SSB

[Rose of Sharon]

Babbling again I see Henry.. :P


no Rose.. Goth is a mindset more than anything..
as to the darkness.. our world is full of it.. and Jesus uses
those like her to be a light in those dark places.

Okay.

 

[Lottie]

Salutations SSB.

Good to see another Christian Goth out on the main forums.

Arnold. I AM a eldergoth from the early 1980's I remember it all starting up. The Cure and Joy Division my....what of the other groups of the time, Christain death, btw Eva O is now a christian still noir but definatly a Christian; Alein Sex Fiend; Sisters of Mercy; The Southern Death Cult and on and on.
I do not recall goths of the time breaking down in tears they left that to the wannabe young uns.

Rose of Sharon unless you have seen the sheer contrast of light and dark you will not get the goths ability to speak openly of subjects that others think of as taboo or uncomfortable. We know that the world is a mess and we are not afraid to call evil evil. We are not miserable Christians we know who we serve love and honour.

Jesus is not a fluffbunny either. It is within pure light that you see shadows at their deepest.

Henry you can take a goth out of the outward appearance but it is a state of mind, a way of thinking.
I come across as Uber goth even in a formal work suit or a white frock.

 

[wigginsmum]

You rotten fibber, Lottie - you don't even own a white frock 8-) unless you mean the one with pink bows and daisies and lots of lace :

Jules (ex-Goth who also remembers the early 80's)

 

[Lottie]

Jules I spent the late 80's dressed in long white gowns based on medieval designs.

:

WITH all the make up.

Its these days you find me in serviceable black but I have been uber for so long most of the black has faded to grey. *goth joke*

 

[Rose of Sharon]

Rose of Sharon unless you have seen the sheer contrast of light and dark you will not get the goths ability to speak openly of subjects that others think of as taboo or uncomfortable. We know that the world is a mess and we are not afraid to call evil evil. We are not miserable Christians we know who we serve love and honour.

Jesus is not a fluffbunny either. It is within pure light that you see shadows at their deepest.



Lottie,

Umm, Why do the Goths have the ability to speak openly of taboo subjects and I don't? What makes you be able to see this sheer light and dark and I cannot?
Why do you say that Jesus is not a fluffbunny?
Why do we need to see the shadows at their deepest?
You speak in riddles.
I'm not a miserable Christian. I know exactly who I serve. God almighty whose name is Jesus.

Is there a web site you would recommend? I'm not understanding you.

:-?

 

[Rose of Sharon]

http://www.christiangoth.com/

Would this be about you Lottie?

 

[Rose of Sharon]

It seems to me that Goth is perverting the word of God.

 

[wigginsmum]

How so, Rose? Would you feel the same about, say, biker Christians reaching out to other bikers who need Jesus?

And no I don't think christiangoth.com is Lottie.

Jules

 

[Lottie]

Why do the Goths have the ability to speak openly of taboo subjects and I don't?

I said unless you have seen the sharp contrast of light and dark you will not understand why goths are able to speak of taboo subjects that they do.
I did not say you would not be able to. Many think they are obsessed with death because they will speak of it. Its mostly society that is scared of it and dress it up with lots of words anything but say death.
The same applies to other subjects too.

What makes you be able to see this sheer light and dark and I cannot?
I spoke of the contrast.

Why do you say that Jesus is not a fluffbunny?
Because Jesus is not a fluffbunny. *he does not think the world is made of candyfloss and pink merigues of cloying sweetness and niceness where everything in it only has our best interests at heart.*

Why do we need to see the shadows at their deepest?
Yu do not have to goths just do.

You speak in riddles.
No i come from a subculture. The use of language is differant plus the fact I may not be responding in the your countries semantic use of language. If you have no experiance of this sub-culture it will make some things hard to understand. Socialogists have produced studies on us.

I'm not a miserable Christian.

Look at what I posted, I said goths are not miserable christians. A miserable Christian pays too much heed of what the world thinks of them and looses focus on Christ.

Christian goth is but one of many sites. if you disagree with any parts of it take it up with the wenbmaster of the site yourself. If you have a sound biblical reason for objections I know they will be considered. The owner of that site knows of me but the site is not about me it is but one persons expression mine would be differant.

Now how do you think Goth is perverting the word of God?

 

[Rose of Sharon]

How so, Rose? Would you feel the same about, say, biker Christians reaching out to other bikers who need Jesus?

And no I don't think christiangoth.com is Lottie.

Jules

Hey Jules,

Where then in what catagory of goths would you place her? Just a christine like you are? Please, I'm not trying to be rude, I'm really wanting your answer.

