Sticking up for our Catholic Brethren

[cyberjosh]

I come here now to stand as a voice of reason and tolerance amidst any temptation to shun our Catholic Brethren because of doctrinal differences. We Protestants may not agree with our Catholic Brethren in many things but we should have confidence that if they believe in Christ Jesus as Lord and follow him with all their hearts that we have a common goal and that we should be as "one mind" in our pursuit of the Kingdom of God and his righteousness.

We may disagree on transsubstantiation, but we would all agree that our source and essence of eternal life is Jesus Christ by his sacrificial blood as conveyed to us by the Holy Spirit.

We may disagree about praying to/with Mary, but we would all agree that we can pray directly to Jesus and God the Father, coming boldly before the throne of grace.

We may disagree about observing Mass, but we would all agree that the Word of God says, "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ" (Colossians 2:16-17) - and "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord" (Romans 14:5-6).

Thus let us strive towards mutual edification and being built up as living stones for God to build his temple and bride at the revealing of Christ in the end.


"Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you." (2 Corinthians 13:11)


God Bless,

~Josh

 

[golfjack]

reply

Josh, You have made some valid points. Like you I do not believe in Cathoilic Thelogy. My main concern is one's salvation. So, I propose that if any Catholic or anyone for that matter confess this with me: I repent of my sins, I ask you Jesus to come into my heart, I make You my Lord and Savior. If one is sincere, this shouldn't be hard to do. Just tell us Evanglicals if you made this confession or if you do not want to. Then, at least I am convinced that you are Born Again and been put into the Family of God. Then, I myself will not bother you guys no more by attacking you. But, I do wish you would enter into a Bible Based Church.



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[Drew]

I come here now to stand as a voice of reason and tolerance amidst any temptation to shun our Catholic Brethren because of doctrinal differences.

Right on
Amen
etc.

 

[francisdesales]

Re: reply

Thanks for your post, Josh. I realize that this will probably mark you negatively in future conversations with others...

Josh, You have made some valid points. Like you I do not believe in Cathoilic Thelogy. My main concern is one's salvation. So, I propose that if any Catholic or anyone for that matter confess this with me: I repent of my sins, I ask you Jesus to come into my heart, I make You my Lord and Savior.

As you may remeber, Golfjack, we do that at every Mass, although I admit that the sincerity of that proclamation is dependent upon the individual.

I myself will not bother you guys no more by attacking you. But, I do wish you would enter into a Bible Based Church.

Couldn't resist a parting shot, now, could you, Golfjack...

Regards

 

[cyberjosh]

Thanks for your post, Josh. I realize that this will probably mark you negatively in future conversations with others...

Bring it on. 8-)

~Josh

 

[golfjack]

reply

Thanks Fran. I do remember the Apostles Creed, but saying that never saved me because it was only an intellectuual reception of Christ, but the Bible says that we are to believe with a whole heart, and not just with our minds. Now, to believe with the heart means we unequivecally trust what Jesus did on the cross, and nothing else.

I would feel better about your salvation if you repeat what I said and tell people here that you indeed did confess Jesus and trust Jesus with all your heart. Now, trusting means that you believe you will go to heaven and not just hope. Are you willing to do that?



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[francisdesales]

Re: reply

Thanks Fran. I do remember the Apostles Creed, but saying that never saved me because it was only an intellectuual reception of Christ, but the Bible says that we are to believe with a whole heart, and not just with our minds. Now, to believe with the heart means we unequivecally trust what Jesus did on the cross, and nothing else.

WHAT???

No mention of body, soul and spirit? :P

Kidding. I presume you meant the Nicene Creed, not the Apostles Creed.

I think "believing with the heart" is more than just trusting in what Jesus did on the cross.

It calls for CONVERSION of our way of life. If one claims to trust in the cross, but does not make changes in their life, they have not repented and converted to Christ yet. That is why "works" is so important and an integral part of salvation. Faith that Jesus died on the cross, by your definition, is not enough - even the devil has faith in that.

Yes, we are called to move beyond intellectual belief. That is why I wrote that I couldn't answer for a person's own proclamation and their level of committment to Christ. Saying it is one thing. Doing it is another (Mat 7:21).

