Some People Just Can’t “See†the Gospel

[AVBunyan]

This continuing discussion over OSAS, Faith plus Works, and Justification boils down to this. The reason for such confusion is that some people just can’t “see†the simple gospel which is declared in I Cor. 15:1-4. Allow me to demonstrate – here is the passage where the gospel is contained:

1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Cor 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Cor 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Now read the above closely – you can read it but can you see it? Do you believe it?

If you believe you can lose your salvation then you do not believe the above passage. You may be able to read it, discuss it, and argue over it but you can’t see it.

The only way you can believe the above passage is for you to be regenerated. Dead men cannot “see†nor believe the above for it is hid from then – II Cor. 4:3.

So, when many of you still believe you can fall away or sin it away or just plain lose it then it is because you do not believe Christ died for your sins. When Christ died for your sins 2000 years ago he also died for your “falling away†at times, your “sinning it away†and all other future sins. The crux of the matter is this, do you believe Christ died for your sins and what he did at Calvary was sufficient? Either you believe or you don’t.

I maintain that many here do not believe the gospel of I Cor. 15:1-4 – it is obvious from your own postings.

Again, if you believe you can fall away or sin it away or just plain lose it then it is because you do not believe Christ died for your sins.

You see how simple the gosel is? Still don’t “see†it do you. Plead with God to open your eyes.

 

[thessalonian]

So if I don't believe in OSAS I am going to hell?

By the way I don't believe in faith plus works in the context that you present it. I believe in grace alone. I do not believe that faith alone can save because that is an act on our part, at least in the context that you frame things. I believe we are brought to faith by grace. God works on us before he can work in us. It is the work in us that saves however. Grace working in our lives.

By the way your post has implications on my holy spirit thread so I would be interested in your comments there if you could. Thanks.

 

[AVBunyan]

Lost?

So if I don't believe in OSAS I am going to hell?

My statement is a general statment. Actually I believe it is possible that a person could truly get saved and regenerated and then soon afterwards get fouled up in false doctrine - happens all the time these days. I know this can happen but...but I also believe that if taught what happened at Calvary from the scriptures then he will "most likely" see it.

But - I also believe (my opinion) that if one firmly rests in the idea that one can lose it and then vehemently defends this then I believe he is most likely lost for he does not believe Christ died for all his sins.

This sounds harsh but justification is a most serious matter.

Now - are you lost? Do you really believe that Christ died for al your sins and that what He did at Calvary was sufficient for your sins?

God bless

 

[Imagican]

So if I don't believe in OSAS I am going to hell?

By the way I don't believe in faith plus works in the context that you present it. I believe in grace alone. I do not believe that faith alone can save because that is an act on our part, at least in the context that you frame things. I believe we are brought to faith by grace. God works on us before he can work in us. It is the work in us that saves however. Grace working in our lives.

By the way your post has implications on my holy spirit thread so I would be interested in your comments there if you could. Thanks.

Thess,

You have told me that since I don't accept or believe in 'trinity' that I'm going to hell. Soooo..................., what's the difference?

Perhaps AV has something here. I find OSAS to be sketchy myself, BUT, perhaps the key is, IF saved ALWAYS saved. The difference being the 'belief' in being saved, REGARDLESS of sin, but simply BY belief.

It certainly defies the traditional teachings of the Catholic Church and much of the Protestant faith, but maybe the reason for this is that 'it's THE truth', and most religions teach 'THEIR truth', instead of THE truth.

 

[cj]

So if I don't believe in OSAS I am going to hell?

Your response just proved AV's point Thess.

What a saved believer concludes out of scripture does not matter when it comes to eternal salavation. But you're blinded to seeing this and thus asked a silly question.

By the way I don't believe in faith plus works in the context that you present it. I believe in grace alone. I do not believe that faith alone can save because that is an act on our part, at least in the context that you frame things. I believe we are brought to faith by grace. God works on us before he can work in us. It is the work in us that saves however. Grace working in our lives.

