Sorry, but Christians, Jews and Muslims do NOT worship the same God....

[Lewis]

No the god of the Quran is not the same God of the Bible. Sura 2: 136 in the Quran says that they believe our Bibles writers, and then the Quran turns around and contradicts itself in the preceding and following pages. First of all when Mohammed came into being the Bible was already complete about some 500 to 900 years. the Quran has Jesus making clay birds come alive and flying away. It also has God holding a mountain over the Hebrews heads and threatening to drop it on them for their disobedience. Also in the Quran Mohammed wanted his step sons wife. So he conveniently made up some garbage that Allah said that he Mohammed had the right to take his wife. The Quran also says if your wife is disobedient, you can banish her to the couch and beat her. In the modern Quran they have added the word (lightly) beat her. I have not studied this stuff in years. but the God of the Quran who is a part of the 360 gods of the Kabah, is not the same God of the Bible. If the Islamic god was the same as our God of the Bible. The Quran would line up with our Bible and not contradict it, so now does that sound like we worship the same God. And if you want to know more about this false faith just ask me.

 

[Guest]

Whoever the Jews worship, is not real and is not the Living God. What more should we know.

 

[Lewis]

Whoever the Jews worship, is not real and is not the Living God. What more should we know.

I was talking about the Muslims in my post not the Hebrews. And there is a lot more to know, knowledge is key.

 

[Mitspa]

So "legitimate" prayer to God is based on bloodlines?

That's not what I am saying.

Well we know that a Jew that has rejected Christ has in fact really rejected the Father also. There is no "Jewish" religion that has access to the One True God. So to say "Jews worship Yawheh" is a false statement, because they have denied Him, when they denied His Son.

So then who are Jews worshiping? I always wonder why God wouldn't save his "originals"

Well I guess they are worshipping their own flesh or some other god? Because no one has the Father or can know the Father if they reject the Son.

<dir>
1Jn 5:9
If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

1Jn 5:10
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1Jn 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1Jn 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
</dir>

 

[Guest]

Whoever the Jews worship, is not real and is not the Living God. What more should we know.

I was talking about the Muslims in my post not the Hebrews. And there is a lot more to know, knowledge is key.

Sorry, my post wasn't directed at you. I wasn't following your posts. Anyhoo, Jesus is the only one and true God. Muslims are so far from Jesus, it's really sad.

 

[jasoncran]

So "legitimate" prayer to God is based on bloodlines?

That's not what I am saying.

Well we know that a Jew that has rejected Christ has in fact really rejected the Father also. There is no "Jewish" religion that has access to the One True God. So to say "Jews worship Yawheh" is a false statement, because they have denied Him, when they denied His Son.

So then who are Jews worshiping? I always wonder why God wouldn't save his "originals"

well I would say that god saved the 12 apostles and timothy and other Hebrews. Lewis, and my self are hebrew

 

[evenifigoalone]

I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but there is actually a denomination of Jews who accept Christ but focus more on the old testiment. Just thought I would point that out as they are an interesting bunch.

I actually used to attend a Bible study group taught by a Messianic Jewish family. While there were some differences in opinion (they believed that all of the laws in the OT should be followed, including the food laws and etc), I learned a lot from them. The Bible study classes ended when they moved to another state.

 

[jasoncran]

ok.i will derail this thread another argument on the torah and what was rendered obsolete.

 

[handy]

Dora.....Is it REQUIRED to understand God perfectly...BEFORE....we can pray to Him? No....then.....how much understanding is REQUIRED....and just what is the minimal standard for praying to God? Can a 3 year old mutter an authentic prayer to God?.....How 'bout a 2 year old?

Now, is that lil child's prayer to a false God......because they haven't a clue about Jesus as Lord of Creation....but rather picture Santa Claus in their mind?

God says...."I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"......It is not fitting for Christian adults to mock the prayers of a little Hindu child or 19 year old Muslim girl or even the deranged shouts of a terrorist. We should be mature in our words and not sophmoric.

I'm sorry, Pugsly, I somehow missed this post that was directed to me. I'm not too sure where you're coming at with this, to be honest. I fully agree, we as Christians should never mock anyone's faith... certainly not that of a child's. I also agree that God will have mercy on whomever He has mercy on. Neither prayer nor God's mercy was at the heart of my OP.

The point of my OP is the confusion that Christians bring about when they claim that Jews and Muslims worship the same God as we do. Neither Jews (the non-Messianic Jews at least) nor Muslims accept and worship Jesus as God, therefore they cannot be worshipping the same God as we do. Jesus said very clearly that no man goes to the Father except through Him.

I believe that part of the folks who God will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy are those who have never heard of Jesus Christ. But, for the Jews and Muslims who acknowledge Jesus, but reject Him as the Son of God? God is certainly able to have mercy upon them... but it is clearly taught in Scriptures that those who reject the Son will not see the Father. If they do this will be in spite of the fact that they have rejected Him... not because "they worship the same God as Christians".

 

[waterloome]

not the same God you are very correct Handy

There is only one God

 

[waterloome]

"but it is clearly taught in Scriptures that those who reject the Son will not see the Father."

