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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation
- Thread starter Senior
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Now now dear, don't get upset.
James 2:19;
"You believe that there is one God.
Good! Even the demons believe that and shudder.
So James compares some people who claim to believe in Jesus with demons.
I hope God never puts me in that class.
If you look at Young's Literal Translation, you see a continue stream of believing that means to believe forever, that saying you believe for a time is not believing at all.
Why is it that some people want to prove people can walk away from God when it does nothing to build the body of Christ.
Why not talk positively about the life in Christ?
No where in Scripture does it say "if you are saved and you then choose to no longer believe in Jesus, you will lose your salvation"
Why doesn't it say that?
Why do you have to read into verses to make it fit?
Why doesn't it say that?
Why do you have to read into verses to make it fit?
The condition for being saved is to believe.
If you believe for a while then you are saved for a while.
- if you hold fast that word which I preached to you
Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:1-2
We must believe and continue to believe, otherwise our initial believing was in vain.
Do you have any scriptures that teach us those who believe for a while, then return to unbelieving, are still saved?
JLB
I already explained what John 15 is about. Bearing fruit. Not "how to hold onto your salvation".
Also, if your claim were true, then John 10:28 would have to say something like this:
I give them eternal life, and as long as they continue to abide in Me, they shall never perish.
Or, instead of those red words, how about these red words:
if they continue to abide in Me
What I notice when I read John 10:28 is that there are no such conditional wording between being given eternal life and never perishing.
That can mean only one thing. Those given eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.
That is exactly what Jesus said. There are no conditions beyond being given eternal life, which is through faith in Christ, in order to never perish.
Believers you are persecuted and fall away from Him are not longer saved because they no longer believe.
It’s very simple.
JLB
Do you believe, those who are no longer in Him and cast into the fire and burned, continue to have eternal life?
JLB
Believe for a while is the exact words used.
They once believed, then later they no longer believed and fell away.
Do you believe they are still saved?
JLB
ezra
Member
hmmm your persistent aint..you? i said the terms once saved always saved and you can lose /walk away from salivation is not there.. to say you no longer believe would make one a atheist ,, where does it say no longer believe ? the term fall way is used in hebrews and in time of temptation fall away. luke They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have " no root " no root no nutrients--the plant may have sprouted but it never fully developed making it not ever a real plant .. i can sprout seed in a wet wash rag leave it in the dark after few day have a sprout.. all im trying convey is these who fell away had no root. they never was saved... can a person completely walk away denounce Christ and be lost again . apostasy comes in to play
APOSTASY; APOSTATE
a-pos'-ta-si, a-pos'-tat (he apostasia, "a standing away from"):
I.e. a falling away, a withdrawal, a defection. Not found in the English Versions of the Bible, but used twice in the New Testament, in the Greek original, to express abandonment of the faith. Paul was falsely accused of teaching the Jews apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21); he predicted the great apostasy from Christianity, foretold by Jesus (Matthew 24:10-12) which would precede "the day of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 2:2). Apostasy, not in name but in fact, meets scathing rebuke in the Epistle of Jude, e.g. the apostasy of angels (Jude 1:6). Foretold, with warnings, as sure to abound in the latter days (1 Timothy 4:1-3; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; 2 Peter 3:17). Causes of: persecution (Matthew 24:9,10); false teachers (Matthew 24:11); temptation (Luke 8:13); worldliness (2 Timothy 4:4); defective knowledge of Christ (1John 2:19); moral lapse (Hebrews 6:4-6); forsaking worship and spiritual living (Hebrews 10:25-31); unbelief (Hebrews 3:12). Biblical examples: Saul (1 Samuel 15:11); Amaziah (2 Chronicles 25:14,27); many disciples (John 6:66); Hymeneus and Alexander (1 Timothy 1:19,20); Demas (2 Timothy 4:10). For further illustration see Deuteronomy 13:13; Zec 1:4-6;Galatians 5:4; 2 Peter 2:20,2
just not sure they was truly saved.. i know folks who has got out of Church living fleshly life style But the still believe in God and Christ and the Bible .the million dollar question are they still saved ? we can give our opinion..but do we really have that right? according to the Bible no God will judge the secrets of man by heart by his son Jesus are they in sin yes are we to go to them and try to restore yes yes yes.. another question how often do we? --
answer this to be honest i dont think jude was saved compared by his actions betrayed Christ hung himself . peter cussed denied Christ--- no difference in the sins... peter repented he still had his moments .he said i go a fishing .even after that he repented .not long after that. he preached at Pentecost. even did some writting of the scriptures .... can you see my point one came back one never one was not rooted one was .the old expression came back to his roots...
