Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

[Truthfrees]

We're speaking past each other.

I'm not talking about denominations...
I'm talking about what makes a person a Christian.

I didn't say MISUNDERSTANDS
communion
baptism
confession
life after death

I said if they don't believe in the above they cannot be Christian.
Christians do the things I listed.

It can't be just believing in Jesus.
Some non-Christian religions believe in Jesus.
You don't want me to name them so I won't,,,but we all know which...

Some members are starting their own church because they do not believe Jesus is God.

Are they still Christian?
They DO believe in Jesus.
They do believe He died for their sins.
They do believe He's the Son of God.

Can just anyone be called a Christian no matter WHAT they believe as long as they're depending on Jesus?

why not?

 

[MarkT]

as far as the nicene i don't see anything wrong with it

Except the CC is a dead branch. Just try watering this church. They can't receive instruction. Sorry.

It's a good thing God has left a few Christians, or there wouldn't be a church.

 

[GodsGrace]

you know, there isn't one verse in the Bible that says we can lose our salvation
People just take verses and make them fit.

Ha!
Isn't that what YOU do too?
Show me one verse that says you cannot lose salvation and I'll explain it for ya.

Anyway, who was talking about OSAS?

 

[Truthfrees]

Truthfrees

I can't make a new thread under
Theology !
Is it me??

I wanted to start one called
ARE WE ALLOWED TO JUDGE?

(like we had said before)

There might be something wrong??

not sure - will try yo find out

StoveBolts JohnDB

 

[GodsGrace]

I can go all the way back to the beginning if that helps. Throughout salvation history, God has consistently sought to extract a confession from man. For example, in the beginning, we read "Who told you that you were naked?" Or, "Where is your brother Abel?" I could go on and on throughout the pages of Scripture.

These were all types which culminates when God actually enters into his creation by becoming Man in the person of Jesus Christ. After His death and resurrection, on the evening of Easter, our Blessed Lord appeared to the Apostles and breathes on them. (This is significant itself given it is only the second time in Scripture where God literally breathes onto man - the first being when He breathed life into Adam.) When Jesus breathes on them, He imparts on them the Holy Ghost, and then gives them the authority to forgive sins. St. John records the event as follows...

"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, 'Peace be with you.' When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, 'Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.' And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.'” (John 20:19-23)

This is where the Christian practice of confession became a sacrament. In order for the Apostles (and their successors) to be able to forgive sins, they must first be told the sins. Hence confession, by definition, must be auricular. It has been this way from the beginning of the Church. We see this in practice in Acts when the Ephesians confess their sins to Paul in Acts 19:18. You mentioned St. Paul's epistle to the Corinthians, and to the faithful there the Apostle tells them he is charged with the "ministry of reconciliation." ( 2 Col 5:18) St. James instructs the faithful to make a confession (5:16) and St. John tells us if we confess our sins, they will be forgiven. (1 John 1:9)

Confession is practiced immediately from the Church's infancy, as testified to in the Scriptures and then in each subsequent century. (i.e. the Didache, St. Irenaeus, Origin, Tertullian, St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Basil, St. Augustine, Leo the Great, etc. etc.)

What you reference in the 13th century was the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), which did not invent the sacrament, but rather instructed the faithful to confess at least annually. (You can read it here -> http://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum12-2.htm#21)

Yes, I know about the once a year, preferably at Easter time.
Very interesting post.
I have to comment on it tomorrow though, it's getting late here and I'm pretty tired.
I do want to discuss it however.
I can't remember the didache saying much about it.
The only other comment right now is that some believe that Jesus gave the authority to the Apostles but that it ended there.

 

[GodsGrace]

Except the CC is a dead branch. Just try watering this church. They can't receive instruction. Sorry.

It's a good thing God has left a few Christians, or there wouldn't be a church.

Jesus spoke about dead branches in a PERSONAL way.
No church (small c) is perfect.
Every church has some doctrine that is not right.

We need to forget the past and concentrate on today.
We need to be more united.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Ha!
Isn't that what YOU do too?
Show me one verse that says you cannot lose salvation and I'll explain it for ya.

Anyway, who was talking about OSAS?

dumb, dumb, dumb, I was referring to the OP
That's all we should be talking about, not the catholic church
as if they have anything to do with salvation

 

[GodsGrace]

I guess what I am having difficulty understanding is why you would profess a creed composed by a Church you do not belong to, which taught things contrary to what you actually believe at the very council in which the Creed was written.

Would you recite Mormon statements of faith?

Mormons don't believe what we do.
Which part of the Nicene Creed to you think your church believes that other churches do not?

 

[Walpole]

Yes, I know about the once a year, preferably at Easter time.
Very interesting post.
I have to comment on it tomorrow though, it's getting late here and I'm pretty tired.
I do want to discuss it however.
I can't remember the didache saying much about it.
The only other comment right now is that some believe that Jesus gave the authority to the Apostles but that it ended there.

No problem...I'm here sporadically and post when something piques my interest.

We know Apostolic authority did not end with the Apostles because Scripture records them ordaining successors. Apostolic succession is integral to the answer to the question I posed earlier in this thread; for it is the guarantee of the Apostolic tradition and faith of the Church.

 

[GodsGrace]

dumb, dumb, dumb, I was referring to the OP
That's all we should be talking about, not the catholic church
as if they have anything to do with salvation

Ooooh.
Go away!
Oh. The O.P.
Right.
Forgot about that.
2
OK. You could leave now.

 

[GodsGrace]

No problem...I'm here sporadically and post when something piques my interest.

