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Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

Truthfrees said:
listening to this man he never talks about faith in Jesus - he talks about faith in doctrines / religious beliefs

that is what i have been thinking too - people are not introduced to Jesus their Savior - they are taught doctrines/religious beliefs - and doctrines/ religious beliefs will/do disappoint - and then they depart from the doctrine/religious belief -

but they never were really saved - Jesus never knew them - they never knew Jesus - this man says nothing about knowing Jesus for himself and then leaving Jesus - he only knew evangelical christian doctrines and then left those doctrines -

he never says a word about Jesus - he only talks about evangelical christianity and then liberal christianity and then agnosticism/atheism is where he landed

so imo because he never knew Jesus and Jesus never knew him - one day this man could have a divine encounter with God and get saved - and then he will probably be like me - talking about Jesus instead of talking about doctrines - i only use doctrines to draw close to Jesus - and help others draw close to Jesus - other than that doctrines are not interesting to me - they are just the words of man trying to explain God's words - and the words of man are fallible - so best to read the words of God because they are infallible pure powerful
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After listening to that you believe Bart Ehrman was never saved?

OK. We each must believe what we believe then.

BTW, the P in TULIP is for
Perseverance of the Saints.

If you study up on this, you'd find that Calvin very much believed in works and good deeds and that he believed that one cannot know if they're saved until the end of their life....
at which time they'll know if they have PERSEVERED TILL THE END! (which means they were truly saved)

You can learn all about Calvinism if you study the institutes...
Here are some links:

http://www.ntslibrary.com/PDF Books/Calvin Institutes of Christian Religion.pdf

Against perseverance of the saints:

http://www.centervilleroad.com/articles/calvinism-6.html
 
wondering said:
After listening to that you believe Bart Ehrman was never saved?

OK. We each must believe what we believe then.

BTW, the P in TULIP is for
Perseverance of the Saints.

If you study up on this, you'd find that Calvin very much believed in works and good deeds and that he believed that one cannot know if they're saved until the end of their life....
at which time they'll know if they have PERSEVERED TILL THE END! (which means they were truly saved)

You can learn all about Calvinism if you study the institutes...
Here are some links:

http://www.ntslibrary.com/PDF Books/Calvin Institutes of Christian Religion.pdf

Against perseverance of the saints:

http://www.centervilleroad.com/articles/calvinism-6.html
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i tried learning from calvinists and i didn't get to the p because i was already stuck on free will and predestination and all the terms and theology involved -

a non calvinist explained how free will in calvinism is different than free will for the rest of us - so the terms and the alternate meanings of what i thought were simple words was too much for me - my brain hurt - i tried learning online - i need a calvinist to explain to me what calvinists believe - but calvinists have different camps and they disagree with each other - so i am not trying again -

i don't actually enjoy doctrines - they are complicated - scripture is extremely interesting to me - i like reading multiple scriptures while praying and asking God to explain to me what He means - that is really slow - way slower than reading a book - but is it ever deep and fascinating
 
Calvinism sees God's sovereignty as determining human will; whereas historical Christianity (Catholicism) sees God's sovereignty as incorporating human will through foreknowledge.

It's important to know that Calvinism is a fringe sect of Christianity. In other words, their beliefs are outliers.

Salvation in Calvinism comes down to nothing more than an arbitrary act by a God who acts with pure will (much like the Islamic understanding of God). It is nothing more than a flip of a coin.
 
Truthfrees said:
i tried learning from calvinists and i didn't get to the p because i was already stuck on free will and predestination and all the terms and theology involved -

a non calvinist explained how free will in calvinism is different than free will for the rest of us - so the terms and the alternate meanings of what i thought were simple words was too much for me - my brain hurt - i tried learning online - i need a calvinist to explain to me what calvinists believe - but calvinists have different camps and they disagree with each other - so i am not trying again -

i don't actually enjoy doctrines - they are complicated - scripture is extremely interesting to me - i like reading multiple scriptures while praying and asking God to explain to me what He means - that is really slow - way slower than reading a book - but is it ever deep and fascinating
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Here...I'll make it really easy for you.
Calvinists don't believe in free will. They believe God predetermines everything...predestinates everything.