I would feel better about your salvation if you repeat what I said and tell people here that you indeed did confess Jesus and trust Jesus with all your heart. Now, trusting means that you believe you will go to heaven and not just hope. Are you willing to do that?

Of course I confess that Jesus died on the cross and I trust Jesus with my whole heart. However, I can't "intellectually trust" my way to heaven. My trust in Christ will be dependent ALSO on what I DO, not just what I type here. If we trust in Christ, we will make the necessary changes to our lives.

Regards

 

[golfjack]

reply

Fran. From what you said you are putting your faith in yourself instead of God. I perceive that you are trusting in a seven step program to save you. I guess that's the sacraments.

If we have just been taught that our sins are forgiven and that we will remain justified only if we walk carefully before God, and we have never been taugyht that the nature and substance of God is within our spirits, then sin and Satan will continue to reign over us.

But when we know that the man on the inside, the real man, has been born again and is a new self in Christ Jesus, then we will rule and reign over Satan. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: Because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world ( 1 John 4:4).



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[Solo]

I come here now to stand as a voice of reason and tolerance amidst any temptation to shun our Catholic Brethren because of doctrinal differences. We Protestants may not agree with our Catholic Brethren in many things but we should have confidence that if they believe in Christ Jesus as Lord and follow him with all their hearts that we have a common goal and that we should be as "one mind" in our pursuit of the Kingdom of God and his righteousness.

We may disagree on transsubstantiation, but we would all agree that our source and essence of eternal life is Jesus Christ by his sacrificial blood as conveyed to us by the Holy Spirit.

We may disagree about praying to/with Mary, but we would all agree that we can pray directly to Jesus and God the Father, coming boldly before the throne of grace.

We may disagree about observing Mass, but we would all agree that the Word of God says, "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ" (Colossians 2:16-17) - and "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord" (Romans 14:5-6).

Thus let us strive towards mutual edification and being built up as living stones for God to build his temple and bride at the revealing of Christ in the end.


"Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you." (2 Corinthians 13:11)


God Bless,

~Josh

Are they Catholic brethren because they are Roman Catholic or are they Catholic brethren because they have been born again. Which Roman Catholics have been born again? Are they born again by being Roman Catholics or because they at one time believed the Word of God?

 

[cyberjosh]

Are they Catholic brethren because they are Roman Catholic or are they Catholic brethren because they have been born again.

The answer should be obvious. Anyone we can call a brother or sister is a brother or sister in Christ, not because you attend a Church or subscribe to a philosophy.

Which Roman Catholics have been born again?

Which Protestants have been born again?

"You shall know them by their fruits." (Matthew 7:16)

Are they born again by being Roman Catholics or because they at one time believed the Word of God?

I refer to those who sincerely believed, not those who just attend the Catholic Church.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Solo]

I refer to those who sincerely believed, not those who just attend the Catholic Church.

God Bless,

~Josh

Great! Then let us talk about the Roman Catholic teachings that are keeping individuals from becoming born again believers by propagating a dogma of false teachings to keep them in a state of bondage, as opposed to liberty in Christ Jesus.

What teachings of Roman Catholicism so you see that are false teachings concerning the salvation offered to all through Jesus Christ? In other words, what gospel is being perpetrated upon the members of the Roman Catholic church that is contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

 

[golfjack]

reply

The Holy Spirit is the one Who convicts and the Holy Spirit is the one who testifies that we are saved period. It seems to me that some are trying to figure out God's Word by their intellect and have replaced faith with their intellect. Faith is the only thing that pleases God.



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

I come here now to stand as a voice of reason and tolerance amidst any temptation to shun our Catholic Brethren because of doctrinal differences. We Protestants may not agree with our Catholic Brethren in many things but we should have confidence that if they believe in Christ Jesus as Lord

and I might add - Mary, who is equal to Christ Our Lord, The saints, the Congregation of Papal Authority, the history and tradition of the only true church (RC), Peter who founded the Church, blah, blah, blah on and on!

 

[cyberjosh]

Great! Then let us talk about the Roman Catholic teachings that are keeping individuals from becoming born again believers by propagating a dogma of false teachings to keep them in a state of bondage, as opposed to liberty in Christ Jesus.

