Some of the serious NT warnings to the churches

[iLOVE]

Well first I did not see that it was you Ilove, because I have seen and known the truth of Gods love in you.

I must say that your picture with the heart and sword kinda threw me off.

But having said that, your translation of those scriptures do not represent the truth of what is written in the Greek.

For in the Greek the point is clear that in Him we have no sin and cannot sin.
Speaking of our justified and sinless condition in Christ. In the spirit. There is no way to translate those scriptures to mean that we cant go on sinning. But that we cannot sin.

Now again I do not know your translation, you did not post it?

It could be that you have assumed this understanding, if you have you are in error and are keeping yourself from understanding a great truth of the gospel.

In Christ "in spirit" we are justified from all sin, and blessed is the man "or woman" in whom the Lord will not impute sin.

This is the truth John is speaking of.
The righteousness he speaks of has not changed from what Paul taught! It is the righteousness of faith. Not lawkeeping!

Lawlessness is those who claim to keep the law, yet break the law. Just as Paul wrote. You cannot change the meaning of the terms, nor add or take away words. For when you do, you do harm to yourself and others.

As far as those who seem so worried about other peoples sin? I doubt any of them have been called to the ministry of finding fault in others? They themselves are in the flesh and are judging others by the flesh.

Blessings,

A person that sins is forgiven. A person that practice sin is in sin. They have fallen from grace. Example of a person that practice sin; homosexuals, doctors that perform abortions, thiefs, fornacators, habitual liars, ect.. Grace teaches you to live righteous, Godly, and to be zealous. Graces teaches you to deny ungodliness and world lusts. This is why the bible tells us don't be fooled! Whoever practice sin is of the Devil. This is why you don't mix good with evil. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act.

Please review 1 John 3:1-10, James 4, Titus 2:11-15

 

[Mitspa]

Blessings,

A person that sins is forgiven. A person that practice sin is in sin. They have fallen from grace. Example of a person that practice sin; homosexuals, doctors that perform abortions, thiefs, fornacators, habitual liars, ect.. Grace teaches you to live righteous, Godly, and to be zealous. Graces teaches you to deny ungodliness and world lusts. This is why the bible tells us don't be fooled! Whoever practice sin is of the Devil. This why you don't mix good with evil. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act.

Please review 1 John 3:1-10, James 4, Titus 2:11-15

Well I have studied these scriptures, and like I mentioned, i do not think your translation is correct, nor does it show the truth that John was trying to reveal.

All scripture is given in context of those who have heard and know the gospel of Paul. That the strength of sin is the law, the power over sin comes as we walk in the grace of God, in the spirit.
So I say that most of those who are finding certain scriptures and bringing them forth to warn others, should warn themselves. Because in most cases they have no understanding of Gods grace and love and are in no position to teach or warn others.

The gospel is a great light, if any scripture is taken from that light is becomes darkness.
Paul and other apostles had established the gospel of Gods grace to those in whom they where writting. They knew they were not under the law, they knew the power of God and His grace. They were established in grace and then they were corrected in that light. So to bring out random scriptures of warning and attempt to lay them upon others, is just not biblically correct, nor has God given athority to the ones I see doing such things. You who are spiritual, correct in meekness.

Not you who are religious nor those who are still yet in bondage to their own flesh.

I do not lay this charge against you, but I would warn those who seek to warn others. This is not a hobby nor a game and you will be judged by the same judgemnt ye met to others.

Make sure you have gotten your own log out, before you go digging around in others eyes.

Like I said, before satan is the accuser and Christ is the justifier.
Be careful that you are not as those in whom the Lord rebuked? Saying you know not what spirit you are of.

 

[iLOVE]

Well I have studied these scriptures, and like I mentioned, i do not think your translation is correct, nor does it show the truth that John was trying to reveal.

All scripture is given in context of those who have heard and know the gospel of Paul. That the strength of sin is the law, the power over sin comes as we walk in the grace of God, in the spirit.
So I say that most of those who are finding certain scriptures and bringing them forth to warn others, should warn themselves. Because in most cases they have no understanding of Gods grace and love and are in no position to teach or warn others.

The gospel is a great light, if any scripture is taken from that light is becomes darkness.
Paul and other apostles had established the gospel of Gods grace to those in whom they where writting. They knew they were not under the law, they knew the power of God and His grace. They were established in grace and then they were corrected in that light. So to bring out random scriptures of warning and attempt to lay them upon others, is just not biblically correct, nor has God given athority to the ones I see doing such things. You who are spiritual, correct in meekness.

