Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

[ezra]

i have no scripture for church attender and you have no scripture for losing salvation - so i guess we are both left with what we see for ourselves - which is fine - i don't have a problem with you thinking saved people can lose their salvation - i just happen to see that if they depart they never were saved - 1 John 2:19

on my part i am trying to a close to scripture right as i can be. could i be wrong possibly could the others be wrong possibly can we all be wrong possibly

 

[Truthfrees]

if a person has never been saved they are lost// if a person wonders off /goes a stray after salvation they have a advocate . if they stay away from the flock refuse to come back .they never was saved 9 They went out from us, " but they were not of us ;" for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have " continued " with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that < they were not all of us. > i dont know nor do you or anyone else know where the point of return might be.. i have notice no reply to my lengthy post

i agree with your pov

i also had some specific questions that no one answered yet either -

 

[JLB]

if a person has never been saved they are lost//

Who do they belong to if they are lost?




JLB

 

[JLB]

i have no scripture for church attender and you have no scripture for losing salvation -

As I said in the beginning there is no scripture for losing salvation.


Jesus is our salvation and we will receive it when He returns.


28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


Now in this life we have faith for salvation, which we will receive as an end result of our faith in Christ.


This is why we are wear, as a helmet, the hope of salvation, because we are in "the faith".


But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 1 Thessalonians 5:8



JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

on my part i am trying to a close to scripture right as i can be. could i be wrong possibly could the others be wrong possibly can we all be wrong possibly

same here - i am trying to take the scripture as literal as i can - imo lose salvation is nowhere and i'm like you on they never were saved - i agree that someone for sure is wrong - and as you said possibly all of us are wrong -

 

[JLB]

i agree with your pov

i also had some specific questions that no one answered yet either -

I answered three of your questions, and I asked you three which you have not answered.


You can find my answers in post numbers 537, 538, and 539.


Here are my three questions -


1. Based on the following scripture can a brother hate his brother and still continue to have eternal life.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



2. Based on the following scripture if a person who is in Christ, then removed from Christ, will they be cast into the fire and burned?


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


3. Based on the following scripture, if a person does believe, then later no longer believes, are they still a believer?


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:14





JLB

 

[JLB]

same here - i am trying to take the scripture as literal as i can - imo lose salvation is nowhere and i'm like you on they never were saved - i agree that someone for sure is wrong - and as you said possibly all of us are wrong -

Amen

 

[Truthfrees]

As I said in the beginning there is no scripture for losing salvation.

Jesus is our salvation and we will receive it when He returns.

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

Now in this life we have faith for salvation, which we will receive as an end result of our faith in Christ.

This is why we are wear, as a helmet, the hope of salvation, because we are in "the faith".

But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 1 Thessalonians 5:8

JLB

ok then how about this - we post no words of our own only scripture

 

[Truthfrees]

I answered three of your questions, and I asked you three which you have not answered.

not my 7 specific questions

 

[Truthfrees]

they never left judaism - Acts 24:14

 

[JLB]

Romans 10:9-10 is saved

just believing God exists is not salvation - James 2:19

Sorry bro.

Your creating more of your own narrative that run’s counter to the words of truth.


Keep in mind that Jesus knows what He Himself means by “believe”.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

Jesus Christ Himself plainly said “believe” and be saved.

When the person “believes” they are saved according to the Lord Jesus.


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


These on the rock, did in fact “believe”.

• when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These folks did in fact, according to Jesus, “believe”.

• We know these folks believed because Jesus said they “believe”.

• We know they “believed” because Jesus said they received the word, with joy.

• We know they “believe” because they were being persecuted as Christians, which is why they fell away.

JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

Your creating more of your own narrative that run’s counter to the words of truth.

no more than you are - if you want a discussion with me you will have to drop this kind of talk - choose a respectful discussion or else do not bother addressing me

 

[MarkT]

I'm sorry MT...
Like, where did the lost sheep come from?

What does it matter? It's a parable. It shows us how much God cares about us; that he is unwilling to let even one of his sheep perish. He'll search for us until he finds us. How great is his love for his sheep.

 

[ezra]

just believing God exists is not salvation - James 2:19

this is absolute truth its from the heart man believes Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
they may not believe
πιστεύσαντες (pisteusantes)
Verb - Aorist Participle Active - Nominative Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 4100: From pistis; to have faith, i.e. Credit; by implication, to entrust.

 

[JLB]

lost and found? - if they depart they never belonged?

The scripture about the lost sheep doesn’t say they never belonged.


The sheep who was lost was among the 100 justified ones, who belonged to the shepherd.


The sheep then wandered away and became lost.


If you lose something, it’s because it belongs to you.


Your trying to say the sheep never belonged to the Shepherd.


That is simply not true.

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them...

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7



I truly pray that you cease with the unhealthy narrative that if they go out and become lost, they were never saved.




JLB

 

[Kkamagwi]

We’re not saved yet …
for salvation is a process “with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12).

