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    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

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What happens after he finds his sheep which was lost in the wilderness? There is rejoicing.

But then the rejoicing is premature if the sheep can become lost again. Can the sheep lose their salvation?


Their is rejoicing because he was lost, then he was found.


Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’



People that are lost need salvation.


The way they gain salvation when they are lost, is to repent.


I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.


A just person is righteous.

A sinner is not righteous.


Sinner -

  1. devoted to sin, a sinner
    1. not free from sin
    2. pre-eminently sinful, especially wicked
      1. all wicked men
      2. specifically of men stained with certain definite vices or crimes
        1. tax collectors, heathen



Sinners must repent in order to be justified; right with God.






JLB
 
Last edited:
Yes sir.

He is not saved any longer.



JLB

Never was saved. There is a reason why Jesus said the second person had no root.

Keep the premise. He has no root. This is why he falls away.

Matthew 13:6
but when the sun rose they were scorched; and since they had no root they withered away.
Matthew 13:21
yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.

He does not bear fruit. The parable doesn't say he bears fruit for a while.

“Either make the tree good, and its fruit good; or make the tree bad, and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. Mt. 12:33

You can't say he bears fruit for a while and then he bears bad fruit.
 
Their is rejoicing because he was lost, then he was found.


Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’



People that are lost need salvation.


The way they gain salvation when they are lost, is to repent.


I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.


A just person is righteous.

A sinner is not righteous.


Sinner -

  1. devoted to sin, a sinner
    1. not free from sin
    2. pre-eminently sinful, especially wicked
      1. all wicked men
      2. specifically of men stained with certain definite vices or crimes
        1. tax collectors, heathen


Sinners must repent in order to be justified; right with God.






JLB

After the sinner repents and is saved, is he always saved?
 
After the sinner repents and is saved, is he always saved?


The sheep belonged to the Shepherd.


The sheep then wandered away and became lost.


He then repented and returned to the Shepherd, and was restored back to a place of justification.



JLB
 
Hmmm.

To study Scripture is a good thing, but one needs some background to do so accurately?

Jesus talked "only" to the Jews... before His resurrection, His ministry was to the Jews. Remember what they believed? They were looking forward, to the coming of the Messiah. They had to do works...mainly the sacrifices in the temple, the atonement for the year's sins which kept them for another year...

Compare the theology after Jesus' resurrection when the Word went out to the Gentiles as well....

New Covenant. Paul, who was then called to the ministry of the Gospel to the Gentiles, wrote to the Jews about, well, if you want to keep acting as though the Messiah had not come, then continue in your works efforts which will not be sufficient. Don't mix the two (as some new believers in the Messiah (Christ in Greek) were trying to combine the two beliefs, the 2 Covenants...

There are far too many Scriptures saying a person can NOT lose his/her salvation. One of them says NO MAN.... can pluck them. (John 10:29 My Father, which gave them to me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.)
I read where someone said yes but you can give it up... no... NO MAN (no one) unless that person isn't human and not in need of salvation, he or she cannot even himself/herself... WHY? Because no one is stronger than God. His Spirit SEALS the believer until the day of redemption! Man cannot break the seal. (Ephesians 4:20
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 1:13 In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise .)

(John 10:9 “I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture” ) That's a promise of God.

(John 14:14 "If ye shall ask any thing in My name, I will do it." ) That's a promise of God.

(Acts 16:30-31 "Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." ) That's a promise of God.

(Romans10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the Name of the LORD shall be saved.") That's a promise of God.

God keeps His promises.
Deuteronomy 7:9; 2 Peter 3:8-9

God does not lie (He cannot--everything God says comes to be!)
I Samuel 15:29 "And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent."

God does not change.
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;


These are but a few of the Scripture God has given us in written Word form....

New Covenant believers cannot lose their salvation. A believer has nothing to do with the saving of his spirit except to ask for God's salvation through Jesus. If there was something we could do to obtain it, yes then we could lose it, but since it is a work of God, we can't change it.

You can argue or debate Scriptures all you wish about why some will not take salvation or pretend to accept Jesus and not and then look like he lost it etc., but we need to be very cautious about speaking things that would negate what God has decreed.


Personally, I believe that this type of guilt inflicted upon a believer is not from God... that it is part and parcel what Paul wrote about as the "sin that so easily besets us" in Hebrews 12... that if we are kept under a feeling that we can lose our salvation, we surely cannot live under the freedom that God gives us and wants us to enjoy life with... but are constantly worried and working to do something or not do something that would affect our salvation and thereby NOT being able to do the work of Christ in leading others to this great salvation!
 