Not you who are religious nor those who are still yet in bondage to their own flesh.

I do not lay this charge against you, but I would warn those who seek to warn others. This is not a hobby nor a game and you will be judged by the same judgemnt ye met to others.

Make sure you have gotten your own log out, before you go digging around in others eyes.

Like I said, before satan is the accuser and Christ is the justifier.
Be careful that you are not as those in whom the Lord rebuked? Saying you know not what spirit you are of.

I will never Judge! Nor do I come with evil that you have strongly implied! However the church must teach right from wrong. Jesus came not to destroy lives, but to save them...the Rapture is imminent imo! Why should anyone that attends church be left behind because of not knowing the truth because of preachers bad teaching. Jesus said, "if you love me you will obey me." Do you love Him? DO YOU LOVE HIM?

Please explain the text. Do you believe a person that practice sin(s) is under grace and not of the Devil?

"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to." Luke 13:24

 

[Mitspa]

I will never Judge! Nor do I come with evil that you have strongly implied! However the church must teach right from wrong. Jesus came not to destroy lives, but to save them...the Rapture is imminent imo! Why should anyone that attends church be left behind because of not knowing the truth because of preachers bad teaching. Jesus said, "if you love me you will obey me." Do you love Him? DO YOU LOVE HIM?

Please explain the text. Do you believe a person that practice sin(s) is under grace and not of the Devil?

"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to." Luke 13:24

Who is it that went about accusing others of sin? The parisee who went about doing good and forgiving sins? Jesus
Who always got upset when Jesus forgave others the pharisee, the children of the devil.. The accuser

Same Jesus same satan at work today.

The strength of sin is the law, the power over sin is grace.

I have taken great effort to explain my position, I do not believe that you understand those scripture and seem to have no desire to learn? So I would tell you and all those who think God has called them to warn others? warn yourself, judge yourself, teach yourself! The name of God is blasphemed because or those who look for fault in others and do not judge themselves. Get the log out of your own eye, jugde not least ye be judged etc......

 

[iLOVE]

Blessings,

I come not to bring strife. You continue to imply I judge, that is incorrect. You have been shown the scriptures but you have only stated that the text did not mean how I applied it because of the greek translation is different. If God has stated it in the KJV I read 5-8 hours a day from, I believe every word.

Just because a person said the sinners prayer doesn't mean it took. As I was reminded Jesus taught about hell also.

 

[vocalyocal]

Blessings,

A person that sins is forgiven. A person that practice sin is in sin. They have fallen from grace. Example of a person that practice sin; homosexuals, doctors that perform abortions, thiefs, fornacators, habitual liars, ect.. Grace teaches you to live righteous, Godly, and to be zealous. Graces teaches you to deny ungodliness and world lusts. This is why the bible tells us don't be fooled! Whoever practice sin is of the Devil. This why you don't mix good with evil. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act.

Please review 1 John 3:1-10, James 4, Titus 2:11-15

this registers as truth with the Holy Spirit deposited in me!

 

[iLOVE]

this registers as truth with the Holy Spirit deposited in me!

Thank you. Grace is very powerful. On 2-26-12 our only child went to be with Jesus in heaven from malpractice (Satan hardened the hearts of the paramedics, doctors and nurses that night). On 2-26-13 instead of being a sad day with tears and a broken heart, God show us on this day there is no reason to pray into the supernatural for comfort, there is no need for Him to bring a person to us that has been anointed to bring comfort. Instead we were shown the Glory of God! God's grace and presence! God made sure you knew He was with us by stopping the heavy rain completely the moment we got out the vehicle. The moment we entered the vehicle it began to rain heavy again. My wife and I rejoiced that day instead of being broken knowing God love us and someday day we will be able to go to him in heaven. You see our son left the greatest message behind on face book so everyone in the world could see. It read " I LOVE GOD" in all caps. This was his last post just before he became ill. He obeyed the greatest commandment ever given by Lord Jesus Christ! I often think about the glory God received when our son was called home.