Warnings about losing eternal life
••• Mark 9:43 “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off.
It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall
never be quenched”
••• Luke 9:23-25 “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it (eternal life), but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost (eternally)?”
••• John 12:25 “He who loves his life will lose it (eternal life), and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.” Also Matt 16:25-26, Mark 8:35-37

Warnings about gaining eternal death
••• Romans 6:16-23 “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … For when you were slaves of sin … the end of those things is (eternal) death. … For the wages of sin is (eternal) death …”
••• Romans 8:13-14 “For if you live according to the flesh you will die (spiritually); but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live (eternal life). For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.”
••• Galatians 6:7-8 “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.”
••• 1 Timothy 6:9-10 “But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into may foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil … Let them (rich Christians) do good, that they may be rich in good works … that they may lay hold on eternal life.”
••• Hebrews 10:36-39 “ ‘Now the just shall live by faith; but IF anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.’ But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.”
••• James 1:12-16 “Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of (eternal) life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him … But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth (eternal) death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.”
••• Revelation 2:11 “He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”
Who is an overcomer? >> “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” (Revelation 3:21)
••• Revelation 21:7-8 “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Jesus is talking about anyone who is a habitual (unrepentant) sinner!

Warnings about being shut out of heaven
Mark 9:47 with Matthew 25:34-46 prove the kingdom of God is analogous to heaven.
••• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Gal. 5:19-21 and Eph. 5:3-6 are other “sin lists” about keeping people out of heaven.

Warnings about being shut out of the New Jerusalem
••• Revelation 22:14-15 “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates of the city. But outside are the dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.”

Warnings in 3 of the many conditional “IF” verses
••• 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 “Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel … by which you are saved, IF you hold fast that word which I preached to you - unless you believed in vain.”
••• 2 Corinthians 13:5 “Examine yourself to see IF you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.”
••• Hebrews 3:14 “For we have become partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.” Also see Heb.10:39 above.

Those who belong to Jesus were drawn to Him by Father God (John 6:44).
But, if they fail to remain in Jesus and produce fruit, they will be destroyed!
••• John 15:1-10 “I am the true grapevine, and My Father is the gardener. He (Father God) cuts off every branch of Mine (Jesus) that doesn’t produce fruit, … Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. … Anyone who does not remain in Me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. … Remain in My love. When you obey My commandments, you remain in My love, just as I obey My Father’s commandments and remain in His love.”

4 times in John 14, Jesus says,
“Those who love Me will obey My commandments.”

Let's place ourselves fully in God's service, serving God with sacred awe, fear, and trembling, lest we abuse God's mercy and forget God's love. "Be afraid that you may not please God." - Philippians 2:12b (NLV).

 

[JLB]

What does it matter? It's a parable. It shows us how much God cares about us; that he is unwilling to let even one of his sheep perish. He'll search for us until he finds us. How great is his love for his sheep.

His love is great for His sheep, even the ones who go astray.


Thank you and praise you forever Lord Jesus.


It’s not about, how much Jesus loves the Sheep, it’s about how much “we” love Jesus, and we who are called to tend His sheep, love His sheep.


Jesus doesn’t go after any sheep.

Jesus is in heaven.

He finished His work.

Now, it’s up to the Church, to go after the sheep who become lost.

That’s what Jesus was teaching His disciples.


He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?”He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Tend My sheep.” John 21:16

• Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.

• But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’

• And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17





JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

The scripture about the lost sheep doesn’t say they never belonged.
The sheep who was lost was among the 100 justified ones, who belonged to the shepherd.
The sheep then wandered away and became lost.
If you lose something, it’s because it belongs to you.

true

Your trying to say the sheep never belonged to the Shepherd.
That is simply not true.
What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them...
“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

i didn't that say at all anywhere as you couldn't provide a quote of me saying this

I truly pray that you cease with the unhealthy narrative that if they go out and become lost, they were never saved.
JLB

i truly pray you stop accusing me of saying things i didn't

 

[stovebolts]

Truthfrees ,
I went back and read a few pages. I think your disconnect with JLB centers around the concept of what it means to be lost.

Based on the verse from 1 John you quoted earlier, it appears to me that you pair those who are "Lost" with those who never truly belonged.

On the other hand, JLB used the parable of the seed to show that lost, really means one who believed, but walked away from the faith.

Honestly, I think this is where some good old proper exegesis comes in. Get to the intent of the parable and then redact...

 

[Truthfrees]

Truthfrees ,
I went back and read a few pages. I think your disconnect with JLB centers around the concept of what it means to be lost.

Based on the verse from 1 John you quoted earlier, it appears to me that you pair those who are "Lost" with those who never truly belonged.

On the other hand, JLB used the parable of the seed to show that lost, really means one who believed, but walked away from the faith.

Honestly, I think this is where some good old proper exegesis comes in. Get to the intent of the parable and then redact...

i guess the problem from my pov is that when i was given a specific scripture(s) to comment on i did -

then the last post i was NOT given a scripture to comment on - i was TOLD i said something about that scripture - which i did not - and then i was accused of an unhealthy narrative

imo the red part is a breach of trust to be ASKED about 3 scriptures and then TOLD i said something about a 4rth scripture

to me it seems like a setup/entrapment/cagey way to participate in a discussion