We know Apostolic authority did not end with the Apostles because Scripture records them ordaining successors. Apostolic succession is integral to the answer to the question I posed earlier in this thread; for it is the guarantee of the Apostolic tradition and faith of the Church.

Yes. I do agree to that.
Tomorrow then.

 

[Truthfrees]

Except the CC is a dead branch. Just try watering this church. They can't receive instruction. Sorry.

It's a good thing God has left a few Christians, or there wouldn't be a church.

i don't know - i'm not ready to write anyone off

i think all organized denominations are probably set in their ways - that is probably what they feel they need to do to stay true to their doctrines

 

[GodsGrace]

why not?

christian means follower of Christ and lean their faith on Jesus the Redeemer/Savior/Son of God - obey His commands - and abide in Him

everything else will come by the Holy Spirit leading them into the rest of what they need to know

can you imagine if a believer comes here and tells us he believes the red stuff and then we tell them they are not a believer because they don't agree with the list you made a few posts back?

To be cont'd.
too tired for serious stuff.

 

[Truthfrees]

To be cont'd.
too tired for serious stuff.

have a blessed rest

one other question - why are we discussing this? - is there a group you want to exclude from christianity? - you said you are not talking about denominations so am i right to assume the answer is no?

or are you thinking of individuals with strange ideas? - i'm not understanding why we are discussing how to tell who is a christian or what group is a christian group?

 

[Walpole]

Mormons don't believe what we do.

Exactly. You are making my point, as Protestants don't believe what Catholics believe. Thus, why would they use a Creed from a Church which they oppose?

Which part of the Nicene Creed to you think your church believes that other churches do not?

If you know Church history, the main reason for the Council of Nicea was to define the faith of the Church against the Arians. The Church's Creed declared Christ is homoousios, which Arius and his followers rejected. The Arians rejected it because they were sola Scriptura adherents and argued the Catholics had to go beyond Scripture to define their dogma. (Sound familiar?)

So again, why would you use a Creed from a Church which you reject? I'm just trying to understand the logic and justification for such a position.

 

[Truthfrees]

Exactly. You are making my point, as Protestants don't believe what Catholics believe. Thus, why would they use a Creed from a Church which they oppose?



If you know Church history, the main reason for the Council of Nicea was to define the faith of the Church against the Arians. The Church's Creed declared Christ is homoousios, which Arius and his followers rejected. The Arians rejected it because they were sola Scriptura adherents and argued the Catholics had to go beyond Scripture to define their dogma. (Sound familiar?)

So again, why would you use a Creed from a Church which you reject? I'm just trying to understand the logic and justification for such a position.

because it is a good creed - who cares who wrote it? - it doesn't matter who wrote it if it aligns with scripture - playing identity theology is divisive

so if one denomination believes in being born again none of the rest of us can because someone else already promoted it?

 

[Truthfrees]

Jesus spoke about dead branches in a PERSONAL way.
No church (small c) is perfect.
Every church has some doctrine that is not right.

We need to forget the past and concentrate on today.
We need to be more united.

amen - i can get into that big time

 

[stovebolts]

If you know Church history, the main reason for the Council of Nicea was to define the faith of the Church against the Arians. The Church's Creed declared Christ is homoousios, which Arius and his followers rejected. The Arians rejected it because they were sola Scriptura adherents and argued the Catholics had to go beyond Scripture to define their dogma. (Sound familiar?

very interesting conclusion. I enjoy Church history. Can you provide your source for this? I'd like to read more on that since this is the first time I've heard this take.

Do you know what I find somewhat ironic? Arius believed God the Son was not always in Union with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. As a result, he and his followers we're deemed heritics and pretty much banned from the Church.

As your already aware, East and West had two schisims where the Trinity came into play after the incident with Arius. The second one resulted in the Church dividing. (1054)

What I find ironic is how the Church can fracture and divide over an idea and can justify much bad behavior based on an idea.

At least when Rome split to produce the thousands of Protestant denominations that currently exist, it had to do with physical abuses, not high ideas of Trinity.

 

[ezra]

Is that what we're doing?

yes that is exactly what is being done.. the osas doctrine if lived right is no other different from any other.. when it was introduced it is of my understanding that is was never to be used for reason to live in and sin... having said that the Bible does not say osas/ eternal security nor does in it explicitly save one can lose there salvation.. what it does say is for us to walk worthy .. the Bible does say there is a highway of holiness "A highway will be there, a roadway, and it will be called the Highway of Holiness…it will be for him who walks that way, and fools will not wander on it." or the esv
And a highway shall be there,

and it shall be called the Way of Holiness;

the unclean shall not pass over it.

It shall belong to those who walk on the way;

even if they are fools, they shall not go astray. Isiah 35:8

paul writes about the works of the flesh in Corinthians and Galatians. Corinthians he end such as you were . Galatians he says shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven .

there are many doctrines based upon this scriptures / peter write kept by the power of God . jude says he is able to keep us from falling.. how sad we just cant agree on scriptures that tells us how we are to conduct ourselves . that is a full time job...
my last point where is the ministry of reconciliation ? restoration ? were to busy brow beating instead of trying to bring the one back that strayed from the fold .. btw i dont preach either way i preach a know so salvation . let him who has ears hear what the spirit has to say .. in the old c.b radio days we called out for a person asking got your ears on?

 

[ezra]

What I find ironic is how the Church can fracture and divide over an idea and can justify much bad behavior based on an idea.

amen to that