I agree that the entire N.T. should be ready by us all alone and so come to our own conclusion on matters such as free will.

I do find, however, that the more I know, the more I could converse with persons about what conclusions I've come to.

But, yes, doctrine is not everything -- our relationship with God is.

Some doctrines though, does seem to be very unbiblical to me.
 
Walpole said:
Calvinism sees God's sovereignty as determining human will; whereas historical Christianity (Catholicism) sees God's sovereignty as incorporating human will through foreknowledge.

It's important to know that Calvinism is a fringe sect of Christianity. In other words, their beliefs are outliers.

Salvation in Calvinism comes down to nothing more than an arbitrary act by a God who acts with pure will (much like the Islamic understanding of God). It is nothing more than a flip of a coin.
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I wouldn't call it a fringe sect...
I'd call it a heresy.
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chessman said:
Good point, let’s see if it sticks. That’s exactly what the passage is saying in reality. And just think, it makes the top of the list of the ‘best verses ...’

It’s simply the difference between “you” (believers) and “them” (unbelievers), right there in the Text.

If anyone is not abiding in Me— he was thrown outside like the branch, and was dried-up. And they gather them together, and throw them into the fire. And they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you want, and it will be done for you.​
John 15:6-7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 15:6-7&version=DLNT

Do you have any idea how Jesus could truthfully say “I never knew you” to anyone who has abided in Him and His word in that someone?
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Your last paragraph is precisely the reason why it's important to note that Jesus did not mention believers or unbelievers.

Some like to think that once they believe they are saved forever, with no conditions.

Well, Jesus didn't speak about being saved,,,did He?

He said that those WHO ABIDE in Him (you), present tense, can ask Him anything because they ARE friends with Him.

He said that those WHO DO NOT ABIDE in Him (them), PRESENT tense, cannot ask Him anything because they are not His friend.
 
wondering said:
Here...I'll make it really easy for you.
Calvinists don't believe in free will. They believe God predetermines everything...predestinates everything.

I agree that the entire N.T. should be ready by us all alone and so come to our own conclusion on matters such as free will.

I do find, however, that the more I know, the more I could converse with persons about what conclusions I've come to.

But, yes, doctrine is not everything -- our relationship with God is.

Some doctrines though, does seem to be very unbiblical to me.
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i agree that our relationship with God is everything
 
JLB said:
Are you saying we are born again first, then we believe?




JLB
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To me the parable of the sower is about trust. Do we trust the Lord or do we fall away from his teachings when we are tempted? Do we let the cares and pleasures of this world choke his word so that his word proves unfruitful? Or do we hold his word in an honest and good heart, and bear the fruit of the Spirit.

It doesn't say anything about being saved for a while.
 
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wondering said:
Were all the previous theologians before this dumb?
Don't you think that if OSAS was true, everyone would have taught it from the beginning of Christianity and not have to have waited till the year 1,500 AD??
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your gnat straining . i dont believe in being slain in the spirit nor do i think /believe speaking in tongues is sign of the baptism of the Holy spirit tongues is a gift. i respect the early fathers some bank heavy on.. i find there writings interesting /and or historical ..but they was just humans like me.. i dont really care who does believe in osas or osnas.. if you want to take up the banner of osas false doctrine so be it

Instead of giving us a false sense of security.

If you need scripture, I'll post it AGAIN and AGAIN...
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you post till your heart is content with scripture
Ephesians 4:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Ephesians 4 King James Version (KJV)
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

have you ever heard about the sneetches in D.R .SUESS book

that is what this post reminds me of

do you think Charles Stanley is just as saved as you are? i dont agree with him %100 but i still respect him..
 