Amen

 

[eddif]

Isaiah 19:25
20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt:
For they shall cry unto the Lord because of the oppressors,
And he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.
21 And the Lord shall be known to Egypt,
And the Egyptians shall know the Lord in that day,
And shall do sacrifice and oblation;
Yea, they shall vow a vow unto the Lord, and perform it.
22 And the Lord shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it:
And they shall return even to the Lord, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.
23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria,
And the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria,
And the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria,
25 Whom the Lord of hosts shall bless, saying,
Blessed be Egypt my people,
And Assyria the work of my hands,
And Israel mine inheritance.

Perhaps if we go, teach, preach (using spiritual gifts) this day will come sooner.

The Lord chastens whom he loves, and all these have at one time or another been under His rod.

Interesting passage. Want to go to a prophesied people that will accept Jesus?

eddif

 

[divinecloud7]

Only through the truth and understanding of it do we find the answers, and the truth is as of itself for.............

Matthew 7:20-26

New International Version (NIV)

<sup class="versenum">20 </sup>Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
True and False Disciples

<sup class="versenum">21 </sup>“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’<sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> will enter the kingdom of heaven,<sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup> but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.<sup class="crossreference" value='(C)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">22 </sup>Many will say to me on that day,<sup class="crossreference" value='(D)'></sup> ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’<sup class="crossreference" value='(E)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">23 </sup>Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’<sup class="crossreference" value='(F)'></sup>
The Wise and Foolish Builders<sup class="crossreference" value='(G)'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">24 </sup>“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice<sup class="crossreference" value='(H)'></sup> is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. <sup class="versenum">25 </sup>The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. <sup class="versenum">26 </sup>But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

And.....

John 12:37-50

New International Version (NIV)

Belief and Unbelief Among the Jews

<sup class="versenum">37 </sup>Even after Jesus had performed so many signs<sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> in their presence, they still would not believe in him. <sup class="versenum">38 </sup>This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:
“Lord, who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?â€<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup><sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">39 </sup>For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:
<sup class="versenum">40 </sup>“He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so they can neither see with their eyes,
nor understand with their hearts,
nor turn—and I would heal them.â€<sup class="footnote" value='[b]'>[b]</sup><sup class="crossreference" value='(C)'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">41 </sup>Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory<sup class="crossreference" value='(D)'></sup> and spoke about him.<sup class="crossreference" value='(E)'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">42 </sup>Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him.<sup class="crossreference" value='(F)'></sup> But because of the Pharisees<sup class="crossreference" value='(G)'></sup> they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue;<sup class="crossreference" value='(H)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">43 </sup>for they loved human praise<sup class="crossreference" value='(I)'></sup> more than praise from God.<sup class="crossreference" value='(J)'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">44 </sup>Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.<sup class="crossreference" value='(K)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">45 </sup>The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.<sup class="crossreference" value='(L)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">46 </sup>I have come into the world as a light,<sup class="crossreference" value='(M)'></sup> so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.
<sup class="versenum">47 </sup>“If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.<sup class="crossreference" value='(N)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">48 </sup>There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them<sup class="crossreference" value='(O)'></sup> at the last day. <sup class="versenum">49 </sup>For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me<sup class="crossreference" value='(P)'></sup> to say all that I have spoken. <sup class="versenum">50 </sup>I know that his command leads to eternal life.<sup class="crossreference" value='(Q)'></sup> So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.â€

and again.....

<sup class="crossreference" value='(R)'>John 14:1-8

New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Comforts His Disciples

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled.<sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> You believe<sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup> in God<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup>;<sup class="crossreference" value='(C)'></sup> believe also in me. <sup class="versenum">2 </sup>My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there<sup class="crossreference" value='(D)'></sup> to prepare a place for you? <sup class="versenum">3 </sup>And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back<sup class="crossreference" value='(E)'></sup> and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.<sup class="crossreference" value='(F)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">4 </sup>You know the way to the place where I am going.â€
Jesus the Way to the Father

<sup class="versenum">5 </sup>Thomas<sup class="crossreference" value='(G)'></sup> said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?â€
<sup class="versenum">6 </sup>Jesus answered, “I am<sup class="crossreference" value='(H)'></sup> the way<sup class="crossreference" value='(I)'></sup> and the truth<sup class="crossreference" value='(J)'></sup> and the life.<sup class="crossreference" value='(K)'></sup> No one comes to the Father except through me.<sup class="crossreference" value='(L)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">7 </sup>If you really know me, you will know<sup class="footnote" value='[b]'>[b]</sup> my Father as well.<sup class="crossreference" value='(M)'></sup> From now on, you do know him and have seen him.â€
<sup class="versenum">8 </sup>Philip<sup class="crossreference" value='(N)'></sup> said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.â€



Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



</sup>

 

[YosefHayim]

Jew for Jesus.

Are Jews for Jesus even torah-observant to begin with?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Jew for Jesus.

Are Jews for Jesus even torah-observant to begin with?

I can't speak for them.
I believe some do and some don't.
They don't get into it as other groups do because they are a missionary group.
Their statement of faith is the same as any born again christians.
Moshe Rosen the founder, received a degree at a Baptist seminary.
He was raise Orthodox Jew.

The question becomes "why" do they observe Torah?
Is it required for salvation or is it tradition or some other reason?

Jews for Jesus will tell you that as they witness to Jews, more gentiles get saved than Jews.
That's the way it goes.

 

[jasoncran]

messianic jews are torah observant as one can be as a believer. its not possible to follow the animal atonement as there is no temple and levites. on can do the torah and tzaddik with or without the temple.