And if a biker has really and truely repented and gave all to Christ ( as in obeyed Acts 2:38) they would be changed inside as well as outside. I don't beleive they would still act as they did before, wear what they wore before because being a biker, as we know, like the Hells Angels perhaps, represents the world. They should be representing Christ now. We as Chrisitians are to be ye separate from the world. Not be as the world.
2 Corithians 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
Isa 52:11

How can we really win souls to God and be just like those we're trying to win? No, the world wants a change. They want to SEE Christ, not someone just like them. That is no witness.

 

[wigginsmum]

Where then in what catagory of goths would you place her? Just a christine like you are?

Yes Lottie is a Christian, just like the rest of us - she's one I admire very much, and all the more so when I know her background and her life. She's a trophy of grace; if you knew her story you'd see someone radically changed by Jesus and being salt and light in dark places. She's reaching out to occultists, Pagans, goths etc and it's bearing fruit; she's going to the untouchables, those marginalised in society, and despised by middle-class 'decent' Christians. Don't be so quick to attack what the Lord is doing through her; instead let the Holy Spirit lead you into truth. She has a unique part to play, given to her by the Lord.

You may not feel you could reach out to people like that (despite the Biblical command to do so), but fortunately Jesus did, and Lottie is following in His footsteps in obedience to His leading. No compromise, no legalism from her - just plain unvarnished Biblical truth.

Consider Paul in Acts 17. He went into the Areopagus *where the Pagans were* and used the *principles of their own philosophy* as a startingpoint to sharing the gospel with them. Lottie does the same; we all do on Exwitch. We all have different mission fields, and those of us who've walked an occult path have genuine compassion for those still caught up in it (and of course not all non-Christian goths are into the occult by a long shot).

You're coming across as having a mindset of 'It doesn't fit my cosy little worldview so I'm going to shoot it down in flames.' You might want to consider your own shortcomings before you point the finger and act like a Pharisee. God is really not interested in clothing unless it's indecent or unwashed. Some of us may wear black, leather, velvet, whatever, but what really counts is our robe of righteousness given to us by Jesus.

Now I've been fairly blunt here - it hurts me to see a friend attacked, and I WILL defend her against attackers who have nothing better to do. Go away and talk to Jesus about it all.

Jules

 

[Rose of Sharon]

http://www.christiangoth.com/gothview.html


Why do I beleive that Goth is perverting the word of God?

This overview of " What is Christian Goth" does not in any way tell of salvation in the biblical sense. How were you saved?

This is completely some mans/womans thoughts , nothing biblical.

Oh I saw some scriptures, but this gothic paganistic view would have Jesus as such and there is nothing of the kind in the word of God. There was and is nothing of darkness about Jesus. Jesus is God Almighty who is complete spirit and the light of the world.

Taken from the web site:

In remembrance of me

For centuries, black has had its connotations in one form or another. Not because it is uncommon by any means, but because it strikes chords of the unknown. Black has symbolized death, deity, mourning, humility, mystery, and evil. People at a funeral wear black in remembrance of the deceased. We are commanded in the book to perform the communion in order to remember Christ's death until his return. Instead of doing it in church as a blank ceremony once every blue moon, why not live the remembrance?


This is ridiculous. No where in the word does it say anything about wearing black. This is mere symbolism on the goths part. This is ritual and pagan. The word of God speaks of wearing modest apparral, not this crazy and ungodly attire that the Goths do wear. God is not pleased with that. These pants that these dudes are always having to pull up for fear of falling off and the low cut tops on the gals, the thick make-up, which is considered harotry in Gods eyes. The purple dyed hair, the symbolism of the 5 point pentegrams that points to witchcraft.
No way is this goth religion of God. You can tell folks it is till the cows come home , but it is a lie from the pits of Hell.
If anyone else would admit it on here, they should tell you too.

We take communion in a very humble, serious and reverent attitude towards God. We do not taint it with pagan rituals . God will not accept your communion in this manner.
God wants us to take communion for the importance of his death and ressurection till he comes for his church in the rapture. It is a beautiful thing to do, not something to be sullied by comparing it to wearing black, mystery and evil. Gothic has naught to do with Jesus.
Jesus is alive! Not a shadowy God, But the everlasting father, the Prince of Peace, The great I'am.

Christs death is about his dying for our sins and giving us the gift of salvation , that I have yet to see spoken of. What is the goths plan of salvation? As in the bible? What? Do you kneel at a church altar and repent ?


[quote:a2fba]By Pastor Ed Carter ;

I jokingly say that my dear friend Chase sired me to the "dark side,"

I found solace in the dark sounds of Love and Rockets and Bauhaus. In the Cure, I found honesty of emotion, something I desperately needed.

When I became "saved" I noticed that while I had the "light of the world" in my life, I was still an outsider.

Now I am a Shadow Dweller, lurking with a candle, holding it out to others, sharing the light and the love of God to those who are also living in the shadows.

[/quote:a2fba]



This is not anything to do with the word of God. How was he saved?
If he was really saved, why could he not recognize that all true saved christians are not of this world. He would be a creature in Christ and separate from the world. What was he an outsider to? The Goths?