Truthfrees said:
true to a point

the better question is who is leaning their faith on Jesus rather than a denomination? - so really all denominations are man made to some degree - great or small - but faith in Jesus is between you and Jesus - and is not subject to anyone's judgement -

are there true christians in every denomination? - yes

do all denominations contain a degree of error/heresy? - yes

and we were told to not judge but wait for The Judge - Matthew 13:28-30 - Matthew 7:1-3 - because God's judgments are pure - ours are suspect - 1 Samuel 16:7 - John 8:7
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:agreed:agreed
 
JLB i want you to know that on this page i am %100 in agreement with the scriptures you have posted .the unreborn theory blows my mind . i will say for my part i hold to a type of eternal security.... but not to the point of living like hell and making heaven your home.. i still feel those who never return /repent was never saved.. but then again i really caan not say who goes or who does not.. in our community a former preacher/pastor resigned his church due to strife . him and his wife soon split she had left him while he was pastor.. since in 2018 he has been arrested on dwi this year possion ( spelling ) of 35 grams marijuana --resisting arrest . my thoughts today how many Christians including me . have went and tried to restore him in love re:gal 6:1. we kick our own while they are down....
 
ezra said:
JLB i want you to know that on this page i am %100 in agreement with the scriptures you have posted .the unreborn theory blows my mind . i will say for my part i hold to a type of eternal security.... but not to the point of living like hell and making heaven your home.. i still feel those who never return /repent was never saved.. but then again i really caan not say who goes or who does not.. in our community a former preacher/pastor resigned his church due to strife . him and his wife soon split she had left him while he was pastor.. since in 2018 he has been arrested on dwi this year possion ( spelling ) of 35 grams marijuana --resisting arrest . my thoughts today how many Christians including me . have went and tried to restore him in love re:gal 6:1. we kick our own while they are down....
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Truthfrees said:
true to a point

the better question is who is leaning their faith on Jesus rather than a denomination? - so really all denominations are man made to some degree - great or small - but faith in Jesus is between you and Jesus - and is not subject to anyone's judgement -
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We must first define what is the faith of Jesus. How does one know whether what they believe is or is not the Christian faith?

Truthfrees said:
are there true christians in every denomination? - yes
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Who or what determines what is the true Christian?

Truthfrees said:
do all denominations contain a degree of error/heresy? - yes
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Again, who or what determines what is an error / heresy?

If every denomination contains a degree of error / heresy, then man is hopelessly lost and can never know if what he believes is truth or not.

Truthfrees said:
and we were told to not judge but wait for The Judge - Matthew 13:28-30 - Matthew 7:1-3 - because God's judgments are pure - ours are suspect - 1 Samuel 16:7 - John 8:7
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Non-sequitur. (Those verses are not about how one determines what is or is not the Christian faith.)
 
JLB said:
I don’t know of any verse that teaches that a born again Christian somehow goes back to being un-born again.


A born again Christian can certainly return to practicing the works of the flesh, rather than living according to the Spirit.


Paul teaches this throughout his letters.


First Paul tells them that if they walk according to the Spirit, they will not fulfill the lustful desires of the flesh.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


  • of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God


Do you know what the phrase will not inherit the kingdom of God means?


Paul constantly warned of this over and over to all the Churches.


  • of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past


JLB
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Are you saying Calvinists are liars and murderers and immoral and the like. Or they support and approve such things?

I didn't know that.
 
Walpole said:
We must first define what is the faith of Jesus. How does one know whether what they believe is or is not the Christian faith?

Who or what determines what is the true Christian?

Again, who or what determines what is an error / heresy?

If every denomination contains a degree of error / heresy, then man is hopelessly lost and can never know if what he believes is truth or not.

Non-sequitur. (Those verses are not about how one determines what is or is not the Christian faith.)
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the thing is you and i do not determine that for others - you determine for you
 
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