God gives each born-again believer a new spirit instantly, upon our believing and confessing. This new spirit has God in it, one with the spirit, and God cannot lose His position to Satan.

Fact is, Satan cannot touch a believer new spirit.

This new spirit is the hiding place of the believer, a place free from Satan's onslaught.

Before we are saved God works on us through outward dealings and eventually gets us to turn to Him (not in a believing way but simply out of desperation), to place our eyes upon Him. At the moment we do this He infuses us with a new spirit and Himself and then rises up in us empowering us to believe and confess His Name. It is His faith with which we believe and confess, His power.

At the point of salvation God places Himself in His creation and then uses His creation to declare truth, and in this saves His creation according to the law of life He has set forth.

And what is this law of life? It is a law that states that if a man believes and confesses the truth concerning Christ this man will not die but receive eternal life.

Grace is that God does everything necessary to save that which had no hope.

No hope means no hope. It means that there is nothing in man worth saving, nothing in man that could save him.

And if there is nothing in man that can save a man, what could man give God as a help toward his salvation? Nothing.

Man does nothing to save himself for man has nothing with which to save himself. God does it all.


Now,.... once God has secured man in His salvation, there comes a requirement, and it is this requirement that many confuse with eternal salvation.

And what is this requirement?

Man is tripartite,... there are three aspects of man, body, soul, and spirit.

Upon salvation men receive a new spirit that is instantly one with God. But what of the other two aspects of man's tripartite nature, what of the soul and the body?

Well, scripture is clear concerning the body, that it will be saved in an instant upon the Lord's return.

But not so with a man's soul, a man's soul must suffer through a process of salvation. What Paul calls the working out of one's slavation.

Salvation for men is simply the receiving of resurrection life.

And what is resurrection life?

Resurrection life is a law, the law of life.

This is not a law like that found in human courts, it is a law like that found in physics, a law by which things take place.

An apple seed has a law of the apple in it. Thia apple seed can only become an apple tree. Why,... because the law that works in it will only allow it to become an apple tree.

The same is true with the law of life, inthat, once it is in place it can only produce life. Thus once this law is in place in a man this law will produce only life in this man, resurrection life. And scripture declares that resurrection life is indestructable. In other word, this law, resurrection life, will accomplish what it sets out to accomplish, and nothing can stop it.

And,.... this law has a Name, this resurrection life has a name,... Jesus.

He told us this Himself.

So what then?

When God infuses us with a new spirit and with Himself it is the same as saying He infuses us with this law of life, this resurrection life. But this life is only in our new spirit, not in our soul nor in our body. Therefore these two aspects of our tripatrtite being remain in death. But it is here that our co-work with God begins, for we must now work with God to open our soul to the resurrection life in our spirit that this life might flow out of our spirit into our soul, cleansing and renewing our soul (mind, emotion, and will), and saving it from the death of the fallen self.

And this takes time and requires some suffering.

But what if a man, after being saved and receiving a new spirit in which God is one with the man, never opens his soul-life to the resurrection life that is in his spirit? What will happen to that man?

Scripture is clear, salvation of the soul requires a long process and suffering, it is the only way. And if a man is not willing to go through this process and suffering during the time he has on the earth, then according to scripture he will go through it during the thousand year reign of Christ, in the place of the second death. He will be saved, yet as through fire.

This is what overcoming is,.... overcoming your fallen man while you live out your life on the earth.

A believer's spirit is saved by grace, but a believer's soul requires man's effort/participation/co-working, or in other words, a believer, having been saved by grace and received resurrection life, must now live out of his new, resurrection life filled spirit, and by doing so overcome his old soulish ways.

And this is the work.... of..... salvation.... that many believers confuse with the work of God's grace in man receiving eternal salvation.


In love,
cj

 

[Heidi]

So if I don't believe in OSAS I am going to hell?

