No, I don’t. I believe He meant what He said. However, I also believe when he said for three days he would be in the “heart of the Earth”, He meant it to be understood (and it was at the time) to mean He was going to die and His body would spend three days in a tomb (which it did). He was NOT speaking of a geographical location such as the “center of the Earth” where either His body or His spirit went, yet that’s what you said it was. That’s my only debate with you here. I don’t believe in soul sleep any more than I do body sleep during the intermediate state.
My questions and DI’s was about the phrase “in the heart of the Earth”
It is a phrase that was
and should be understood similar to how we use the phrase “six feet under” to mean buried. Nothing more, nothing less. Is does not mean that Jesus went to the center of the Earth for three days spiritually speaking.
But regardless, your questions and response here does not answer the questions that were posed to you.
1. Do you believe that Hades can be empirically verified? If we sent a probe to the center of the earth, would there be people there?
2. How do you decide when a phrase is literal or figurative? And which parts are figurative.
No. Nor do I think either the thief or Jesus were located in the center of the Earth physically or spiritually for three days. You might notice that the Scriptures teach us exactly where Jesus’ body was for those three days (in an Earthen tomb) and it was not in the center of the Earth. And I"m perfectly fine for both Jesus' spirit and the saved theif's spirit being in "paradise" for three days. I can assure you, that being in the center of this planet for three days would be no paradise, however. Luckily, the Bible never says "paridise" is at the center of the Earth.
Eph 4 is NOT on the same subject of Matt 12:40 nor is it teaching where Jesus was for three days/three nights, geographically speaking or spiritually speaking. It’s not even the same subject, much less the same phrase.
“
The Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three night” equals
“
He descended to the lower regions of the Earth”. That’s atrocious exegesis and hermeneutics! Not to mention that you’ve missed the beautiful point Paul is making in Ephesians 4 if you think the phrase “
descended to the lower regions of the earth” is a reference to Jesus’ journeying to the center of the Earth for three days spiritually. Not to mention David would have a very, very hard time singing joyously about God spending three days in Hell.
Also for consistency, you must think David spent time there prior to His birth:
Ps 135:15
My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was created secretly,
and intricately woven
in the depths of the earth. [same Hebrew phrase!]
The Phrase Paul uses is clearly a reference to Jesus’ incarnation (His time living/breathing/teaching on Earth and yes dying too) as is Ps 68. Where as, the totally different phrase in Matt 12 is a reference to Jesus’ death and time in the tomb.
Wow, God Himself becoming a man (becoming babe in the womb actually as David was in his mother’s womb) then living a sin free life and even dying for us, now that’s Grace! was Paul’s point. And it was David’s (via Ps 68) truth as well. David sang about a God dwelling with man, a thousand years before Christ was born. He was not singing about Jesus going to the center of the Earth for three days.
“[Jesus]
Who is over all, and through all, and in all (even becoming human and dying) is victorious over
death (not fallen angels) and believers can be too.
You think Paul was using the ascension/descending of Jesus to teach us what Jesus was doing (preaching to fallen angels) and where He was at for those three days? I don’t.
I think Paul was fully aware of what Ps 68 meant and that the resurrection AND the ascension meant Jesus was/is God (Yahweh). Couldn't be more contrastive, I suppse.
Sing to God, sing praises to his name. Lift up a song to the rider on the clouds—his name is Yah—and rejoice before him. Ps 68:4)
Paul’s point was that Jesus was the God-Man and he used Psalm 68’s reference to God, Yahweh Himself,
riding on the clouds to prove that Jesus was God come to Earth (descended) and has now gone back (ascended). I.e. God first had to descend to Earth from above yet He ascended back to Heaven (riding on the clouds) to give gifts to all (including the gift of victory
over death). For there to even be an ascension (a
riding on the clouds, so to speak) in the first place, God (
Yahweh) had to be the one doing it. That’s one of the reasons Paul mentions Ps 68. Preaching to demons in Hell is NOT another reason. And if you go read Psalm 68 with an open mind you can see why it cannot be a reason that these phrases are equal to “in the heart of the Earth”:
Ps 68:
A mountain of God is the mountain of Bashan;
a mountain of many peaks is the mountain of Bashan.
[There are many gifts from God given to NT Christians, see Eph 4 for details.]
16 Why do you look with hostility, O many-peaked mountains?
This mountain God desires for his dwelling.
[The incarnation predicted! And BTW God desires a church of many members to dwell with, see Eph 4:11-16 for details.]
Yes, Yahweh will abide in it forever.
17 The chariots of God are twice ten thousand, with thousands doubled.
The Lord is among them at Sinai, distinctive in victory.
[The incarnation and Jesus’ victory over death! Who BTW is the only, and I mean only way to be victorious over death.]
18 You have ascended on high; you have led away captives.
You have received gifts from among humankind,
[Leading Demons away ‘captive’ is NOT in context here. But leading away people (
humankind) from the captivity of
Death (v20) sure is. David is singing about God coming to Earth, indeed becoming The Son of Man (in the form of Jesus) and defeating death (victorious over it at His resurrection and proclaimed truth at His ascension), some 1,000 years prior to Christ. Amazing! Don’t miss out on it so that you can teach that Jesus preached to angels in Hell which is (or was) located at the center of the Earth for three days/nights. Regardless, I don’t buy it. Why? Read verse 18 well:]
and even from the rebellious, so that Yah God may dwell there.
19 Blessed be the Lord. Daily he loads us with benefits,
the God of our salvation. Selah
[Get it? That
God may dwell there, is NOT talking about God dwelling in the center of the Earth for three days/nights nor was Paul talking about it when he referenced it, but you sure are.
Once or twice Paul points out in His epistles that Jesus is our salvation (the only way for the Jew or the Gentile), as I recall, to receive salvation from death. In Eph 4, He makes the point that Jesus is God via the texts within of Ps 68 and that God ‘
descended to Earth’ in Jesus!
God desires to dwell there! To take Paul’s mention of Ps 68 in Eph 4 as a teaching about demons (or fallen angels or whatever you call them) located in Hell (the ‘center of the Earth’, which is not even a phrase used in the Bible) and relate it to Matt 12:40 is an atrocious teaching (in my opinion) of either Matt 12 or Eph 4 or Ps 68.]
Oh, and BTW (God of our salvation, from what?):
20 Our God is a God of deliverances,
and to the Yahweh the Lord belong escapes from death.
[Except of course those that escape death on your view of what the LoF really means. You know, experiencing a life of eternal conscious torment, not a 2nd death of both the body and the soul. And that is NOT their eternal destruction (but rather a never ending process toward destruction, yet never actually making it to their actual destruction even though the Bible says they (the wicked) will be destroyed and perish in Ps 68 and all over the place (except of course your one verse that’s talking about the Devil and his angels.)]