I really don't want to get into a debate in this thread. Are we lacking of any Catholicism threads? I think not.

However let me tell you a story. I was in Chicago for my birthday a couple years ago and one day we were at the Science Museum downtown. As we were going to leave we noticed that we might need to get home faster (we walked there since our hotel was only like a mile away - and we were sight seeing anyway) so we were calling some people on our cell phones telling them we might be a little late when a man stepped up to me and said, "Hey, I just called a taxi for you." My Mom looks at him and thanked him, because we couldn't hire taxi to save our life 'cause we know nothing about big cities per se. Anyways, I got to talk to the nice man for about 10 minutes while waiting for the taxi and I found out the man was Catholic. At some point in the discussion, once we got past small talk (I wanted to get to know him better before I just started all out talking to him) I asked a simple and rather innocent question, "I've heard about alot of problems and schism in the Catholic Church, what's going on? I hear some of the leadership is currupt." Surprisingly he seemed to warm up to it and he nodded with an empathetic look saying yes, that there were problems in the Church and that there were some of the people who really did love Jesus to the point of wanting to move beyond what the current administration was doing. I talked with him a little further and he confirmed that there was a schism in the Church that the people wanted to petition that the administration change how they do things but that they probably wouldn't. We talked about many other things but he seemed very sincere and he answered all my questions.


But my point is, if you want to blame anything blame the administration of the Church, those who are in authority. The people are helpless to change the heirarchy if the administration wont listen. Now I know he may have spoken for a minority of Catholics (who wanted change), but for all I know it was a large minority. Yes, I share your concerns about how the Catholic Church does things. But I wasn't talking about the Catholic Church in my OP, I was talking about inidividuals in the congregation who believe that Jesus died for their sins, have repented, and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior (which consequently mean following after him) - thus I was speaking of true brethren in Christ, not the external church, not the administration but those who are among the universal body of Saints.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Solo]

I really don't want to get into a debate in this thread. Are we lacking of any Catholicism threads? I think not.

However let me tell you a story. I was in Chicago for my birthday a couple years ago and one day we were at the Science Museum downtown. As we were going to leave we noticed that we might need to get home faster (we walked there since our hotel was only like a mile away - and we were sight seeing anyway) so we were calling some people on our cell phones telling them we might be a little late when a man stepped up to me and said, "Hey, I just called a taxi for you." My Mom looks at him and thanked him, because we couldn't hire taxi to save our life 'cause we know nothing about big cities per se. Anyways, I got to talk to the nice man for about 10 minutes while waiting for the taxi and I found out the man was Catholic. At some point in the discussion, once we got past small talk (I wanted to get to know him better before I just started all out talking to him) I asked a simple and rather innocent question, "I've heard about alot of problems and schism in the Catholic Church, what's going on? I hear some of the leadership is currupt." Surprisingly he seemed to warm up to it and he nodded with an empathetic look saying yes, that there were problems in the Church and that there were some of the people who really did love Jesus to the point of wanting to move beyond what the current administration was doing. I talked with him a little further and he confirmed that there was a schism in the Church that the people wanted to petition that the administration change how they do things but that they probably wouldn't. We talked about many other things but he seemed very sincere and he answered all my questions.


But my point is, if you want to blame anything blame the administration of the Church, those who are in authority. The people are helpless to change the heirarchy if the administration wont listen. Now I know he may have spoken for a minority of Catholics (who wanted change), but for all I know it was a large minority. Yes, I share your concerns about how the Catholic Church does things. But I wasn't talking about the Catholic Church in my OP, I was talking about inidividuals in the congregation who believe that Jesus died for their sins, have repented, and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior (which consequently mean following after him) - thus I was speaking of true brethren in Christ, not the external church, not the administration but those who are among the universal body of Saints.

God Bless,

~Josh

Josh,
You will not find anywhere in my posts where I have condemned Roman Catholics, but you will find that I am adamantly against the false teachings of Roman Catholicism that are leading people straight to hell.