By the way I don't believe in faith plus works in the context that you present it. I believe in grace alone. I do not believe that faith alone can save because that is an act on our part, at least in the context that you frame things. I believe we are brought to faith by grace. God works on us before he can work in us. It is the work in us that saves however. Grace working in our lives.

By the way your post has implications on my holy spirit thread so I would be interested in your comments there if you could. Thanks.

You will go to hell if you do not believe that Jesus saved you from your sins. You really need to read the bible, Thessalonian, because that's in there all over the place.

John 3:18, "Whoever believes in me is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." All you need to do is believe every word Jesus said and that he died for your sins. You cannot save yourself because none of us can ever be perfect enough to enter heaven, nor can "flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven." Only those born again of water and the Spirit can enter heaven because they know Christ personally through the Holy Spirit. And again, once you meet someone, you can then never deny he exists. It is a knowledge beyond all human understanding that never goes away throughout all of eternity. 1 Peter 1:3, "In His great mercy, he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritcance that can never perish, spoil, or fade-kept in heaven for you."

 

[thessalonian]

You will go to hell if you do not believe that Jesus saved you from your sins. You really need to read the bible, Thessalonian, because that's in there all over the place.

This is prejudice speaking in you dear. I read the Bible every day. I know that Jesus saved me from my sins, is saving me from my sins, and will save me from my sins. AMEN! That is Catholic theology at it's finest. Where on earth have I said otherwise. Stop putting words and beliefs in my mouth based on your prejudices. Stop telling me what I believe and making assumptions that I don't read the Bible. :o

 

[thessalonian]

You have told me that since I don't accept or believe in 'trinity' that I'm going to hell. Soooo..................., what's the difference?

I have? Could you quote me on that? The difference however is that I don't really care if AV thinks I am going to hell or not. I am just interested in how far he will take his belief in OSAS. His header implies that if you don't believe in OSAS you don't have the Gospel. So the implication it seems to me is if you don't believe in OSAS and that is the true Gospel your going to hell, by his belief system which I am trying to figure out. I will let him correct me on what he believes. However I do see a problem with his response to my question, which I will address shortly.

 

[thessalonian]

Re: Lost?

So if I don't believe in OSAS I am going to hell?

My statement is a general statment. Actually I believe it is possible that a person could truly get saved and regenerated and then soon afterwards get fouled up in false doctrine - happens all the time these days. I know this can happen but...but I also believe that if taught what happened at Calvary from the scriptures then he will "most likely" see it.

So are you suggesting that someone must have believed OSAS at least for an instant? If that's the case I never have.

But - I also believe (my opinion) that if one firmly rests in the idea that one can lose it and then vehemently defends this then I believe he is most likely lost for he does not believe Christ died for all his sins.

I don't believe on can loose his salvation. I do believe he can fall from grace because Galations 5 tells me he can. I will vehemently defend that. Now is it possible for one to believe in OSAS, vehemently defend it, and then later vehemently defend loss of salvation. If that is the case it would seem me that according to what you have posted he lost his salvation.

This sounds harsh but justification is a most serious matter.

Now - are you lost? Do you really believe that Christ died for al your sins and that what He did at Calvary was sufficient for your sins?

God bless

Yes I do believe that my sins are forgiven because of what he did on Calvary. But I also believe I could fall from grace. I don't believe that grace happened in my life 2000 years ago however. I believe grace was earned 2000 years ago by that death on the cross. But I believe it was applied to my life when I "got saved", has to be applied to my life today and if I continue to trust in Christ, it will be applied to my life tommorrow. This is the promise of God and as long as by his grace I keep my eyes fixed on this promise I will persevere in grace and be saved, even as I am being saved, and as I was saved.

Blessings

 

[thessalonian]

Your response just proved AV's point Thess.

What a saved believer concludes out of scripture does not matter when it comes to eternal salavation. But you're blinded to seeing this and thus asked a silly question.