There are far too many Scriptures saying a person can NOT lose his/her salvation.
There are likewise many, many verses that warn about proper behavior and conduct, falling away, separation of the goats from the sheep, etc.
 
No problem. His sheep are those who believe and keep his commandments. So are they always saved?


If they continue to hear and obey the Lord they will not wander away from Him, and become lost.


If they continue to disobey Him, then they may wander away again, and become lost again.


Ever hear of the story about the the lamb that was constantly wandering away, and the shepherd kept having to go and find it.


Finally, he had enough and broke one of the lambs legs.


He mended it, and carried the lamb with him until it’s leg healed.


The lamb learned to stay close.


That’s me.


The one with four broken legs who hobbles along, right at the Masters feet.

That way, His rod and His staff comfort me, because I stay within reach of it.




JLB
 
There are far too many Scriptures saying a person can NOT lose his/her salvation


Please post one for us to examine.



Meanwhile, here is what Paul said to the “Gentile” Christians,
Which is the same for the “Jewish Christians”.

To the Galatians Christians -


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

Key Phrase -

  • that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God


To the Corinthian Christians -


Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10



Key Phrase -


  • Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.



To the Roman Christians -


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


Key Phrase -

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality


Key Phrase -

  • but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,



and again


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


Key Phrase -


  • who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.





JLB
 
(John 10:29 My Father, which gave them to me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.)


The condition for not being plucked out of His Fathers hand is found in the context.


  • My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.



My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
John 10:27-29


Let’s please use the context, when discussing doctrine.



JLB
 
that it is part and parcel what Paul wrote about as the "sin that so easily besets us" in Hebrews 12... that if we are kept under a feeling that we can lose our salvation, we surely cannot live under the freedom that God gives us and wants us to enjoy life with...


Actually it’s the “sin” that besets us and keeps us in bondage, so that we do not walk in the freedom from sin, to live the life of love, righteousness, peace, and blessing, that God wants us to enjoy.



JLB
 
Never was saved. There is a reason why Jesus said the second person had no root.

Keep the premise. He has no root. This is why he falls away.

Matthew 13:6
but when the sun rose they were scorched; and since they had no root they withered away.
Matthew 13:21
yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.

He does not bear fruit. The parable doesn't say he bears fruit for a while.

“Either make the tree good, and its fruit good; or make the tree bad, and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. Mt. 12:33

You can't say he bears fruit for a while and then he bears bad fruit.
You sure do add a lot to scripture.

Some become lost after salvation.
Why? Different reasons.
They have little root...
Tribulation comes their way...
Jesus stated this.

I think Jesus knew what He meant to say and said it.

Luke 8:13
13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

JESUS said they believed for a while... Did He mean this or not? Did Jesus know what BELIEVE means or not?
For the while that they BELIEVED, they were saved with joy.
When temptation came, they FELL AWAY.

What did they fall away from?
THEIR BELIEF.
They became lost.

As to the fruit, that's a different verse.
I'm not sure WHICH verse you mean...
Matthew 7...Matthew 12 ?

In either case Jesus is saying that a good tree brings forth good fruit...
a bad tree brings forth bad fruit...
What has this to do with Luke 8?
 
Hmmm.

To study Scripture is a good thing, but one needs some background to do so accurately?

Jesus talked "only" to the Jews... before His resurrection, His ministry was to the Jews. Remember what they believed? They were looking forward, to the coming of the Messiah. They had to do works...mainly the sacrifices in the temple, the atonement for the year's sins which kept them for another year...

Compare the theology after Jesus' resurrection when the Word went out to the Gentiles as well....

New Covenant. Paul, who was then called to the ministry of the Gospel to the Gentiles, wrote to the Jews about, well, if you want to keep acting as though the Messiah had not come, then continue in your works efforts which will not be sufficient. Don't mix the two (as some new believers in the Messiah (Christ in Greek) were trying to combine the two beliefs, the 2 Covenants...

There are far too many Scriptures saying a person can NOT lose his/her salvation. One of them says NO MAN.... can pluck them. (John 10:29 My Father, which gave them to me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.)
I read where someone said yes but you can give it up... no... NO MAN (no one) unless that person isn't human and not in need of salvation, he or she cannot even himself/herself... WHY? Because no one is stronger than God. His Spirit SEALS the believer until the day of redemption! Man cannot break the seal. (Ephesians 4:20
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 1:13 In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise .)