I have a dear friend who I have know since I was eighteen years old. She is a staunch Roman Catholic, and has been married for over 30 years to a Roman Catholic (of course). They both used to teach in their local parish. I had not seen or talked with this fine lady in approximately 15 years, and had never met her family, so when I was in town for my mothers funeral I drove up to the city to see her. I had a fine visit with her and her husband, met her children, had a fine meal, and was about to leave when she asked me to come into the living room to speak with her privately. She asked her husband if that was alright and he answered in the affirmative. She began to relate to me how I had been such an important person in her life, and that at major points in her life I had just showed up. She continued that she was beside herself all day fixing the meal, cleaning the house, getting ready for my visit that night, when all she could do was cry and wonder why I was there after all these years. Then she stopped, with tears streaming down her face and spoke softly to me, saying that she knew why I was there. She said that she had a big vacant area within her that she knew could only be filled by Jesus Christ, but she did not know how to fill it. I shared the Gospel of Jesus Christ with her, and she prayed for forgiveness and believed that very night. I had been praying for her salvation as the Lord gave me remembrance of her, and He let me be there when she believed. I was ecstatic.

There are many, many people in the Roman Catholic religion that are not saved; and the salvation message that is given to them is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There are also many, many people in the "protestant" religions that are not saved and are going to hell as well. I wonder who the harlots are of the mother of harlots?

I lived in Chicago for a few years and enjoyed my time there. I still have many friends, and will be there again in a couple of weeks. Many Roman Catholics attended the non-denominational church of Bill Hybels, Willow Creek. I lived up the road from that church and attended it while living there. I prefer Southern Baptist Churches with a smaller community of believers because it is easy to get lost in such a large church, but it was nice while I was there.
Michael

 

[jgredline]

Michael
What a great and awsome testimony...Praise God.............
There is a lady named Ann (not her real name as she guest this site from time to time) that attends my Sunday School now....Prior the only time she was able to hear the Gospel message was at school functions...and she too was trapped in the catholic church...One day in a conversation with my wife over Music (my wife loves Christian music ) ''ann'' explained to her that her priest is against music and is not allowed by the church...Anyway, through the ministry of the Holy Spirit through my wife, she became born again and was followed by her husband and children being born again praise God....

The sad thing here is that, she did indeed get ex communicated by her very catholic family...I mean, they will have nothing to do with her entire family....

True stories like this are found through out history....
the root of catholic religion is false and evil....

No place has the current group of leadership to my knowledge , renounced the indulgences that the catholic church sold to people...Perhaps someone can point me to where this practice was condemned by catholic clergy....

There is hope however, because I believe the last two popes to be as close to being Christ followers as there has been in the CC.....

Do I believe there are born again catholics? Yes, with out a doubt...
But I believe the percentage to be in the single digits......

Too many put mary and the saints above God.....
That in itself is proof of their fruit, that they not know Jesus.....
Those are folks who worship the created instead of the creator.....

Michael and Jack are completely right when he says the catholic church are leading folks straight to hell.....

Josh mentioned the verse ''you shall know them by their fruits''

I agree....What kind of fruit is the catholic church putting out?....
History suggest, rotten to the core fruit......

What about individual catholics? This is a tough one to answer...
''Ann'' has always shown good fruit, even when she was not born again? How and why? Because she was ''working for her salvation''

Now that she is born again, she is still showing good fruit, but with Joy in her heart...Praise God....

 

[golfjack]

reply

Great post Javier and Solo. Maybe if we show love to these Catholic's we will see many coming to Christ. Like Solo said, We must love people but bring out the errors of the Catholic Church as an Institution. Good job, My Brothers in Christ.


May God bless, Golfjack

 

[jgredline]

Bring it on. 8-)

~Josh

Josh
This is a ridiculas statement...You should really think about what your saying?
It appears you have been caught up by all the lies.... :o

 

[Veritas]

We must love people but bring out the errors of the Catholic Church as an Institution.

I agree. And I appreciate the illustration of this in the testimonies by Javier and Michael. I hope the Catholics here realize that we love you and we are sincerely worried for you (and others) who might be trapped and deceived by the unbiblical doctrines and traditions in the institution of the Catholic Church. I hope you do know Jesus! You are in our prayers.

 

[cyberjosh]

you will find that I am adamantly against the false teachings of Roman Catholicism that are leading people straight to hell.

Then we are in the same boat.

God Bless,

~Josh