Shadow dweller? I'm sorry, but this is not of God.

 

[wigginsmum]

I haven't read the site indepth; it's nothing to do with me, and I'm no longer a goth (bit difficult being a goth and working for an investment bank!)

Here's how I was saved:

Testimony

Now let's see ... you've found a site unconnected to anyone here and are desperately trying to make it apply to us. Does anyone here see the problem with this reasoning?

How were you saved?

Jules

 

[Rose of Sharon]

Where then in what catagory of goths would you place her? Just a christine like you are?

Yes Lottie is a Christian, just like the rest of us - she's one I admire very much, and all the more so when I know her background and her life. She's a trophy of grace; if you knew her story you'd see someone radically changed by Jesus and being salt and light in dark places. She's reaching out to occultists, Pagans, goths etc and it's bearing fruit; she's going to the untouchables, those marginalised in society, and despised by middle-class 'decent' Christians. Don't be so quick to attack what the Lord is doing through her; instead let the Holy Spirit lead you into truth. She has a unique part to play, given to her by the Lord.

You may not feel you could reach out to people like that (despite the Biblical command to do so), but fortunately Jesus did, and Lottie is following in His footsteps in obedience to His leading. No compromise, no legalism from her - just plain unvarnished Biblical truth.

Consider Paul in Acts 17. He went into the Areopagus *where the Pagans were* and used the *principles of their own philosophy* as a startingpoint to sharing the gospel with them. Lottie does the same; we all do on Exwitch. We all have different mission fields, and those of us who've walked an occult path have genuine compassion for those still caught up in it (and of course not all non-Christian goths are into the occult by a long shot).

You're coming across as having a mindset of 'It doesn't fit my cosy little worldview so I'm going to shoot it down in flames.' You might want to consider your own shortcomings before you point the finger and act like a Pharisee. God is really not interested in clothing unless it's indecent or unwashed. Some of us may wear black, leather, velvet, whatever, but what really counts is our robe of righteousness given to us by Jesus.

Now I've been fairly blunt here - it hurts me to see a friend attacked, and I WILL defend her against attackers who have nothing better to do. Go away and talk to Jesus about it all.

Jules

I'm not attacking anyone. I'm attacking a religion that is false and damaging. And I will not go away, thank you. YOU go and talk to Jesus about it. You say you have been delivered from Witchcraft, well, it's amazing that you can't see the same path in this Goth pagan religion. You should know how the devil is deceptive.
I can also go to the untouchables and I have and have witnessed about God and what he can do for a soul. I have given the plan of salvation and showed them in the word . And I have seen some deleivered .To have one go to another and try to give the gospel being in the same mindset as to whom they are witnessing to is contradictorial and unfruitful.
There is no mindset here on my part, just the cleanness and the holiness of God that we as Christians should have in our lives. This Pagan Goth is not of God, it is not holy. It is a deception from Satan.

God IS concerned about what we wear. See 1 Tim. 2:9-10. This does not have goth attire in mind.
God even speaks about men having long hair, which is contrary .
The goths clothing line is very indecent. Have you looked at it ?

I'am not a mean spirited person, far from it and I have my own opinion, just as you do. But Goth is not Godly. I have many shortcomings, but what do they have to do with the true gospel of Christ here in which the goth do not seem to even teach!
So, go ahead and shoot whatever down in flames, doesn't bother me in the least.

God bless

 

[Lottie]

Christiangoth is not an outreach site it is a site for christiangoths. It is one of the main portals into a fellowship within a subculture just as CMA is for Christian bikers whereas God Squad reaches out to backpatch bikers.

because the site assumes you are a Christian it does not detail how to get saved as it is assumed that is 101 level. hence the opening banner that states this.

Where Jesus is Lord & being a Christian comes first & a Goth second.

Just in case anyone has not quite got it there is a direct link from the main page here. http://www.christian-thinktank.com/1ststep.html you must have missed it.
Or even here http://www.christiangoth.com/showmetheway.html
You have not visted any goth forums were scripture is hotly debated considered and weighed as the bearans did. Understand this christiangoth takes its imput from the many who use the site and it is quickly changed if anything is seen in light to be wrong.

You have also assumed goths are somehow all pagans Not so they are more pagan than the rest of society.
In Christ there is no darkness true but careful darkness in the bible is a spiritual term not a physical.
Black is only a colour it is not the spiritual darness the bible warns against.
Christ is the firstborn of the dead to goths. Not the undead FIRSTBORN.

Goths wear more than black but to be honest first thing in the morning black is a lot easier to just grab and throw on. So what I wear is ungodly...strange the puritans found it good enough to wear. I wear more than most christians in church . Have you got the correct group in your dress summary. Yu sure you have not been looking at spookykids and thinking thats goth? I have not seen any goth in a club having to pull his trousers back up and its hard to tell if a top is low cut or not due to the layering of clothes.