(John 10:9 “I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture” ) That's a promise of God.

(John 14:14 "If ye shall ask any thing in My name, I will do it." ) That's a promise of God.

(Acts 16:30-31 "Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." ) That's a promise of God.

(Romans10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the Name of the LORD shall be saved.") That's a promise of God.

God keeps His promises.
Deuteronomy 7:9; 2 Peter 3:8-9

God does not lie (He cannot--everything God says comes to be!)
I Samuel 15:29 "And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent."

God does not change.
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;


These are but a few of the Scripture God has given us in written Word form....

New Covenant believers cannot lose their salvation. A believer has nothing to do with the saving of his spirit except to ask for God's salvation through Jesus. If there was something we could do to obtain it, yes then we could lose it, but since it is a work of God, we can't change it.

You can argue or debate Scriptures all you wish about why some will not take salvation or pretend to accept Jesus and not and then look like he lost it etc., but we need to be very cautious about speaking things that would negate what God has decreed.


Personally, I believe that this type of guilt inflicted upon a believer is not from God... that it is part and parcel what Paul wrote about as the "sin that so easily besets us" in Hebrews 12... that if we are kept under a feeling that we can lose our salvation, we surely cannot live under the freedom that God gives us and wants us to enjoy life with... but are constantly worried and working to do something or not do something that would affect our salvation and thereby NOT being able to do the work of Christ in leading others to this great salvation!
You've listed too many verses about becoming lost.
Pick one and it could be discussed...
Because NONE of them proves anything about eternal security.

Jesus and Paul taught EXACTLY the same doctrine...there is no difference.

Do you suppose Jesus was a little dumb when He was teaching in His ministry....and then realized His silly mistake and threw Paul off the horse so Paul could teach the "truth"?

Please show where they teach a different doctrine.

BTW, it IS possible to abandon the New Covenant.
And it would be nice to hear how you think the New Covenant and the Mosaic Covenant are different.
 
How do you know one was saved if he discontinues to believe?:cross
How do YOU know he wasn't?

This "never was saved" to begin with is a man-made contraption to be able to prove OSAS.

The bible says we are saved by confessing Jesus.
Romans 10:9

So IF someone says they are saved and believe in Jesus...
they ARE...according to what your group believes.

So why do you STOP believing this when they decide to STOP believing?? Just to suit your doctrine?

Would you care to explain
Mathew 5:13? Jesus said:
13“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. "
 
How do you know one was saved if he discontinues to believe?:cross


If he believes in the first place.


That’s between God and the person.


19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
2 Timothy 2:19


  • “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”


Christians are called to depart from iniquity.


Not depart from the faith.





JLB
 
How do YOU know he wasn't?

This "never was saved" to begin with is a man-made contraption to be able to prove OSAS.

The bible says we are saved by confessing Jesus.
Romans 10:9

So IF someone says they are saved and believe in Jesus...
they ARE...according to what your group believes.

So why do you STOP believing this when they decide to STOP believing?? Just to suit your doctrine?

Would you care to explain
Mathew 5:13? Jesus said:
13“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. "
Lol, why do you keep saying my group?
So dumb.
My group would beat up on that group because my group is right.
God forbid you should ever quote what I told you I believe.
 
Lol, why do you keep saying my group?
So dumb.
My group would beat up on that group because my group is right.
God forbid you should ever quote what I told you I believe.
There are two groups, as it seems to me.
One group believes we can become lost again at some point and for different reasons.

The other group believes that once we walk down an isle and "accept" Jesus,,, we can never lose our salvation.

I've heard it said that a person can sin all they want to and still be saved.

I'm not referring to you here...I know you don't believe this.

However, that doctrine does bring one to believing this in its extreme.
 
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There are two groups, as it seems to me.
One group believes we can become lost again at some point and for different reasons.

The other group believes that once we walk down an isle and "accept" Jesus,,, we can never lose our salvation.

I've heard it said that a person can sin all they want to and still be saved.

I'm not referring to you here...I know you don't believe this.

However, that doctrine does bring one to believing this in its extreme.
Oh, thank you lovely lady for the sweet reply.
I knew there was a reason I always liked you.
 
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