 

[4Jesus]

I would be discouraged, too. I started out in the charismatic movement. They tend to measure spirituality by their emotional response to the truths of God. That bothered me, even though I'm a very emotional person. I eventually learned what true spirituality, that confirmed the faith that produced it, looks like (in addition to other qualities):

"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control." (Galatians 5:22-23 NIV1984)

This is what we are to strive to produce in accordance with faith in Christ. It's not that there is no place for emotions in a relationship with Christ. It's just that emotions, along with outward religious duty, are a poor and deceitful measure of spirituality by themselves.

I know many Christ rejectors are sure they have the evidence of relationship with God and are, therefore, saved by a God they insist either doesn't exist or is different than the Bible portrays him to be, so the subject requires a little explanation, but fundamentally, it is the character that is growing up into the image of Christ that indicates true salvation.

For the Church, the nature of unstable, shifting, unpredictable, and ever-changing human emotions, that mostly depend on circumstances of body and life, alone is a very poor way to measure the grace of God in a person's life (again, not discounting emotions altogether). It is when you can see yourself being conformed to the image and character of God despite the discomforts of body and circumstances that you can be sure that the hope and confidence you have for salvation is real:

10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things (the qualities of the Spirit he just listed--see text), you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 1:10-11 NIV)

Very good explanation. I definitely agree.

In regard to the faith to believe that God forgives sins through Christ Jesus I'd say this is not true at all. You have to believe this to the point of being born again. A partial faith about Christ won't do that.

This may very well be the fundamental problem in the church today. Lot's of people who know Jesus is the Christ, and who go through many of the outward religious motions, and emotions, of faith, but who haven't truly come to a complete faith and trust in Him. The sin issue never quite gets settled for them with God and they languish outside of the grace of God, but by all worldly appearances they appear devout.

This is something I don't think I ever really understood. I always thought you either believe Jesus or you don't. I've heard of partial faith, false faith, dead faith, pretend believers, etc. It never made sense to me. I know I have faith. I hope it's enough faith and the right kind of faith. All I know is I believe in Jesus.

If by partial faith you mean someone who just believes Jesus is the Christ but rejects much of his teaching then I'd agree someone could have a partial faith. If someone believes all of what Jesus taught then I'd hope that's enough.

...The key being that what the person believes can be seen in what a person who genuinely believes becomes--a new creation that walks by the fruit of the Spirit (more and more).

Lot's of people acknowledge the truth. Few truly surrender their lives to it. That surrender is how we can tell if we truly believe the gospel message. Most twist it, and rationalize it away, and conform it to their own liking and never enter into the transformed life that genuine faith in Christ brings. They will be sorely disappointed on the Day of Wrath.

The increase we bring to the seed and the talent of the Word of God that Christ will be looking for when he returns is the actual deeds of the Spirit, not just lip service or religious duty. You can't be saved on the Day of Wrath holding a fistful of seeds or a few talents of knowledge that you did nothing with. Christ is looking for increase. It's one thing to agree Jesus is the Christ and accept scripture as God given. It's quite another to live it. That's how you bring increase to your knowledge of God. Live it, act on it, according to the fruit of the Spirit. Only genuine, justifying faith can do that.

That makes sense. A person has to believe in Jesus and live to please Him. A person's actions show whether he truly believes.

 

[4Jesus]

Blessings,

A person that sins is forgiven. A person that practice sin is in sin. They have fallen from grace. Example of a person that practice sin; homosexuals, doctors that perform abortions, thiefs, fornacators, habitual liars, ect.. Grace teaches you to live righteous, Godly, and to be zealous. Graces teaches you to deny ungodliness and world lusts. This is why the bible tells us don't be fooled! Whoever practice sin is of the Devil. This why you don't mix good with evil. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act.

Please review 1 John 3:1-10, James 4, Titus 2:11-15

Registers as truth to me also.

 

[4Jesus]

Who is it that went about accusing others of sin? The parisee who went about doing good and forgiving sins? Jesus
Who always got upset when Jesus forgave others the pharisee, the children of the devil.. The accuser

Same Jesus same satan at work today.

The strength of sin is the law, the power over sin is grace.

I have taken great effort to explain my position, I do not believe that you understand those scripture and seem to have no desire to learn? So I would tell you and all those who think God has called them to warn others? warn yourself, judge yourself, teach yourself! The name of God is blasphemed because or those who look for fault in others and do not judge themselves. Get the log out of your own eye, jugde not least ye be judged etc......

