https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Strengthening families through biblical principles.
Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.
Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
Oats said:How can freewill and predestination both exist?
I have some clue...
LaMont Cranston said:Awhile back, I asked him about his take on free will, and he came back with a very interesting answer that works pretty well for me. He said that we have free will most of the time, but God has sort of a "wild card" that he can play. He said that would explain what happened to Saul of Tarses/Paul on the road to Damascus to torture more Christians.
HisSheep said:This new spirit, which we cannot command, compels us to choose God. So we do actually “choose God†in a manner of speaking. But we would not do so, unless moved by the Spirit. Calvinists believe that the Spirit cannot be denied. Theologians call this “effectual callingâ€.
The Bible is pretty clear about this, Teach. We are all entirely bad. We all fully deserve Hell. There is no one that does good, no one who seeks God. Nope, not one. Paul reiterated these OT points in Romans 3:Teach said:However,free will also involves the possibility that we, like a third of the angels, decide to follow ourselves and our own selfish ways and thus reject God.
… another “robot†analogy to try to discredit the doctrine of grace… Besides, those bound for destruction won’t pray. They don’t want salvation. They don’t fear God.Teach said:Predestination is in Christ alone and cannot be preset or predetermined without Christ if not you can throw free will out the window and call yourself R2D2 and pray your not predetermined to go to hell. But then your prayers wouldn't mean anything, or change anything because it's all preset anyway.
It makes perfect sense. We are so corrupt that we can not choose Christ. Once we believe, our will will improve, but in order to begin that work in us, Christ chooses us.Teach said:This quote from HisSheep is what I'm talking about. It's the type of thinking I used to espouse which never really made sense. God "compels" us to choose yet we actually choose God in a manner of speaking.HisSheep said:This new spirit, which we cannot command, compels us to choose God. So we do actually “choose God†in a manner of speaking. But we would not do so, unless moved by the Spirit. Calvinists believe that the Spirit cannot be denied. Theologians call this “effectual callingâ€.
There’s nothing wishy-washy here. Calvin wasn’t wishy washy either. You should really read his “Institutes.†You should refrain from commenting on his work until you have read it. Calvinists don’t believe that people have no free will. They believe that the human will is entirely bad (the Adam nature). Our will can be improved, but only by the intervention of God. To do this, the Spirit takes up residence within a man, and compels him to believe. Regeneration has begun. The rest of the believer’s life is like a training program in which our (free) will is conformed to that of God.Teach said:You don't have free will yet you do but really in a manner speaking you don't. This type of rhetoric is meant not to offend the listener while still pressing its point. Instead of outrightly saying: "You have no free will." period. Calvinists say: You don't, but you do, but then you don't. It's wishy washy and makes no sense.
HisSheep said:The Bible is pretty clear about this, Teach. We are all entirely bad. We all fully deserve Hell. There is no one that does good, no one who seeks God. Nope, not one. Paul reiterated these OT points in Romans 3:Teach said:However,free will also involves the possibility that we, like a third of the angels, decide to follow ourselves and our own selfish ways and thus reject God.
HisSheep said:No one chooses God unless they are first enabled by the Father. (John 6:65) This aptitude for faith is solely the work of God the Father. In this way faith is the “free gift of Godâ€. (Eph 2:8) We have no role in our justification: It is the sole work of Christ. Our work doesn’t begin until our sanctification begins, immediately following our justification. Once we believe, then we want righteousness; but not until then.
HisSheep said:… another “robot†analogy to try to discredit the doctrine of grace… Besides, those bound for destruction won’t pray. They don’t want salvation. They don’t fear God.
HisSheep said:Ask yourself, which came first, your choice or your faith? Really... Think about it. Which came first? You must be taking some credit for your own salvation if you think you had anything to do with it. Apparently, Jesus gave you a hand up. Me, He saved. In my case, He did all the work and I give Him all the glory. He didn’t just give me an opportunity to save myself. He didn’t merely extend a hand that I could grab if I wanted to. He rescued me from certain destruction and I owe Him my life. By claiming a role in your salvation you are diminishing the grace of God:
HisSheep said:There’s nothing wishy-washy here. Calvin wasn’t wishy washy either. You should really read his “Institutes.†You should refrain from commenting on his work until you have read it. Calvinists don’t believe that people have no free will. They believe that the human will is entirely bad (the Adam nature). Our will can be improved, but only by the intervention of God. To do this, the Spirit takes up residence within a man, and compels him to believe. Regeneration has begun. The rest of the believer’s life is like a training program in which our (free) will is conformed to that of God.
HisSheep said:The first step must be taken by God. That’s all. Otherwise, God would be our elect, instead of us being His elect.
For the record, I disagree with Calvin on infant baptism.
LaMont Cranston said:I have some serious issues with some of the things that HisSheep wrote, particularly what he said about how we are all entirely bad, we all fully deserve Hell and there is no one who does good.