:o

Hmmm. I have to say your posts are truly dizzying cj. So what we believe has not effect on our salvation? The Bible contains everything neccessary for our salvation but none of it is neccessary for our salvation? Silly questions? Truth is not what saves even though the scriptures say "YOU SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE".


2Thes.2
[10] and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
[13] But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. :roll:

What a saved believer concludes out of scripture does not matter when it comes to eternal salavation
saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

cj: What a saved believer concludes out of scripture does not matter when it comes to eternal salavation
Bible:saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and BELIEF in the truth.


cj: What a saved believer concludes out of scripture does not matter when it comes to eternal salavation
Bible:saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and BELIEF in the truth.

cj: What a saved believer concludes out of scripture does not matter when it comes to eternal salavation
Bible:saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and BELIEF in the truth.

cj: What a saved believer concludes out of scripture does not matter when it comes to eternal salavation
Bible:saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and BELIEF in the truth.

cj: What a saved believer concludes out of scripture does not matter when it comes to eternal salavation
Bible:saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and BELIEF in the truth.

cj: What a saved believer concludes out of scripture does not matter when it comes to eternal salavation
Bible:saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and BELIEF in the truth.
:o

 

[AVBunyan]

Re: Lost?

Yes I do believe that my sins are forgiven because of what he did on Calvary. But I also believe I could fall from grace. Blessings

Trying to help you here my friend - falling from grace is losing salvation in my book.

If one is in the body of Christ he can not lose that position.
If one has been sealed by the Holy Spirit he cannot become unsealed.
Of one has become a new creature then he cannot go back to the old.
If one has been raised to sit in Christ in heavenly places then he cannot get kicked out.
If one has been made righteous then God cannot and will not make you unrighteous.

There are many more like the above.

Thess - look at Epehians and see what God did for you if you are truly regenerated.

May God richly bless

 

[JM]

AV, we are saved by the work of Christ (By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all), this means the RC Mass can be done away with, this is where understanding your presuppositions comes in handy. :wink:

 

[Imagican]

I will leave it up to those here to judge your indication here:

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:26 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Imagican denies that Jesus is God for those of you keeping track on your scoresheets. The truth is not in him. He is not a Christian. Sorry. he says "look here, here is Christ" yet does not know him who he speaks.

Mark 13
1: And then if any one says to you, `Look, here is the Christ!' or `Look, there he is!' do not believe it.
_________________
"Peter you are my rock, and on this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail. Matt 16:18

Prov 18
[17] He who states his case first seems right,
until the other comes and examines him.

My understanding is that your understanding is that in 'trinity' Jesus Christ IS God. If my understanding is correct, then you have accused me of NOT being a Christian simply because I do not agree with your 'trinity'. Otherwise, all the others that aren't Catholics, yet DO accept Christ BEING God, should be 'saved' in your understanding. Either this, or you have simply picked me out of the crowd and accused me of 'not being a Christian' for personal reasons.

 

[farley]

AV,

You posted...

This continuing discussion over OSAS, Faith plus Works, and Justification boils down to this. The reason for such confusion is that some people just can’t “see†the simple gospel which is declared in I Cor. 15:1-4.
Allow me to demonstrate – here is the passage where the gospel is contained:

1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Cor 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Cor 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Now read the above closely – you can read it but can you see it? Do you believe it?

If you believe you can lose your salvation then you do not believe the above passage. You may be able to read it, discuss it, and argue over it but you can’t see it.
AV...In verse 2 above, "...if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you,...", means that IF you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and are obedient to His words/commandments, then you will NOT have believed in vain. If you have not been living as a Christian, and do not keep living as a Christian, then you HAVE believed in vain!
The only way you can believe the above passage is for you to be regenerated. Dead men cannot “see†nor believe the above for it is hid from then – II Cor. 4:3.