Jesus said there are two ways. There is a narrow road that leads to Heaven and a wide road that leads to Hell. Those who understand and believe will chose the path to Heaven. Those who continue to sin and live in sin show that they either don't believe or don't understand what God requires of us. Simply accepting Jesus as Savior is not enough. Repentance is required. I think someone who loves his neighbor would want to warn him if he's on the path that leads to Hell especially if that person thought he was guaranteed to go to Heaven simply because he called Jesus his Savior.

 

[iLOVE]

Just for clarification; when a Christian Believer falls out of grace with God, does not mean they lose their salvation. You are just cut off from God.
If you have received salvation through Jesus, God calls you righteous. He also calls you His beloved. A person might ask, “What does it mean to be “made” righteous?” Romans 4:3 tells us, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness” Romans 3:22 (NLT) says we are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ, and that this is true for everyone who believes—no matter who we are. Similar references appear throughout the Bible. It is unanimous! God’s requirement for imputing or crediting us with righteousness is that we simply believe Him. Like Jesus says in Mark 5:36, “Only believe.”
Now righteousness rules grace, meaning grace follows righteousness. Grace, too, is unmerited—another free gift. It is experienced by trusting God and having faith in His Word. The more you accept your righteousness, the more you allow grace to manifest on your behalf.
It is time for Christians to be extremely aware of our righteousness, so that every finished work of Jesus Christ can show up in our lives. We realize that we are saved by faith, but we must also resolve in our hearts that we are the righteousness of God! The Bible and God say that we are, and neither of them can lie

 

[WIP]

Just for clarification; when a Christian Believer falls out of grace with God, does not mean they lose their salvation. You are just cut off from God.

Hmmm. Could you explain the difference between unsaved and cut off?

 

[vocalyocal]

Hmmm. Could you explain the difference between unsaved and cut off?

this should be interesting, maybe those who are cut off yet are saved are those we see in Rev. 22:15.........I never could figure out who those people were........although without the tree of life they would not live forever

 

[Mitspa]

I think it is helpful to remember the context in which they are "cut off, fallen from grace. - Gal 5:4 It is those who have turned from the righteousness of faith and back into a legalistic attempts to earn salvation by works of the law. Any attempt to earn salvation by works of any religious nature, is a rejection of Gods grace and righteousness in faith. The law is not of faith.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Somebody who quenches the Spirit is cutoff from God--cutoff from the manifest privileges of the Holy Spirit, not salvation altogether. But I don't think being cutoff ever referred to the temporary separation of a person from God and his people because of uncleanness.

I don't think it's clear, but cutoff carries with it the idea of being put to death altogether and removed from God's people, not temporarily put out of fellowship with the goodness of God because of sin. Jesus was cutoff, but I think it's arguable that spiritually he suffered the very death and separation a condemned sinner gets at death, not the temporary lapse of God's manifest goodness a sinning saint gets. It was important that he die the very death of the ungodly.

An examination of being 'cutoff' in the first covenant would be interesting. I remember looking into it many years ago, but really can't remember the conclusion I came to. I'm thinking maybe none. Nothing conclusive.

 

[Mitspa]

I would agree very much with jethros points. I think many use the term "cut off" and "fallen from grace" to give the idea that this comes about by breaking the law. But in its context, it is clear that it is those who are trying to keep the law, for whom the warning is made. Now this is about as clear as any biblical truth in scripture? So what does it say to the spiritual condition of those who would turn the whole meaning of these warnings around and use them to enforce legalism?
I think it proves the bible true? The strength of sin, is the law. Those who preach "thou shalt not bear false witness" always break that which they would lay upon others. It seems those who always think it is there place to warn and teach others, should warn and teach themselves. We are told to purge TWO leavens from the Church? The first is hypocricy, which is from legalism. Until hypocricy is purged,. the second leaven of the worldly lust cannot be addressed and purged in the true biblical standard of the gospel.

These all relates to the Lords warning to get the log out of ones own eye, in order to see to help others. A hypocrite has no place to correct anyone in the chruch.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I would agree very much with jethros points. I think many use the term "cut off" and "fallen from grace" to give the idea that this comes about by breaking the law. But in its context it is clear that it are those who are trying to keep the law, for whom the warning is made. Now this is about as clear as any biblical truth in scripture? So what does it say to the spiritual condition of those who would turn the whole meaning of these warnings around and use them to enforce legalism?
I think it proves the bible true? The strength of sin, is the law. Those who preach "thou shalt not bear false witness" always break that which they would lay upon others. It seems those who always think it is there place to warn and teach others, should warn and teach themselves. We are told to purge TWO leavens from the Chrurch? The first is hypocricy, which is from legalism. Until hypocricy is purged,. the second leaven of the worldly lust cannot be addressed and purged in the true biblical standard of the gospel.