The make up is a mask worn to watch the world through. Have you any idea how hard it is to get purple hair dye to take? How is that anymore wrong than those who bleach and get haircuts elsewhere?

Most goths wear crosses, They might wear pents but few wear them as outward signs of their spiritual being.

Goth is NOT a religion it is a sub-culture.

Strange thing its because of attitudes like this that most christian goths are choosey which fellowships they join. Most prefer those who consider what your heart is matters more than your clothes.

You have taken one person pov and pasted it broadly. Should I then do the same?
Communion is not a thing to be lightly undertook for it has a deeply spiritual dimension. I do not have a problem sharing communion with those wearing suits or sunday dresses.
I fell before the cross and died.

How can yu understand Ed carter, he is writing to those in the sub-culture not the body.
I know what he means by going t the shadows and taking light. I know what it feel slike to be there and how loathe Christians are to leave their comfort zone and come and speak to such as I was.
The church rejects many that Christ calls to himself because it make sthem feel uncomfortable. An example of this mentality would be the church elders discussing a greater welcomming of the larger community to the church premises but this frigtening some who voted against it because 'drug addicts will come and we cannot have drug addicts here'

Christ asks me to honour God and to love my neighbours whosoever that neighbour may be.

I am your neighbour .

 

[Rose of Sharon]

I haven't read the site indepth; it's nothing to do with me, and I'm no longer a goth (bit difficult being a goth and working for an investment bank!)

Here's how I was saved:

Testimony

Now let's see ... you've found a site unconnected to anyone here and are desperately trying to make it apply to us. Does anyone here see the problem with this reasoning?

How were you saved?

Jules

I've already asked for a site and Lottie did not give me one.
Do you know of one?
Theres nothing wrong with my reasoning Jules. I'm trying to understand this pagan religion here.

I've read your testimony already and according to the word of God there is more to do to be saved. You repented , but still need to be converted. Please don't be offended, I'm not meaning to do that. If someone told me this, I'd sure check it out.

Peter said in Acts 2:37-39 ;
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.


We need to repent, turn away from our sins, ask God to forgive us, be baptized in Jesus name, then invite God into our hearts, then we need to seek for his spirit to come inside our heart, which is called the Holyghost and when that happens we are baptized with the Holyghost ( Gods spirit) and the way we'll know that we have received the spirit of God is the evidence of other tongues.
John 3:5 says we must be born again of the water and of the spirit.

Now, I know you will flat disagree with me because you know you have been saved, even without receiving the spirit of God, but I'am commanded in Matthew 28:19 to preach the gospel and tell the .... rest of the story , so to speak. There is more then just a feeling in your heart that you've been saved.

I have been baptized in Jesus name, not the titles, Father, Son and Holyghost, for the titles have no power, only Jesus name does.
I have received the gift of the Holyghost as they did on the day of Pentecost and as Peter preached . And I spoke in tongues as evidence that I have received the spirit of God.
My life has been changed. I was not into witchcraft, I was not a drug abuser, I was an alcholic, I smoked cigarrettes, I committed adultry and fornication. God delivered me. I was just as bad as a murderer.

Now, many folks beleive this is all not necessary for today, but if God is still giving out this gift of the Holyghost and Peter said it is what we must do to be saved, then I want all of what is there for me and I don't want to take the chance of missing heaven because I did not obey Gods word.


God bless

 

[wigginsmum]

To be converted means to turn to God. To be born again; when the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and we truly repent, our sin nature is put to death and Christ lives in us. He's done that for me, thanks to His grace.

I was baptised in water in accordance with Jesus's command, I was baptised with the Holy Spirit a short time later, speak in tongues and move in some of the other gifts of the Spirit as He wills. If I had to label myself, I'd say I'm evangelical and charismatic. Is this the bit where you say only Oneness people are saved?

Jules

 

[Vic C.]

I've read your testimony already and according to the word of God there is more to do to be saved. You repented , but still need to be converted. Please don't be offended, I'm not meaning to do that. If someone told me this, I'd sure check it out.

Rose, I will ask you very kindly not to even suggest someone here IS NOT saved because they do not conform to your doctrine of salvation. We can and will come at youl...with scripture saying your way to salvation is not a requirement. We can even use the words of the Lord if you want, but I'll start with Paul.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[Homeskillet]

Not to mention...............

Rule 2 - No Flaming:
You will not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. This will include misquoting another member out of context. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself. This includes implied accusations that another member is not a Christian.

 

[Rose of Sharon]

Not to mention...............

Rule 2 - No Flaming:
You will not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. This will include misquoting another member out of context. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself. This includes implied accusations that another member is not a Christian.

I have NOT attacked anyone person here.