(Some) OSASers must believe that God created human robots!

[DRS81]

So for me the question is just how powerful was that shed blood? How complete a justification is the work of God in those who believe?

Hi Deb. But you're missing my point all together. I believe the word (impossible) is a metaphor and not literal. The metaphor is (the condition of our hearts). Your thoughts.

If you need to ask how powerful was his blood, then you are off course here. There should be (no doubt in your mind) that His blood is permanent.

 

[Deborah13]

Hi Deb. But you're missing my point all together. I believe the word (impossible) is a metaphor and not literal. The metaphor is (the condition of our hearts). Your thoughts.

If you need to ask how powerful was his blood, then you are off course here. There should be (no doubt in your mind) that His blood is permanent.

I didn't miss your point. You believe that 'impossible' is a metaphor, I don't.
When I examine scripture I try to take it step by step through that scriptural teaching, setting aside what I may have thought or learned before.
When I share those questions I am asking that others, if they so choose, to also answer those questions in a conversation. It usually doesn't do any good to just state what you believe and keep saying the same things over and over again.

 

[Stan1953]

But it says it's impossible to renew them again to repentance. That's not biblical for a born again christian. The Holy Spirit will convict believers and bring them back to repentance. 2 Peter 2:9
Just because a christian is mature doesn't mean their saved. For the born again christian, it is always possible to repent and be brought back. I believe the word 'impossible' isn't (literal), but rather it's (metaphorical.) As long as they are alive, it is always possible for a nonbeliever and a believer to repent. The only unforgivable sin is dying in your sins. I believe Hebrews 6:4-6 is speaking (metaphorically) about the conditions of our hearts. He's warning us that if we don't pass our tests, life will be that much harder. Nothing more, nothing less.
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Sorry but I'm not going to explain it to you again. If you didn't get it after three times, you'll never get it.
If you're not saved you're not a believer, it is a simple as that.

 

[Deborah13]

Sorry but I'm not going to explain it to you again. If you didn't get it after three times, you'll never get it.
If you're not saved you're not a believer, it is a simple as that.

I agree, if one is not saved they are not a believer.
Can someone be a believer, then become a nonbeliever, and then become a believer again?

 

[Stan1953]

Stan, I agree that the believers in Hebrews 6:4-6 are definitely believers and very mature believers and that if they were to fall away they would be lost forever, for it is 'Impossible' for them to be renewed because that would mean Christ would have to be crucified again for them.
Correct?

Yes.

So one cannot be justified, unjustified, and be justified again. Correct?

If you are alluding to Rom 8:28-30, yes that process cannot happen again. Once we are apostate we stay that way for the very reason Luke gives here in Heb 6:6.

Thinking on that......When we are justified in Christ, how complete is this work of God? Is it just a partial work? Is that justifying blood of the Lamb only a partial work of justification, such as the blood of bulls and goats?

Christ's sacrifice on the cross was complete. Rom 6:10, Heb 7:27, Heb 9:12, 26, Heb 10:10.
It was ONCE, for all sin. In order to receive the gift of redemption, we must accept Jesus as our savior. The effectualness of that is not negated when we walk away, if we walk away.

 

[Stan1953]

News Flash! ... Charles is a Baptist, so methinks re: dis delicate topic,
he has to side with the Baptists (most of whom are adamant OSASers).

Not all Baptists are RT. It is about 50/50 among all the Baptist denoms.

 

[Stan1953]

I agree, if one is not saved they are not a believer.
Can someone be a believer, then become a nonbeliever, and then become a believer again?

Again, not according to Heb 6:4-6. Now an immature Christian who never grows, is a different story.

 

[Deborah13]

Not all Baptists are RT. It is about 50/50 among all the Baptist denoms.

I agree that not all Baptists are Calvinist but I have never heard of or met a Baptist who believed someone could become unsaved or unjustified in Christ.

