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just asking everyone to be kind to each other as we discuss our differences - please discuss the topic without discussing each other -

please tell others what you believe but do NOT tell others what they believe or give them or their beliefs a label

this discussion is to share what you believe and why - and why you DON'T believe what the other person does - but this discussion is not to ATTACK another person's beliefs

if you find yourself disliking someone because of what they believe please do not reply to that person - let others who like that person and still have kindness toward them respond
 
chessman said:
The author of; “Stories With Intent; A Comprehensive Guide to the Parables of Jesus”. StoveBolts recommended it. It’s pretty good, as in very good! I’m only about 1/2 way through it (>500 pages long) but you’d be surprised to know I haven’t run across something he’s said that I necessarily disagree with yet. (But there’s still time). :)
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thanks - will try to find his material - what did he say about the parable of the sower?
 
Truthfrees said:
believe and saved - or just flimsy believe one moment but lose faith the next?

Jesus didn't say they were saved

james said even the devil believes - but he is not saved

dating that does not end up in marriage to me sounds like TEST THE WATERS kind of believing but not getting saved/MARRIED
Click to expand...
TF,
Let's not start at the beginning....
We both know what BELIEVE means...
Believe, as in having faith...NOT as the devils believe.

Moving forward:

Jesus didn't say they were saved?
Did He not say they believed for a while?
What does believe mean anyway??
In the greek of the day in which the N.T. was translated...believe meant to have faith in, to trust, to follow, to adhere to, to learn from, etc.

If Jesus said they BELIEVED for a while
THAT is what He meant....
If I have faith, trust, follow and learn from Jesus, I must surely be saved.

If I'm saved for two weeks and I die within that time,,,I'm saved. If I lose my faith after two weeks and die after the two weeks, then I become lost again.

Didn't Jesus know what believe meant? It's just that we don't have all the words in English.

Believe for the demons means: know about.
Not believe like we Christians mean it.

And maybe dating is a trial period...which it definitely is.

In salvation there is NO trial period.
You're either saved or you're not.
 
JLB said:
That’s a wonderful, amazing question, sir!


Again saved (by faith), born again, regenerated, “when” we believe.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12


  • they should believe and be saved



JLB
Click to expand...

Of course you have to believe to be saved. But this is the man who falls away when he is tempted.

My only question is was he saved before he fell away?

He who doesn't understand the word, the devil snatches away what is sown lest they should believe and be saved.


He who has no depth of understanding falls away when he is tempted.


He who delights in riches so that the word is choked and it proves unfruitful


He who hears and understands the word; he indeed bears fruit.
 
chessman said:
The author of; “Stories With Intent; A Comprehensive Guide to the Parables of Jesus”. StoveBolts recommended it. It’s pretty good, as in very good! I’m only about 1/2 way through it (>500 pages long) but you’d be surprised to know I haven’t run across something he’s said that I necessarily disagree with yet. (But there’s still time). :)
Click to expand...
Problem with this Chessman is that everyone has their own opinion. I'm sure the book is very good and will give many insights...I'm also sure it's prejudiced to his own view.

This means you should NOT read it or we'd read nothing.
I just say that if Jesus says something plainly and clearly, that's what we go by -- not someone's opinion.
 
Truthfrees said:
just asking everyone to be kind to each other as we discuss our differences - please discuss the topic without discussing each other -

please tell others what you believe but do NOT tell others what they believe or give them or their beliefs a label

this discussion is to share what you believe and why - and why you DON'T believe what the other person does - but this discussion is not to ATTACK another person's beliefs

if you find yourself disliking someone because of what they believe please do not reply to that person - let others who like that person and still have kindness toward them respond
Click to expand...
Aren't we being nice?
I think so.
You just made me wonder.
 
wondering said:
I just say that if Jesus says something plainly and clearly, that's what we go by -- not someone's opinion.
Click to expand...
Parables, by definition, are not plain or clear. Even His disciples were confused by their meaning at times (thus His interpretation of a few for them). The Parable of the Sower being THE prime example of this principle.
 
wondering said:
You and JLB are having a good discussion and I don't want to derail it...