These all relates to the Lords warning to get the log out of ones own eye, in order to see to help others. A hypocrite has no place to correct anyone in the chruch.

This is fine, but it's still a sin to bear false witness. The point is, sin cuts you off from the manifest blessings of God, like when a person made themselves unclean under the old covenant (touching dead things, unclean discharges from the body, creepy crawly things, etc.) they were placed away from God and his people for a while. But I think the term 'cutoff' was reserved for the actual death and destruction of the person from the covenant, not just a temporary stay away from the privileges and manifest goodness of the covenant.

This is only a law issue in that we can understand from the illustration of the law and it's requirements for separation what it means to be removed from God's goodness and fellowship, and fellowship with his people, when we make ourselves unclean and unfit for that fellowship through sin, but still be in the covenant. We quench the goodness of the Spirit when we make ourselves unclean through sin. It really has nothing to do with the legalism of law. Sin is still transgression of the law. Not sinning through the new way of the Spirit, as opposed to the old way of the written word, is another subject.

 

[Mitspa]

This is fine, but it's still a sin to bear false witness. The point is, sin cuts you off from the manifest blessings of God, like when a person made themselves unclean under the old covenant (touching dead things, unclean discharges from the body, creepy crawly things, etc.) they were placed away from God and his people for a while. But I think the term 'cutoff' was reserved for the actual death and destruction of the person from the covenant, not just a temporary stay away from the privileges and manifest goodness of the covenant.

This is only a law issue in that we can understand from the illustration of the law and it's requirements for separation what it means to be removed from God's goodness and fellowship, and fellowship with his people, when we make ourselves unclean and unfit for that fellowship through sin, but still be in the covenant. We quench the goodness of the Spirit when we make ourselves unclean through sin. It really has nothing to do with the legalism of law. Sin is still transgression of the law. Not sinning through the new way of the Spirit, as opposed to the old way of the written word, is another subject.

Well jethro, I just disagree in strong terms. The issue is legalism! It is not that you are walking in the spirit when you stop doing bad things, but it is that if you will walk in the spirit you will not do bad things. The issue is Gods grace and its power over the lust of the flesh. It is not stop doing and you will have Gods grace.
We have been in this debate before! You do not keep the righteous requirements of the law by legalism but by the spirit.
Legalism works against the Spirit, and gives strength to the sin within the believer. One must first cast off legalism and written codes and standards to walk in the spirit. One must die to the law to keep those goods things we see in the law.

You seemed to make a large circle of reasoning and come back to legalism?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You seemed to make a large circle of reasoning and come back to legalism?

Not a chance. Reread my post without a preconceived expectation that any and all mention of 'law' in a grace discussion means legalism. Sadly, that is what so many in the church are conditioned to do.

We know we are walking in the way of the new man by whether we are under law, or not. When we walk in the (fruit of the) Spirit we are not in violation of any law:

"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." (Galatians 5:22-23 NIV)

Don't automatically hear this as meaning we are new creations by keeping the law.

What it means is when we walk according to the old man we violate God's law. That's how we can tell we're walking according to him and the dictates of corrupted fleshly desires. When we bear the fruit of the Spirit, that is how we know we are walking according to the new man--according to the dictates of the Spirit and the authority of the new husband to whom we are to submit out of reverence and respect.

 

[Mitspa]

Not a chance. Reread my post without a preconceived expectation that any and all mention of 'law' in a grace discussion means legalism. Sadly, that is what so many in the church are conditioned to do.

We know we are walking in the way of the new man by whether we are under law, or not. When we walk in the (fruit of the) Spirit we are not in violation of any law:

"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." (Galatians 5:22-23 NIV)

Don't automatically hear this as meaning we are new creations by keeping the law.

What it means is when we walk according to the old man we violate God's law. That's how we can tell we're walking according to him and the dictates of corrupted fleshly desires. When we bear the fruit of the Spirit, that is how we know we are walking according to the new man--according to the dictates of the Spirit and the authority of the new husband to whom we are to submit out of reverence and respect.

Sorry jethro, at the end of your doctrine, you are looking to the law to justifiy. It is not a mixture of law and grace is is grace alone that justifies.