So, when many of you still believe you can fall away or sin it away or just plain lose it then it is because you do not believe Christ died for your sins. When Christ died for your sins 2000 years ago he also died for your “falling away†at times, your “sinning it away†and all other future sins. The crux of the matter is this, do you believe Christ died for your sins and what he did at Calvary was sufficient? Either you believe or you don’t.
One places themself at extreem risk by taking the positions which you are here! I wish I could understand how you, and others, can ignore so many passages which conflict with the views which you are holding so fast to! Please help me to see your view on the following passage, if you will...

Hebrews 10 KJV
(38) Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
(39) But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
I maintain that many here do not believe the gospel of I Cor. 15:1-4 – it is obvious from your own postings.
Ohhh...I definitely believe it allright, I just don't believe that it is saying what YOU believe that it is saying!!!
Again, if you believe you can fall away or sin it away or just plain lose it then it is because you do not believe Christ died for your sins.
Wrong! A believer can still err, becoming a DISOBEDIENT believer. Any unrepented sins at one's death will be paid for on Judgement Day! Also, I would be interested in your interpretation on the following passage as well...

James 5:19-20 KJV
(19) Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
(20) Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
You see how simple the gospel is? Still don’t “seeââ‚ it do you. Plead with God to open your eyes.Right back at ya', AV.

In Christ,

farley

 

[Heidi]

So farley, I take it you don't believe that Christ died for your sins. Is that correct? If so, then I can see why you're in doubt about your salvation! Jesus and Paul both say that those who call on the name of the Lord and believe in their heart that Jesus died for their sins will be saved. But apparently you don't believe them either. No wonder you have so much fear! Fear is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit. It's from the devil. Once you receive the Holy Spirit you will know what salvation is.

 

[AVBunyan]

1. AV...In verse 2 above, "...if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you,...", means that IF you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God,

2. and are obedient to His words/commandments, then you will NOT have believed in vain.

3. If you have not been living as a Christian, and do not keep living as a Christian, then you HAVE believed in vain!

4. Please help me to see your view on the following passage, if you will...Hebrews 10 KJV - James 5:19-20 KJV

5. A believer can still err, becoming a DISOBEDIENT believer.

6. Any unrepented sins at one's death will be paid for on Judgment Day!

Hi Farley – I trust you had a nice holiday.

1. We’ve covered this “believing†before – one is not regenerated by their believing or their faith – Believing is a result of regeneration – Dead men cannot believe. The justifying faith comes from Christ (Gal. 2:16). Paul is telling them to keep in memory the correct gospel (Gal. 1:8, 9) and to preach the correct gospel because God uses the preaching of the gospel to awaken the sinner. “My†believing didn’t justify me and my “quite believing†cannot unjustify me. Farley – you really need to quite looking at how people live and look at what Christ did at Calvary. What were the results of Calvary? How did God deal with sin and sins at Calvary? Once you get Calvary settled then start looking at how people live. You are still trying to make the “practical†outworking of salvation to be the “basis†for one’s “position†in Christ.

2. Nowhere in the passage does Paul deal with obedience to God’s commandments as a prerequisite for salvation.

3. I can agree here – a man’s foul living may be an indication he was never regenerated but his foul living does not determine his salvation. People have believed in vain before – they were never regenerated – they never believed the gospel of I Cor. 15:1-4.

4. You are on shaky ground in Hebrews and James. Historically – these folks are early Acts before the body of Christ was even revealed and now “doctrinally†they fit perfectly in tribulation truth after the body of Christ is gone – the 7 year tribulation is all through there. Why throw your anchor out in suspect books that are not doctrinally for this age of grace? Why not park in Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians or Romans 3-5 and show me there? Are you a Jew (James – Hebrews)?

5. Yes they can – but define disobedience. Are you telling me you are not disobedient at times? Now I see – salvation is dependent upon one’s obedience or disobedience and not what Christ did at Calvary? This is called WORKS – self salvation.