 

[Stan1953]

Ok this is interesting and it seems your saying a believer can't lose their salvation but can leave the Church. I haven't seen you say this in this string can you show me where ? I'd hate to be a deliberate equivocator :biggrin. I can't really reply to anything else you say here until I'm sure of what you're presenting but I have read of an explanation for the falling away in Hebrews 6 that suggests the subjects are true believers and the falling away implies a leaving the
Church but not losing salvation which is interesting and plausible.

Sorry agua but I SAID what I SAID. I do not have a lot of patience with this kind of equivocal response.

 

[Deborah13]

Again, not according to Heb 6:4-6. Now an immature Christian who never grows, is a different story.

Hmm....what about the immature believer who is in the process of growing. Can they become unsaved and then saved again?

 

[agua.]

Sorry agua but I SAID what I SAID. I do not have a lot of patience with this kind of equivocal response.

Ah I see. I've looked but can't find anywhere in this string that you made clear that you believe a believer can't lose salvation. Consider me equivocated :D

So you believe in OSAS ?

 

[Stan1953]

I agree that not all Baptists are Calvinist but I have never heard of or met a Baptist who believed someone could become unsaved or unjustified in Christ.

Well I was married to one for 23 years, and my ex-father-in-law who still pastors a Baptist church here part time does as well. Maybe Canadians are different? I just quoted the stats I could find. If you want to see how it currently effect the Southern Baptist Convention, do a Google search. It is becoming a divisive issue even with them.

 

[Stan1953]

Hmm....what about the immature believer who is in the process of growing. Can they become unsaved and then saved again?

Once someone becomes apostate, scripture shows they don't recover.

 

[jeff77]

Not all Baptists are RT. It is about 50/50 among all the Baptist denoms.

I was going to say the same thing Stan. My family is Baptist and my father and my own views are NON-OSAS. Only recently we changed our view. We mainly see it as a problem with people who have only heard the Gospel a few times. OSAS can give them the impression that one does not need to have a relationship with Christ. Not always the case but there are people who even admit they do not live a Christian life at all, but their still saved cause of OSAS.

 

[Stan1953]

Ah I see. I've looked but can't find anywhere in this string that you made clear that you believe a believer can't lose salvation. Consider me equivocated
So you believe in OSAS ?

I suggest you read more carefully. HERE is where I first said it.
Apparently you just want to annoy me now?

 

[agua.]

I suggest you read more carefully. HERE is where I first said it.
Apparently you just want to annoy me now?

Nah I'm just trying to understand what you believe. So you suggest a person can't lose their salvation but they can walk away right ? Are Ananais and Sapphira saved ?

 

[Stan1953]

I was going to say the same thing Stan. My family is Baptist and my father and my own views are NON-OSAS. Only recently we changed our view. We mainly see it as a problem with people who have only heard the Gospel a few times. OSAS can give them the impression that one does not need to have a relationship with Christ. Not always the case but there are people who even admit they do not live a Christian life at all, but their still saved cause of OSAS.

That is one negative of the dogma for sure, but it does not come alone, and overall, OSAS is NOT supported in scripture. THAT is my utmost concern.

 

[Stan1953]

Nah I'm just trying to understand what you believe. So you suggest a person can't lose their salvation but they can walk away right ? Are Ananais and Sapphira saved ?

Asked and answered agua. This is starting to feel like harassment so please stop.

 

[Deborah13]

Once someone becomes apostate, scripture shows they don't recover.

We agree again.
What is your interpretation of the next two verses? How do you see they relate to verses 4-6?

YLT
Heb 6:7 For earth, that is drinking in the rain many times coming upon it, and is bringing forth herbs fit for those because of whom also it is dressed, doth partake of blessing from God,
Heb 6:8 and that which is bearing thorns and briers is disapproved of, and nigh to cursing, whose end is for burning;

 

[agua.]

Asked and answered agua. This is starting to feel like harassment so please stop.

Oky doky no worries.