i do not take you as someone who does not study .. nor as one who has not been around ..your example of the male female marijuana plants... not many understands this concept... so you either been around the Block or studied on this..been in law enforcement.
so in this disagreement i am not taking you as being ignorant of the word... i have met them all they know is what thus saith preacher said or mom/dad/gma/gpa
APOSTASY; APOSTATE
a-pos'-ta-si, a-pos'-tat (he apostasia, "a standing away from"):
I.e. a falling away, a withdrawal, a defection. Not found in the English Versions of the Bible, but used twice in the New Testament, in the Greek original, to express abandonment of the faith. Paul was falsely accused of teaching the Jews apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21); he predicted the great apostasy from Christianity, foretold by Jesus (Matthew 24:10-12) which would precede "the day of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 2:2). Apostasy, not in name but in fact, meets scathing rebuke in the Epistle of Jude, e.g. the apostasy of angels (Jude 1:6). Foretold, with warnings, as sure to abound in the latter days (1 Timothy 4:1-3; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; 2 Peter 3:17). Causes of: persecution (Matthew 24:9,10); false teachers (Matthew 24:11); temptation (Luke 8:13); worldliness (2 Timothy 4:4); defective knowledge of Christ (1John 2:19); moral lapse (Hebrews 6:4-6); forsaking worship and spiritual living (Hebrews 10:25-31); unbelief (Hebrews 3:12). Biblical examples: Saul (1 Samuel 15:11); Amaziah (2 Chronicles 25:14,27); many disciples (John 6:66); Hymeneus and Alexander (1 Timothy 1:19,20); Demas (2 Timothy 4:10). For further illustration see Deuteronomy 13:13; Zec 1:4-6;Galatians 5:4; 2 Peter 2:20,2
just not sure they was truly saved.. i know folks who has got out of Church living fleshly life style But the still believe in God and Christ and the Bible .the million dollar question are they still saved ? we can give our opinion..but do we really have that right? according to the Bible no God will judge the secrets of man by heart by his son Jesus are they in sin yes are we to go to them and try to restore yes yes yes.. another question how often do we? --
answer this to be honest i dont think jude was saved compared by his actions betrayed Christ hung himself . peter cussed denied Christ--- no difference in the sins... peter repented he still had his moments .he said i go a fishing .even after that he repented .not long after that. he preached at Pentecost. even did some writting of the scriptures .... can you see my point one came back one never one was not rooted one was .the old expression came back to his roots...
i do not take you as someone who does not study .. nor as one who has not been around ..your example of the male female marijuana plants... not many understands this concept... so you either been around the Block or studied on this..been in law enforcement.
so in this disagreement i am not taking you as being ignorant of the word... i have met them all they know is what thus saith preacher said or mom/dad/gma/gpa
If a brother in Christ, wanders away from Him and becomes lost, he is in need of salvation; The saving, delivering and rescuing of our entire being from the wrath of God, which is the second death, the lake of fire.
- he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death
Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20
JLB
Because we're not supposed to build up the Body of Christ with untruths. We're to build each other up but with the truth.
I just don't find eternal security in the New Testament.
I don't hear Jesus teaching this....I hear warnings about our salvation.
Ditto for Paul, Peter, James, John....
Ditto for the ECFs that KNEW the Apostles. They also did not believe in eternal security.
I'd post them but then I'm told they don't cound.
That's like saying someone who wrote a biography of Kennedy knows LESS about him than someone who wrote what he believed 1,500 years after 1963 !
OSAS did not EXIST till the year 1,500. Could you please tell me what was wrong with the theologians that came before...were they dumb?
Why is the N.T. FILLED with warnings if they don't count for anything except getting a crown or two. Who cares how many crowns they get that the N.T. writers should be so concerned with this???
NO. There are so many warnings for a very important reason....We could lose our salvation!
Someone on this very thread declared yesterday that one could sin all he wants to and STILL be saved! This is a lie and could cause some to lose their salvation.
I think it's more important to make persons understand they could lose their salvation....then build up the Body with an untruth.
Amen.
We are to encourage each other to continue in the faith, that we all may enter the kingdom of God on that Day.
- strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith,
And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” Acts 14:21-22
JLB
John 10:27-29 ESV / 241 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Open Bible.info
Is this not Eternal Security?
But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Matthew 13:20-21
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:12-13
The condition Jesus gives us for salvation is to believe.
- lest they should believe and be saved.
These folks in group 2 did in fact believe.
What did they fall away from if they were never saved?
- The phrase “received the word” indicates believing the Gospel.
- Jesus said they believed.
- The reason they fell away was because they were being persecuted as Christians; Believers.
JLB