6. Here we go – what you are saying is that Christ’s sins were not sufficient for your “disobediences†or “unrepented sins� It appears you believe that Christ died for your sins but his work does not become effective until you add “your repentance†to it? So farley – your magic repentance makes the blood of Christ efficacious?

You see farley – you are a great example of my point. You do not believe that Christ died for those future “disobediences†(sins) so therefore you do not believe that Christ died for all your sins. Christ’s death and blood was not sufficient for your sins for you still think you will see sins at the judgment and you will at the great white throne but that is a judgment for unbelievers not saints. You are in a mess farley. What you believe is that your repentance is what gets you home. This is called WORKS.

Farley – you need to get back to the basics. You need to ask God to show you yourself. Then you need to ask God to reveal Christ to you and what he did at Calvary. You’ve got the cart before the horse here. You spend all your time judging people’s works and making them the basis for salvation.

Flee to Christ.

God bless

 

[Heidi]

Right on, Av. People who concentrate on their good works, are giving credit to themselves for their salvation instead of to God. They are also not doing good works with the left hand without the right hand knowing it. Good works come from the Holy Spirit which is why they are called the "fruits of the Spirit."

 

[farley]

Heidi,

You posted...

So farley, I take it you don't believe that Christ died for your sins. Wrong again, Heidi! Is that correct? How did you leap to such a wild conclusion? If so, then I can see why you're in doubt about your salvation! Why do you think that I question my salvation? Jesus and Paul both say that those who call on the name of the Lord and believe in their heart that Jesus died for their sins will be saved. Ahhh…I see that it all boils down to the fact that you don’t approve of my interpretation of “believe†for some reason!!! But apparently you don't believe them either. On the contrary!!! Of the two of us, it appears to me that I’m the only one that truly believes what the scriptures say about “believingâ€Â. No wonder you have so much fear! Fear is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit. It's from the devil. I beg to differ, to me, "believe", means more than just having a passing mental thought, one time. Fear is not from the devil, nor is trembling. Christ commands us to have fear, and to keep His commandments, as I've stated elsewhere, obey is a part of "believe", in my view!

Matthew 10 KJV
(28) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Philippians 2 KJV
(12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Heidi, it pains me to say this, but I don't sense that you have worked out your salvation with fear and trembling. I detect pride, arrogance and cockiness in your postings. And, it seems like you have disdain for those who do fear the Lord.

2 Peter 1 KJV
(10) Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

John 14 KJV
(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Once you receive the Holy Spirit you will know what salvation is.

What about the following verse, Heidi, since you “believe†that your state of salvation is bullet proof, and that you are eternally sealed, you don’t see it as applying to you, do you? Who would you say this passage is directed towards?

1 Thessalonians 5 KJV
(17) Pray without ceasing.


_________________
Yours in Christ,
Heidi

In Christ,

farley

 

[Heidi]

So do you or do you not doubt your salvation, farley? Do you or do you not eblieve that Jesus saves you, not you, yourself? Do you or do you not believe that good works come from the Holy Spirit in you instead of your superior self? If so, then why would you worry that you will not do good works? Do you believe the devil is stronger than the Holy Spirit? :o

 

[SputnikBoy]

So do you or do you not doubt your salvation, farley? Do you or do you not eblieve that Jesus saves you, not you, yourself? Do you or do you not believe that good works come from the Holy Spirit in you instead of your superior self? If so, then why would you worry that you will not do good works? Do you believe the devil is stronger than the Holy Spirit? :o

I don't believe as you do, Heidi. I don't believe when we accept the Holy Spirit that we become robots unable to decide for ourselves from then on. You will probably say that I don't have the Holy Spirit within me for merely having made that statement. That's alright. I can live with that. We fight for our freedoms in our physical world. I believe that our spiritual world also allows such freedoms. The Holy Spirit does not make choices for us. We ourselves do that. And that's the way it was intended and should be. With the Holy Spirit as my mentor, I choose to do good works or I choose not to. But the choice is mine, not the Holy Spirit's.