faith was that some would depart from by giving head to deception. All one needs to do to actually know the truth about the faith some will depart from is to not chop off the rest of his sentence and read it:

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.​

1 Timothy 4:1-3 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 4:1-3&version=NKJV

The truth is, Paul didn’t say some will depart from the faith in Christ.

We who believe and know the truth, know that Paul didn’t say some will depart from the faith in Christ. We believe and know that everything God sanctified is not to be refused.

 

[Truthfrees]

When we were headed for the pit, God saved us. When we were still sinners, he rescued us. So in the context of Titus, what we were before our Lord appeared and what he did by his appearing, it's quite appropriate to say God our Savior saved us.

It's also appropriate in other contexts to say, "we will be saved"meaning when he returns, and "we are being saved"meaning we are being conformed to the Lord.

Yes those things are associated with salvation. But I believe God saves men and God's salvation is everlasting. Yet many will fall away, and not everyone who calls him Lord will be saved. My guess is the many are following false teachers or they're not reading the Bible or they just do not understand.

They will call him Lord. Were they ever saved? Jesus will say, 'I never knew' you suggesting they were never saved.

He never made his home with them, meaning his words never entered into their hearts.

John 14:23
Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

So I tell people to read the Bible. Keep his words in your hearts. Be attentive to instruction. That way both the Father and the Son will make their home with you. And stay away from sin.

what you are saying makes sense - the parable of the sower talks about different soil - hard soil that was so hard the Word never entered into the soil - and then other types of soil that were shallow and the scorching sun dried up the root - and the thorny soil that choked out the word - and the last soil that was good ground that persevered and bore fruit

 

[GodsGrace]

Paul didn’t say they would depart from the faith in Christ. You add that assumption to what he actually said the faith was that some would depart from by giving head to deception. All one needs to do to actually know the truth about the faith some will depart from is to not chop off the rest of his sentence and read it:

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.​

1 Timothy 4:1-3 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 4:1-3&version=NKJV

The truth is, Paul didn’t say some will depart from the faith in Christ.

We who believe and know the truth, know that Paul didn’t say some will depart from the faith in Christ. We believe and know that everything God sanctified is not to be refused.

Are Catholics the same, in the sense of being Christian, as WE are?

 

[JLB]

Paul didn’t say they would depart from the faith in Christ.

Sure he did.


For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly; but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 3:13-4:1


If you don’t believe Paul was referring to our common faith in Christ, then please explain for us what “the faith” he was referring to.



JLB

 

[JLB]

what you are saying makes sense - the parable of the sower talks about different soil - hard soil that was so hard the Word never entered into the soil - and then other types of soil that were shallow and the scorching sun dried up the root - and the thorny soil that choked out the word - and the last soil that was good ground that persevered and bore fruit

so i can see how the persevering soil was the good attentive understanding soil - SAVED - and that is the believer

the other soils either fell away right away or somewhere later - they never understood and persevered - possibly meaning they were never saved - because they did not have lasting roots -aka lasting faith - aka salvation - maybe those that fall away were never saved because they had never a lasting root - maybe saved is those that have a lasting root

just thinking out loud - your posts got me thinking about how is a person saved - what is a saved person - what is a DATING person ve a MARRIED person

maybe people can follow Jesus like they are DATING - but they are never KNOWN by Jesus until they MARRY - make a true heart commitment

makes more sense to me that a person DATING Jesus can fall away like the first 3 soils in the parable of the sower - also makes sense that someone who is MARRIED to Jesus is the last soil - and those people don't fall away or walk in unbelief

Can a person grow roots from the Gospel seed, if they are not born again?



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

what you are saying makes sense - the parable of the sower talks about different soil - hard soil that was so hard the Word never entered into the soil - and then other types of soil that were shallow and the scorching sun dried up the root - and the thorny soil that choked out the word - and the last soil that was good ground that persevered and bore fruit

so i can see how the persevering soil was the good attentive understanding soil - SAVED - and that is the believer

the other soils either fell away right away or somewhere later - they never understood and persevered - possibly meaning they were never saved - because they did not have lasting roots -aka lasting faith - aka salvation - maybe those that fall away were never saved because they had never a lasting root - maybe saved is those that have a lasting root

just thinking out loud - your posts got me thinking about how is a person saved - what is a saved person - what is a DATING person ve a MARRIED person

maybe people can follow Jesus like they are DATING - but they are never KNOWN by Jesus until they MARRY - make a true heart commitment

makes more sense to me that a person DATING Jesus can fall away like the first 3 soils in the parable of the sower - also makes sense that someone who is MARRIED to Jesus is the last soil - and those people don't fall away or walk in unbelief

What you post is absolutely true.
Dating persons should also be committed to each other BTW.

However, let's not lose sight of the fact that JESUS SAID
they were temporarily saved....

Like 8:13
13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away."

How do we even debate what Jesus said??

 

[chessman]

what you are saying makes sense - the parable of the sower talks about different soil - hard soil that was so hard the Word never entered into the soil - and then other types of soil that were shallow and the scorching sun dried up the root - and the thorny soil that choked out the word - and the last soil that was good ground that persevered and bore fruit

Anybody interested in what Professor Snodgrass has to say about this parable?

 

[Truthfrees]

Can a person grow roots from the Gospel seed, if they are not born again?
JLB

that is what i am thinking through right now

 

[Truthfrees]

Anybody interested in what Professor Snodgrass has to say about this parable?

yes please - i would like to hear - but who is snodgrass? - never heard of him

 

[GodsGrace]

Anybody interested in what Professor Snodgrass has to say about this parable?

NO!

 

[Truthfrees]

What you post is absolutely true.
Dating persons should also be committed to each other BTW.

However, let's not lose sight of the fact that JESUS SAID
they were temporarily saved....

Like 8:13
13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away."

How do we even debate what Jesus said??

believe and saved - or just flimsy believe one moment but lose faith the next?

 

[chessman]

Are Catholics the same, in the sense of being Christian, as WE are?

Are you asking about Roman Catholic Church doctrine relative to God’s sanctification of marriage for everyone (including their overseeers/priests) or about their church members (including some priests)? Many RC’s don’t know or believe RC doctrines concerning marriage being sanctified by God.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

There are divisions because false doctrine is promoted and put up with.


The doctrine of Christ taught by the Spirit of truth is what will bring unity to the Church.


The unity of the faith.

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— Ephesians 4:11-15

• that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine

JLB

"but speak the truth in love"

this truth is clear in Scripture, it is not talking about controversial doctrines

 

[Truthfrees]

NO!

why not? - who is snodgrass?

 

[chessman]

yes please - i would like to hear - but who is snodgrass? - never heard of him

The author of; “Stories With Intent; A Comprehensive Guide to the Parables of Jesus”. StoveBolts recommended it. It’s pretty good, as in very good! I’m only about 1/2 way through it (>500 pages long) but you’d be surprised to know I haven’t run across something he’s said that I necessarily disagree with yet. (But there’s still time).