However, I do want to say this:
Why is testing necessary to know that I'm saved??

What if I come to believe in God and have faith in Him and after a week, with no tribulation, I die.
Am I saved or not?

Jesus said that the tribulation took away God's word because the faith was weak...Jesus said all we need is the faith of a mustard seed ---very little.

But tribulation could cause some to begin to have doubt in God and satan uses this to cut away at our faith and our belief. So we need to learn to gird ourselves for the fight which is not with principalities and to put on the whole armor of God to be prepared for battle.

Some never reach this point and the evil one wins.
Click to expand...

I guess it's just God's plan to separate the wheat from the chaff. Jesus said temptation is necessary.
Matthew 18:7
“Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the man by whom the temptation comes!

Abraham was tested. Even Jesus was tested when he was in the wilderness, fulfilling the prophet Isaiah.

Isaiah 28:16
therefore thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I am laying in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, of a sure foundation: ‘He who believes will not be in haste.’
 
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JLB said:
For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Click to expand...
See, when Paul means the faith which is in Christ Jesus, He says so in his sentences.

JLB said:
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 3:13-4:1
Click to expand...
You chopped off his sentence where he explained exactly what he means by “depart from the faith”.



JLB said:
If you don’t believe Paul was referring to our common faith in Christ, then please explain for us what “the faith” he was referring to.
Click to expand...
I did. The underlined part in the rest of Paul’s sentence, which you chopped off again.
 
wondering said:
Aren't we being nice?
I think so.
You just made me wonder.
Click to expand...
i purposely didn't name names - the post was meant to turn the discussion in a kinder direction because there are some people who are getting too personal sometimes - the result is it turns the discussion onto the person and away from the topic
 
MarkT said:
So how can they be saved before they are tested? The ones on the rock believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. The parable says because they have no root. So when they are tested, they fall away. So how can you say they were already saved before any testing? Or saved for a while?

It's only the good soil that bears much fruit.
Luke 8:15
And as for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Click to expand...
wow just saw this now didn't realize you already made the same statement -
 
wondering said:
EXACTLY !!

I don't know who he is and don't have a lot of time to read books and must choose wisely.

I just like reading the bible..every time I get something more out of it. Except for the O.T. --- somebody help me!
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very valid point - great reminder - can't ever be reminded of this too much - thanks
 
Truthfrees said:
roots that die or get choked out? - probably not

that is what i am thinking about

salvation is a powerful action of God - dying and choking roots does not sound like God's powerful salvation to me - sounds like man's fickle flimsy flip flop believing one minute and not believing the next

what is salvation? - this kind of flimsy belief? - or something more powerful? - like ROOTS that last

that is what i am thinking through right now
Click to expand...

“A sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some fell by the wayside; and it was trampled down, and the birds of the air devoured it. Some fell on rock; and as soon as it sprang up, it withered away because it lacked moisture. Luke 8:5-6


  • Some fell on rock; and as soon as it sprang up, it withered away because it lacked moisture.


For a plant to sprout, “spring up”, it must first have roots.


All the plants around you start life as a seed. Without seeds, there would be no plants and Earth would be a barren place that would not support the many forms of life that surround us every day.

Seeds are usually fairly small. Some are even tiny. Despite their small size, though, seeds contain food and all the instructions necessary to sprout to life as a plant.

When seeds are planted, they first grow roots. Once these roots take hold, a small plant will begin to emerge and eventually break through the soil. When this happens, we say that the seed has sprouted. The scientific name for this process is germination.
Click to expand...
https://wonderopolis.org/wonder/how-do-seeds-sprout



So the question remains:


Can a person grow “Gospel” roots if they are not born again.




JLB
 
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